Apparently, a 15 year-old boy murdered his younger adopted siblings in Utah. Sad enough.

But get this part:

"The 15-year-old boy once ran away from home, and in that incident, the family apparently received assistance from a church leader, the sheriff added.

"'On that one prior time, he did a runaway, and we located him, so we don't have a longstanding history file on him,' Richardson said.

"The family 'did an intervention through their ecclesiastic leadership, and as far as anything through law enforcement or the state, it's my understanding that they didn't' do any more, Richardson said."

Hard to say if anything different would have happened had there been professional intervention. I'm guessing there wasn't in this case, as I'm guessing the power of discernment led the bishop to not see deep underlying issues.

How tragic.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/us/utah-brothers-slain/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2013 03:27PM by left4good.

When will mormons learn that bishops are NOT competent to counsel them or their children about anything?

+ infinity

+1 these guys are not prepared in anyway to handle these things!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2013 03:23PM by sparrow.

Seems like Utah Mormons try to act like their own little sovereign entity in this country, kind of like the Catholic's Vatican City.

More harm than good.

Sorry that happened to this kid and his family.

My husband and I have been discussing this over the past few days, not the double homocide, but the fact that thousand of people probably go to their bishops for "mental help/guidance". They are walking a fine line in trying to be more than they are. It's scary to think how many mentally Ill people may think the bishop is a replacement to licensed drs.

And its not fair to the poor bishops either. Every bishop has those two to three members in their ward that constantly hound them with all kinds of special problems, when what they really need is a therapist.

What every competent professional knows - whether medical doctor or therapist - is to recognize when she/he is out of her/his depth with a patient or client, and then to refer that person to someone who is in a better position to help.

Every "poor bishop" needs to refer out to competent professionals those "that constantly hound them with all kinds of special problems."

When they don't refer out, these "poor bishops" need condemnation and liability for the harm that they contribute to.

I agree Ragnar, I wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple situations where a bishop should be held liable for giving dangerous advice instead of directing a ward member to an appropriate Dr/psychologist etc. They need to be held responsible if/when they cross the line and take on the role of "Dr" without the training. If I went and set up shop somewhere claiming I could give people medical advice you can bet I'd be in deep sh**.

I think there is a very good chance it might be different if the kid had had professional intervention. And I love the way they say "ecclesiastical leader." It's Utah, they can say "Bishop" and everyone knows what they're talking about. But then it highlights the fact that most bishops are total idiots, and have absolutely ZERO training in dealing with something like this.

I have no clue if those kids were adopted through LDS family services, but I think there's a good chance. The only screening LDSFS does is make sure the people have a temple recommend. How many people do you know with temple recommends who are horrible parents and should have their own kids taken away? But they were able to adopt three kids and their idea of getting help for their kids is taking them to the bishop.

I thank God every day that when my daughter decided to place a baby for adoption, she listened to the bishop tell her about the church adoption plan and then politely said "no thanks," and my birthson has a fantastic family and didn't get thrown to the wolves.

MY GOODNESS! I googled "patriarchal blessing generator" just for a lark, found this site and I am absolutely aghast at what goes on in this religion! My family was at best, half-hearted Mormons and only for a few years. I honestly had no idea that this sort of pure negligence is tolerated. What a horrifying result of such poor judgement!
This is the most tragic story I've read so far, but it seems like mental disturbance is extremely common in Mormons. I've heard stories of bishops ignoring and not reporting rapes, sex abuse, spousal abuse, identity theft, fraud, illegal firearms possession, plots to blow up schools or government buildings, drug addictions, repeat abortions without notifying the parents of an underage girl, ignoring pedophilia and suicidal, as well as homicidal tendencies. How are they getting away with this? Even your average person on the street would alert authorities to homicidal intentions, or get this kid into serious therapy!! Why do people trust utterly untrained men as though they are all-knowing professionals? I mean even priests go to school and get trained to be priests, so I can understand why people might be inclined to trust their advice, they're trained for it! But these guys have no training in dealing with this stuff, why do grown-up people put so much faith in them?? At the very least, this organization should require them to train and become mandated reporters.
I have to wonder how it is that they don't get sued into the ground, but I'm starting to learn that practically everything in this crazy cult isn't actually stated, but always implied. They never seem to want to make a clear statement of anyone's responsibilities, and don't seem to think that a mental health professional, trained for dealing with this, could do a better job than some guy who was probably pretty shocked to become an omniscient bishop, especially since he's not, no matter how many weird little prayer circles he stands in.

Frakenfurter,

That pretty much covers it, especially the "omniscient" part.

A huge deal is made of the "mantle of bishop" when a bishop is set apart as a bishop. There are a bzillion stories of bishops "just knowing" things based on the mystical magical powers they are given. And of course that applies to helping their members with all manner of problems.

In this case, we saw the tragedy that can happen as a result. It's sad.

As for lawsuits, one can only guess what pressure is brought to bear on people not to sue, and more, we'll never know completely, I suspect, the overreaching power of the LDS church, especially in a state like Utah where most lawyers, judges, and law enforcement officials are likely reminded of their loyalty to the church whenever something like this happens.

are we talking about an ordinary runaway?
those are more common than many of us think.

minor events/incidents shouldn't be made into a big deal, kids that age are working to establish their independence.

OTOH, 'discernment'????

Well, we all know where good intentions lead people...

This couple should have raised their own two children well and let it go at that, enjoying their lives.

But no, Mormonism with its emphasis on large families had to ruin everyone's lives.

Love it when all knowing by-standers make smug judgements toward a family in intense pain.

Your depth is admirable. Ugh

How about you see to your own "depth" and stop correcting other posters.

When a son kills two adopted siblings, people will form an opinion.

This couple took on more than they should have and, clearly, their oldest son could not handle it.

That's my opinion.
And if you don't like it, that's YOUR problem, not mine.

Works both ways unfortunetly.

It's just so weak and easy to be the "after the fact" expert on tragedies. It's so shallow.

Something went horribly wrong so let's pile on with virtually no first hand knowledge of this family or situation.

Anyhow, just my opinion. Opinions are o.k. right?

The family in question is not LDS. My wife knows the mom, and met the 15-year-old boy and the 10-year-old that died in this tragedy. They are non-denominational Christians.

Regardless of your beliefs, what happened doesn't compute. My wife had a very difficult time with this, it chills her to think about what this family has to face now.

of misguided comments about this poor family and their "mormon bishop".

Condolences to this poor family. Mormon, Non-denom, or otherwise.

Not the first family with a dysfunctional teen. We know he tried to run away one time. That's it. That's our wealth of information to judge this situation on.

I guess that's plenty enough to crucify these parents and whatever religious leader was involved.