Pretty pissed right now. Previously I told the Bishop that I would allow interviews only if one of the parents were present (2 teens btw).

Fast forward to tonight ... I'm on a business trip ... wife calls and says Bishop came to our house and interviewed our kid while she was upstairs. She caught it and wanted to ask if it was ok if other kid can get interviewed (he had already started).

I guess the rule is "all temple interviews must be done in private". (note: I counselor texted my wife with this info before the bishop showed up, but she missed the text; bishop assumed it was kosher)

BTW, I think the rule is made up, but I could be wrong.

Once I made my thoughts known (again) ... the second interview was stopped by my wife (in our living room). my daughter said it was "awkward".

I'm speechless. Has anyone ever had this happen? How would you deal with it?

I'm blown away. Like I explained it to my daughter ... it's the priciple I'm defending. Whether it's a church, a club, or a school ... no one is authorized to talk to you without my consent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2013 10:05PM by Major Bidamon.

General Instructions for Worthiness Interviews

Stake presidents, bishops, and (when authorized) their counselors conduct worthiness interviews as outlined in this section. They should prepare spiritually so they can be guided by the Spirit during these interviews. They should also seek the power of discernment. This is a spiritual gift that will help them discern truth, as well as a member’s needs (see D&C 46:27–28).

Worthiness interviews should be private. For example, a husband and wife are interviewed separately for temple recommends.

Careful listening is important during worthiness interviews. The member of the stake presidency or bishopric should give full and sincere attention to the person being interviewed. The interviewer also makes sure the member understands the questions being asked. He sets aside enough time to conduct the interview in a dignified, unhurried manner.


Guidelines for Youth Interviews

The bishop interviews each young man and young woman at least annually. If possible, he interviews each 16- and 17-year-old twice annually. If this is not possible, he assigns a counselor to conduct some of these interviews.

Six months after the annual interview with the bishop, each young man and young woman ages 12 through 15 has an interview with the counselor in the bishopric who oversees the Aaronic Priesthood quorum or Young Women class.

In large wards, bishops, acting with inspiration and wisdom, may adjust the frequency of interviews. Some youth may need added attention, while others may need less frequent interviews than are suggested, though all should be interviewed at least annually.

Leaders encourage parents to stay close to their children and to counsel them, allowing the leaders to act in a supporting role.

Interviews are excellent teaching opportunities and can be spiritual experiences for youth. Members of the bishopric should express love and listen carefully. They encourage youth to talk rather than doing most of the talking themselves.

Matters for discussion include the growth of the young person’s testimony of Heavenly Father, the mission and Atonement of Jesus Christ, and the restored gospel. The importance of sustaining the President of the Church and other general and local Church leaders should also be discussed.

Another matter for discussion is the importance of obeying the commandments, particularly:

1. Praying regularly in private and with the family, studying the scriptures, honoring parents, and paying a full tithing.
2. Being modest in dress and action, refraining from any kind of sexual activity, and refraining from viewing, reading, or listening to pornographic material.
3. Obeying the Word of Wisdom and refraining from using illegal drugs and misusing other substances.
4. Refraining from using the name of the Lord in vain and from using vulgar expressions and other degrading language.
5. Attending priesthood and sacrament meetings, participating in other Church meetings and activities, and fulfilling assignments given by quorum leaders or Young Women class presidency members.

Members of the bishopric may want to refer to the scriptures, For the Strength of Youth, and True to the Faith during discussions about gospel principles and obeying the commandments.

While interviewing young men, the bishopric member gives special attention to their preparation for a full-time mission (see 4.2). He discusses preparing spiritually by being worthy, studying the gospel, and building a testimony. He also discusses preparing physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially. Members of the bishopric should be sensitive to the circumstances under which young men are honorably excused from full-time missionary service (see 4.5.3).

The bishop and his counselors encourage young women to support young men in accepting mission calls. Young women of eligible age who desire to serve a mission may do so, but they should not be pressured to serve (see 4.3.2).

Members of the bishopric ensure that youth understand the blessings of temple covenants and temple marriage and the requirements for receiving these blessings.

When interviewing a young man for priesthood ordination, the bishop or his assigned counselor discusses the blessings of holding the Aaronic Priesthood and the duties of the office to which the young man will be ordained, as revealed in Doctrine and Covenants 20:46–60 (see also Handbook 2, 8.1.1).

In interviews with young men, the bishopric member emphasizes the importance of living the standards in For the Strength of Youth and accomplishing the purposes of the Aaronic Priesthood (see Handbook 2, 8.1.3). He evaluates the young man’s progress and encourages him.

When interviewing a young woman, the bishopric member emphasizes the importance of incorporating the Young Women values and the standards in For the Strength of Youth in her daily living (see Handbook 2, 10.1.4 and 10.5). He also emphasizes the importance of completing the Personal Progress program. He evaluates the young woman’s progress and encourages her.

When interviewing youth of seminary age, the bishopric member emphasizes the importance of regular attendance at seminary and the blessings that come from active participation.

When discussing moral cleanliness, the bishop adapts the discussion to the understanding of the youth. He also ensures that the discussion does not encourage curiosity or experimentation.

maybe I should proceed with these two thoughts when addressing the bishop...

1."Worthiness interviews should be private. For example, a husband and wife are interviewed separately for temple recommends."

Should or Shall? there's a difference.

2. "Leaders encourage parents to stay close to their children and to counsel them, allowing the leaders to act in a supporting role."

I just want to be involved.

Is this from the most recent handbook?

I'd tell the bish or SP, "I am exercising my legal right as a parent to be present whenever my child is interviewed. I understand the mormon handbook and expectations. These are not my primary concern. My children's wellbeing and my own legal and personal need for protection and involvement are at issue."

As a teacher, I know that some parents are not comfortable with signing off on field trips or sex ed and other activities unless they are allowed to be present. That's fine with me. These are parents who are probably more prtective and involved than average. They insist on having respect for their rights as parents.

I think most of these parents have valid reasons for their demands and attitudes and I am accomodating. The mormon church can learn a lesson: Parents love their children more than any part-time morg clergy, institutions or handbooks. That's as it should be.

All the rules are made up. The handbook exists of made up rules.

Not just the handbook. The entire religion is made up!

Unrelated to the topic at hand, I found this verbiage in the Handbook interesting:

"The importance of sustaining the President of the Church and other general and local Church leaders should also be discussed." Funny they would feel the need to call that out. No, not funny, cult-like.


"The bishop and his counselors encourage young women to support young men in accepting mission calls. Young women of eligible age who desire to serve a mission may do so, but they should not be pressured to serve..."

So young women should not be "pressured to serve." But note there is no such instruction regarding young men. So...I'm guessing it's just fine to "pressure" young men to go on a mission.

+1

These were the exact two things I noticed.

When will you parents understand that your child needs your PROTECTION against the Mormon cult. Parents who can't handle cult manipulation and/or can't escape the cult, expect their children to deal with it alone?

I don't get it. Why are you still making your children attend, when you KNOW it's a cult?

"It is a parent's responsibility to teach children the truth."

Easier said than done. Wife is a believer. The fact she called me is a silver lining.

If it were me, I'd tell the bishop that if he tries something like that again, luring my child into a situation where the two of them are alone together, without a parent present, then I will go to the police and file a formal complaint. I don't care if it's in my own house, I don't care if he "assumes" permission from a parent who never gave permission. You have informed him he is not allowed to be alone with your child, no matter what your wife, or your child, or anyone else says. Put it in writing and have it notarized and formalized if you have to. Then tell him next time he tries to lure your child into a private room alone, you'll go to the police.

There is NO excuse for a grown man to be in a room alone with a minor against a parent's wish, no matter what.

than to invite them into a church classroom or bishop's.

It's easier to decline away from home than to send an authority figure packing after they've gained entry to a private residence.

The child and parents are being doubly violated when someone takes charge of them in their own home where non-family and strangers need to tread lightly.

YES, During my separation. I got a call from the ex.sec.stating that the Bis. wanted to talk to me. Then he paused and said,"oh its your daughter he wants to talk to and hung-up! a week or so later,I came home from school and asked the kids where she was? At church talking to the BISHOP!! I loaded the kids up and hauled up there as fast as I could! AT the time he was just talking to her. But in the past I could see him oogling her. (she was very developed for her age) THE GAUL of that Man!!!!

I have not sent this email to the bishop yet ... what does the peanut gallery think?

I don't know what the current Handbook of Instructions (book 1) says but an older version (2006) found online states the following regarding "General Instructions" for Worthiness Interviews:
"Worthiness interviews should be private. For example, a husband and wife are interviewed separately for temple recommends."

I interpret "should" as giving local church leaders some freedom on how to conduct interviews (i.e., it's not "shall" or "will").

I understand this contradicts the passage on page 77 (e.g., Under General Guidelines for Issuing Recomments, "Temple Recommend interviews must be private")

However, a further contradiction exists regarding Guidance for Youth Interviews on page 24. This passage sheds some light on the purpose of youth interviews and our current difference of opinion (e.g., "Leaders encourage parents to stay close to their children and to counsel them, allowing the leaders to act in a supporting role." )

In the end, it really doesn't matter to me what the current rules are (these have changed over the years). I am exercising my legal right as a parent to be present whenever my child is interviewed. I understand the handbook. Obedience to an administrative document is not my concern. My children's wellbeing and my own legal and personal need for protection and involvement are at issue.

I think I have been accommodating in allowing my children to participate in Church programs. My perception is that Temple worship has little to do with saving the dead, but is really a tool to keep people in the church. I think my children participating may influence their long term belief systems in favor of the Church. I'm ok with this risk; I want them to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

I've met the Church half way ... I'm perplexed why this simple wish (that a parent be present for all interviews) is impossible to accommodate.

If you must contact the stake president or area authorities / general authorities for further guidance, please do so. For now, please refrain from permitting anyone related to the church from interviewing my children without DW or myself present.

you might want to say "be present in the same room." The bish likely thinks your wife was present because she was at home.

I don't give a flying fig what the church rules are.

These are YOUR minor children. He has zero right to ask them anything about their life unless he follows YOUR rules.

The bishop went out of his way to work around you as far as i'm concerned. He had a lot of balls to come to YOUR home while you were out of town. I've never heard of a bishop doing that. I would be furious about that alone.

Nevermo here...I came to this board because I was curious about Mormon beliefs.

Whoa. I'm disgusted at this "worthiness" interview. Not only that people must go through it in order to go to the temple, but also that it's acceptable for a stranger to go into a room alone with a minor child and ask them personal questions! Not only that but to ask questions about sexuality? And that doesn't create ANY red flags?

Just to be clear, I'm not judging any parents, just the leaders of the church who should DEFINITELY know better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2013 10:53PM by ampersandwich.

I let my kids be interviewed. I asked the oldest two recently if they had to lie to the bishop. They both said yes. I asked why, they said it was either lie or be mortally embarrassed. I asked them if god would put you in a position you have to lie?

Hopefully the cracks will widen.

How old are these kids? I agree with your rule if the children are young teens, but after about sixteen wouldn't it be wise to let the teen decide how he/she wants the interview to proceed.

under 16.

You said - "Whether it's a church, a club, or a school ... no one is authorized to talk to you without my consent."

Teens in junior high & senior high are pulled into the principal's, vice principals', & counselors offices day in & day out for all kinds of reasons. I personally don't think it's realistic to have to call a parent every single time they need to talk to a kid about something.

Of course, I don't have kids, so I know you're going to say that IDK WTF I'm talking about. That because I don't have kids, I wouldn't know how much parents care for their children. Go ahead tell me how wrong I am.

I agree with this, teens have to talk to adults alone all the time and nobody thinks anything of it. I think the major issue that people are upset about here, though, is that the principal would be accused (rightfully!) of sexual harassment/child abuse if he or she asked questions about a child's sexual activity or thoughts or masturbation. In these interviews, though, it's not only expected and acceptable, but actually required of the bishop. If he doesn't ask, even in a delicate way, about sexual practices, he's violating the rules!

I was pulled into the principal's office more times than I could count, but that office door was not ever once shut, and he certainly never asked me about my sexual activity. But then again, a principal would be held accountable for impropriety, not get backed up by the school district.

I think I was a bit annoyed about the comparison between untrained lay clergy & trained educators who know better. Even if a principal or counselor has to have a door closed, the blinds are open for everyone to see everything going on & secretaries & clerks & such know who's in there & what's going on.

TBM's simply give over total trust to these guys because they're told it's the way things are. They don't think about it because to them, the bishop has been given authority, power, discernment and shit like that by gawd. It's all imaginary. It damages kids to force them to deny their sexuality, shame them for natural acts such as masturbation, etc. but TBM's are blinded to that. You don't really know this bishop's inner thoughts, he may be a perv or at least a prude who knows nothing about dealing with teens and their issues. God doesn't give them anything because even if He was real, he wouldn't approve of Mormonism.

I cannot really comprehend why this is even being discussed.

Whatever wording that was concocted in a cult handbook does not trump US law.

These people belong in JAIL. If this guy went behind my back to talk to my kid about subjects like that the police would be involved IMMEDIATELY.

If it were done in my house, I might be in a pair of handcuffs too, because the guy would also have couple of black eyes and a broken nose.

1. Praying regularly in private and with the family, studying the scriptures, honoring parents, and paying a full tithing.
2. Being modest in dress and action, refraining from any kind of sexual activity, and refraining from viewing, reading, or listening to pornographic material.
3. Obeying the Word of Wisdom and refraining from using illegal drugs and misusing other substances.
4. Refraining from using the name of the Lord in vain and from using vulgar expressions and other degrading language.
5. Attending priesthood and sacrament meetings, participating in other Church meetings and activities, and fulfilling assignments given by quorum leaders or Young Women class presidency members.

I batted 1000. I broke all these before I was 10.

Never read scriptures or prayed, found a Playboy on the side of the road, stole no-mo grandma's cigarettes, swore like a pimp and faked being sick or would throw shit fits to get out of going to church.

Some people are not meant for church.

I used to be on the bishopric and can tell you from my experience, some 30 years in the morg, no tbm parent ever thought twice about it. I recall using the handbook the first few times to make sure I was asking all the right questions, but for the next few hundred or so it was a two minute tick-box exercise, in the end I'd hand it off to the second counsellor.
I once spotted what I thought was inappropriate flirting from one of the counsellors and informed bishop. He waved it off and because I was no longer on the bishopric I was told in effect to mind my business. Some months later the counsellor tried to lure the girl into having sex and was reported to the police.
This kind of thing happens. Some leaders, in all seats of power not just TSCC, are perverts. When I was a teen the bishop in my ward had an affair with one of the young women. He left his wife and married the girl, they are still tbm. WTF!!?? Strange but true. I remember thinking, years later when in my 20s, that prick should be in jail!

There was a special Shabbat service on Saturday at her temple for graduating High School seniors. Her twin boys graduate HS in a few days and were among the honorees. She said it was a lovely event. Over the past week or two, the rabbi met with each graduating senior to ask about their college and future plans so that he could say something nice and appropriate about each graduating senior.

There were no questions whatsoever about worthiness, masturbation, sexual activity, etc., and members would have been aghast and would immediately have fired the rabbi if there had been.

Interviews were all about how was High School, where are you going to college, what do you think you would like to major in, etc., all with a view to creating a meaningful and memorable service for graduates and their parents.

Isn't this the way it should be in a decent religion that has respect for the worth (rather than just the worthiness) of individuals?

In another thread, I talked about how angry I was because growing up in the cult I was lead to believe that not only was this sick line of questioning normal, but that it happened in other churches & religious traditions as well, how else would other church leaders know who was sinning or not, & who needed to be punished for said sinning. I was also told directly that it was the same as Catholic confession.

Mormons can't respect boundaries. This kind of thing needs to go to the media. Hopefully this will help the wife out of the church. Nothing helps a shelf to break more than them being dickwads.