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Posted by: devilman ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:16AM

When I started doubting the church the first thing I did was start searching for evidences of the BoM. I'm here so, obviously, the results weren't in favor of the BoM. But here's one I've still never seen refuted.

Apparently they found an 'altar' of stones in Arabia along an old trade route that could be seen as matching Nephi's description of their SxSE -> E journey with 'Lehi' written on it. I knew a few Mormons who were really thumping that find. Sorry I don't have a reference link or anything but if you search Jeff Lindsay's site it shouldn't be too hard to find.

My first thoughts are:
1) In Hebrew/Arabic they don't write vowels so really they just found a rock with two letters 'L' and 'H'. I don't think that conclusively proves that it's the name "Lehi" as opposed to something else. Come to think of it I don't even remember if what they found was Hebrew or Arabic or what.

2) If Lehi was building an altar to offer sacrafices to God, why would he write his own name on it? Isn't that kind of like Monson spraypainting "Tommy was here" on the side of a temple?

Anyone else come across this one before? Anyone know of a good, objective review of the find?

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Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:25AM

And the essence of it is, so?

There are writings about a rich dude from the tribe Nihim that donated an altar in that area -- maybe this is another one of the Nihimite's bribes to a god. More evidence for that than Lehi by a long shot. ;)

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Posted by: devilman ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:59AM

That's right! My bad. Thanks

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:08PM


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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:15PM

because it hasnt been jammed back down MORmON throats forcefully enough to SHUT THEM UP ABOUT IT!

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:16PM


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Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:17PM

C'mon, these people have an excuse for the most egregious, duplicitious, criminal activities of their prophets. You really think they're ever going to let go of this one slim coincidence that MIGHT back up their claims? If it gets shattered then they'll just pretend they never said that and make up some more lies. Save yourself the headache and quit arguing with zealots. :)

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Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:50AM

To paraphrase something someone once said: "If this is the only real archeological evidence for the BoM, they are really in trouble."
The name Nehem, and/or variations of it, have been on maps for years, and of course the name Nehemiah is a biblical name from the bibble. :-)

http://seanhyland.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/nahom-evidence-for-the-book-of-mormon-found-in-yemen/

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Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:54AM

'

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 11:51AM

And that seems incredibly coincidental. Also, is the time period accurate?

Is there proof that NHM carved the altar exactly during the time that the Book of Mormon claimed the crossing.

Also, where in the book of Mormon does it say that NHM carved his name into an alter?

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Posted by: 665 N' 1/2 ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:01PM

He claimed to have visited it with a group of LDS members and was very duplicitous and trollish as far as I am concerned.

Of course the last time Darrick Evanson came here I was the first to notice.

I wonder if I have troll radar.

Devil man you say your needing answers and to go over to Jeff Lindsays site.

I don't know that I need to do that.

I have no belief that Lehi a ficton of an ephebophile conman was ever in Yemen.

No offense I just find it very coincidental.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:16PM

I remember the same crap about a pile of rocks in Missouri they claim is Adam's altar.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 03:01PM

Hahaha!

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 12:37PM

a single artifact on this hemisphere. That makes NHM by default the best evidence there is for them.

To the rest of us, it's randomness makes it meaningless.

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Posted by: lump ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 01:02PM

...but until there is one in Mesoamerica with Zarahemla on it, I wouldn't get too excited.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 01:03PM by lump.

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Posted by: SpongeBob SquareGarments ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 01:07PM

Summary and 3 different answers from critics: http://www.mormonthink.com/book-of-mormon-problems.htm#nhm

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Posted by: voltaire ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 01:15PM

You'll need to speak and read French, German, and English.

The world's expert on the altar in question, the inscription, and the archeological site, and the topic in general is Dr. phil. Burkhard Vogt, Scientific Director, Head of Commission for General and Comparative Archeology (KAVA, Kommission für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Archäologie), Deutschen Archäologischen Instituts, Bonn. He is the man whose team dug up that altar in the mid 1990s and wrote about its inscription. Here is a time-line & explanation of their activities in German:
http://www.dainst.org/abteilung.php?id=35a6cae8bb1f14a144290017f0000011

There is one publication featuring the inscription. If you can read French, it's your's for €57,17:
http://editions.flammarion.com/Albums_Detail.cfm?ID=17102&levelCode=arts
It is also published in German as "Jemen—Kunst und Archäologie im Land der Königin von Saba" but you'll have to track it down yourself.

There is one English-language publication by Dr. Vogt regarding carbon-dating artifacts from the region:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:BTNgYMzZ8OsJ:faculty.ksu.edu.sa/archaeology/Publications/General/RADIOCARBON%2520DATINGS%2520FROM%2520THE%2520ALMAQAH%2520TEMPLE.pdf+Burkhardt+Vogt2&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgFjXpxghKvKuYmwSlreiQgcS9zyNZKkuvKjdc4238XLeHRhFaqwsdINAcwEi_2U2LRHdKDHWCBt8ZmT645zd1ELmZaj2y9UYjy2vIbbeQhJ7WR86aGu8Nt3Rsgnyf89FrWfYl6&sig=AHIEtbTkUUXrzjJsA4JHjFvEGHh6myRtrg

The only other unbiased English-language websites are:
http://www.yementourism.com/services/touristguide/detail.php?ID=2058#ThroneBalquis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27rib

Dr. phil. Burkhard Vogt can be reached at the following:
Vorderasiatische Altertumskunde
Telefon: +49-(0)228-997712-12
Telefax: +49-(0)228-997712-49
Email: vogt@kaak.dainst.de

You can ask him all about how his discoveries prove the Book of Mormon true. And if you do contact him with such an idiotic request (brought to you by your friendly neighborhood spin-doctors from the Mormon cult) you had better hope he has a sense of humor, because I imagine his response might be something akin to that of a certain Professor Charles Anthon, renowned classicist at Columbia University, whom Martin Harris attempted to induct into a fraud...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Anthon

If you want fairy tales, lies, and fabrications, go to the Mormons.

If you want facts, go to the sources.

Good luck with all that.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 03:13PM

okay, I'm off to read "the Anthon Affair" and also the other side of the story to see what Mormons say in response.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 21, 2011 03:13PM

Nahom was listed in the 1760s travels of Carsten Niebuhr. The travels were cataloged in 1792 by Robert Heron in a two-volume translation of Niebuhr’s first work titled Niebuhr’s Travels through Arabia and Other Countries in the East. Could Joe Smith or others of his time and location have had access to these maps? Yes. There are two library catalogs in Pennsylvania (Allegheny College & Philly Medical School) that both listed that they had in the library the travel logs and maps of Carsten Niebuhr. See
http://books.google.com/books?id=YmwpAAAAYAAJ&dq=Pennsylvania%20library%20catalog%20%20Niebuhr%E2%80%99s%20Travels&pg=PR2#v=onepage&q=%20Niebuhr&f=false
&
http://books.google.com/books?id=K5xAAAAAYAAJ&dq=allegheny%20college&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q=niebuhr&f=false
for the references.

Furthermore, there are so many opportunities for archeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon, but none do. For example, the climatic point of the BoM is its account of the visit of Christ to America, leaving utter demolition behind (3 Ne 8-9) and a massive, industrious, utopian, christian society that lasted 200 years (4 Ne). The latter is unheard of in all history, which is replete with violence, if not wars, in every decade of time. Yet, not a shred of evidence of these momentous events and societies exist any where in America, limited or otherwise. The vikings visited a remote (limited geography) location of icy Canada and left lab-fulls of trace evidence. Smith's Nephite population claimed to spread from sea to sea over the face of the whole land leaves nothing.

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