"Holding his 11-year-old daughter Maya close and choking back tears, Lawrence said his wife was everyone's friends and an incredible woman of faith."

"Schemmer said women who have had multiple C-sections are at higher risk for placenta previa and accreta. All of Katrina's previous births had been delivered by C-sections." (All 5)

"The family's Latter-day Saint faith is helping them cope with their loss. They believe they'll see her again."



http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25091500&nid=148&title=mother-dies-unexpectedly-after-giving-birth-to-sixth-child&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-4

WHY did she keep having kids?! She could've been around to mother the ones she already had!
I don't want to presume to tell people what to do but I have to assume this is a direct result of church teachings and culture. I've got FB 'friends' posting about this and how motherhood is the 'highest calling' etc. It makes me so angry that this tragedy was so preventable!

that's sad. Reminds me of 19 kids and counting

Horrible. I remember being told there was no greater sacrifie than giving up your life in child birth. CHILLING!! When will they realize those children still need a mother!! I wonder what those motherless children have to say? IT'S like ours REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS are GOLD! AND our hearts & minds are garbage!

RE: our REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS are GOLD! AND our hearts & minds are garbage!

That's definitely what it feels like sometimes.
I don't have kids but I am into the arts, etc.
I've had more than a few examples of being treated in a way that has made me feel like my only value as a woman is whether or not I've produced another human being.

I also know a woman who is 40 and has 10 kids (some are from she and husband's previous marriages) and she continues trying to have more and more children. Her choice, but how on earth could 10 not be enough for someone?

When you put your faith in warm fuzzies and magical powers, you don't need science and doctors.

Right - because after all, what does 'science' know. Surely had they had enough faith and prayers, she could've gotten through this high risk child birth and been alive today.....

Not-so-common-sense says that they should have quit after two children. The population of the Earth has already been *more* than replenished. I can't imagine how difficult life will be for those six motherless kids. The Morg should set up a fund to pay the family adequate money for childcare. Woops, I forgot. The Morg is spending its money on malls and McTemples.

Pt. Loma?

So she basically bleeds to death through the placenta?

Sounds like a nasty combination of a culture of too many C-sections and a culture of too many pregnancies.

This is very sad and condolences to her family.

That's so sad. I hope the family heals soon.

I don't want to blame anyone. No one expected that another pregnancy would result in the woman dying.

I am very concerned that no one is tracking the number of women who die due to complications of childbirth. I know another woman died in Orem just over a year ago after having a baby. This woman didn't even get in the news. I only know because I live here.

How can these tragedies be prevented in the future if they aren't even tracked, let alone researched in scientific studies?

Naomi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want to blame anyone. No one expected that
> another pregnancy would result in the woman
> dying.
>
> I am very concerned that no one is tracking the
> number of women who die due to complications of
> childbirth. I know another woman died in Orem just
> over a year ago after having a baby. This woman
> didn't even get in the news. I only know because I
> live here.
>
> How can these tragedies be prevented in the future
> if they aren't even tracked, let alone researched
> in scientific studies?


Actually, that information is indeed quite well-tracked. Shockingly enough, the US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world. The lowest? Estonia. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2223rank.html

Exactly! A lot of people are quite unaware of the statistics for the U.S., which are indeed quite high for an industrialized country.

Given than 135 countries have higher mortality rates, I wouldn't call it "one of the highest."

I think it would be more apt to say that it's much higher than expected.

When you consider that not all of the nations ahead of us are industrialized, it is pretty damned shocking. We are #40 amongst industrialized nations. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/22/science/la-sci-maternal-deaths-20100523

Where would that rank?

Unfortunately, I think it's a leftover instinct to value a woman just for her reproductive abilities.

It's something that we don't need anymore given our state of relative safety, the success of modern medicine, and the size of the human population.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 10:21AM by utahstateagnostics.

From the article, it looks like the medical team was right there and did their best.

As someone who has gotten pregnant when there were risks involved, I would just say that it's a very personal decision. And in my case, things went fine, but I stopped before I had a lot of kids.

The part that bothered me about the article was this: "Her family believes Katrina has a greater mission in another realm."

What a horrible thing to tell her children.

Totally agree. Subliminal message sent loud and clear: "You're not important enough to warrant a mother."

So sad.

This sort of thing really tears at my heart because we had complications after the birth of our second child. We'd always wanted at least 3, so hearing that getting pregnant again would be a significant threat to my life was really hard - especially because I was TBM at the time. Two doctors advised me to take permanent steps to make sure I didn't get pregnant again, although they said we could try if we were absolutely determined. But it would have been a very high risk pregnancy. We were so TBM that we actually went and asked the bishop for advice. I asked him what he'd tell his daughter if she were in this position and he looked at me and said "I'd tell her that her children needed their mother more than they needed another sibling." Thank goodness there was a good bishop in place at a very critical time. We just had the two and the older I get, the more I realize that it was the perfect number of kids for us. It makes me so sad to think of these children having to grow up without their mommy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 11:23AM by CA girl.

This whole thing makes me a bit sick. First, its a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the family, especially those kids. I wonder, had that been a no-mo family I wonder if KSL would have even picked it up at all. Yet because its a wonderful "faith promoting" story it gets top billing. Second, they are robbing those poor kids of their grief by stuffing that "she is in a better place" bullshot down their throats. There is no place that woman is more needed than with those kids. Any being that would be selfish enough to fuck over small children for their own needs is no supreme being. Supreme asshole maybe....

Well it reminds me of the movie The Invention of Lying; it's so hard to think of just telling the kids "Your mother is no more, that's it, the cells are dead, she'll rot to bones and eventually those will be dust" and so you have to say something, anything that makes them feel better.

Now one could argue that in the long term the truth would be better than the lie, but I can understand why they say what they said. My grandfather died after a year-long fight with cancer that was discovered during a physical before he and my grandmother were to go to New Zealand on a mission. We all told ourselves he was serving a mission to the people in spirit prison.

How many kids have been told their dog is now in heaven?

I still grieved, even believing that my grandfather was now on a mission to those in spirit prison, so I don't know they are robbed of their grief, but I suppose that would depend on how things are presented. If it's a case of "stop crying, you'll see her again, so suck it up" then yeah, they are robbed of their grief.

Just read it this morning and was very sad for this whole family. BUt even being warned of risks associated with multiply pregnancy most of the time seems to go unheaded because after all, it's gods plan and will, that one must populate and replenish the earth. At ALL costs, even death! I feel so bad for thos children!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 11:57AM by luvcake.

If I had to make a guess she had 5 c-sections because her OBGYN would not offer her the chance to VBAC, or perhaps her health insurance would not cover a hospital that allows VBAC. Its a shame. Women who are planning large families should be encouraged to give birth vaginally for this exact reason.

Its possible (but not likely) that she had the chance to vbac and turned it down despite the benefits and relative safety of vaginal birth (and the success rate- more than half of women who try succeed).

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the number of C-sections is going up quite a bit, almost to half of births in some countries are C-sections.

The article surmised that over the years, women with narrower hips have been able to deliver kids via C-section where they probably would have died in past ages, and have thus passed on the narrow hips gene. I supposes passing on a 'big head' gene could also be a factor in this. Either way, it's becoming more and more common.

Some women I know have only delivered children this way.

utahstateagnostics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the
> number of C-sections is going up quite a bit,
> almost to half of births in some countries are
> C-sections.
>
> The article surmised that over the years, women
> with narrower hips have been able to deliver kids
> via C-section where they probably would have died
> in past ages, and have thus passed on the narrow
> hips gene. I supposes passing on a 'big head' gene
> could also be a factor in this. Either way, it's
> becoming more and more common.
>
> Some women I know have only delivered children
> this way.

the pelvis isn't a fixed ring of bone, and the body secretes hormones to relax ligaments before birth to accomodate the baby. even mainstream organizations such as ACOG admit that 'big baby' is not a valid reason to perform a c-section. issues where babies get stuck (like shoulder dystocia) can not be predicted in any reliable way.

midwifery groups have phenomenally low c-section rates- do only big-hipped women choose midwifery? I don't think so.

The reason there are so many c sections is because it is convenient for the providers. That is why so many of them take place right before shift changes at hospitals.

Horrid.

The planet has over 7 billion people now. I think the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply" has already been accomplished.

http://www.census.gov/popclock/

As a child I remember hearing the command of "multiply and replenish" the earth. Along with that I recall being told the earth could sustain all of gods children, and to ignore those who state otherwise.

My dad told me about some discussion that happened during a Priesthood meeting/lesson/whatever you call them. A man was talking about how his wife was pregnant with their eighth child ... and the ob/gyn told them that, quite literally, another pregnancy would kill her.

Please keep in mind I'm reporting the discussion second-hand, so I know that the quotes are unlikely to be exact.

Guy: It's God's will that we should keep having children; surely he wouldn't allow my wife to die. This doctor must be wrong.

My dad: I think God gave people brains. And some people use those brains to become doctors. I guess I love my wife too much. If a doctor had told me, on the verge of having an eighth child, that trying to have a ninth one would kill her? We would not be having any more kids.

My dad, it must be said, got a vasectomy after my brother was born (there are only two of us) ... and this was decades before he and my mom joined TSCC.

Finally, though c-section births are indeed becoming more common. I used to work for a hospital. A lot of it has to do with managed care issues, but an even bigger part of it has to do with medical malpractice insurance.

OMG, I went to high school with her... She was really funny and friendly even to outsiders.

6 pregnancies with a c section is too many. Did this poor woman have a doctor to tell her to get her tubes tied after 2 or 3? What was wrong with these people?

I just realized that I know this lady's family.. They're in-laws of my sister.

This is very sad, I'm sorry for you and AngelCowgirl.

I had a neighbor once that had six kids all before the oldest was 10. The woman was a basket case..Kids ran wild. Another neighbor told the father that "Sure, the church says 'multiply and replenish the earth', but not by yourself"....

That being said I think this is a very sad case. The children are motherless and dad is going to be grief stricken for sometime making his parenting abilities to be less than perfect. Hopefully family and their ward will step in to help out. I am not going to judge whether or not they were right to have six kids. They knew the risks,rolled the dice and lost. I only wish the family the very best.

I can't see any kind of scenario where having that many C-sections makes any sense. More is not always better.