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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 01:40PM

In 1884 Sarah Pratt, estranged wife of Apostle Orson Pratt,
was interviewed several times and her account of life among
the Mormons was preserved and later published.

Here is an excerpt from an 1892 printing of part of Sarah's
story, from the columns of the _Cleveland Leader_ and the
New York City _Weekly Press._


>INSULTED BY SMITH, THE "MAN OF GOD."
>
>During my husband's [Orsoon Pratt's] absence, which extended
>over two years, I took occasion to visit an aunt in Illinois
>and went to Quincy to be present at a discussion on Mormonism.
>From there I was invited by Joseph Smith, who had been one of
>the speakers, to return home in his carriage.
>
>Gladly accepting his escort, my little boy and I were driven
>to Nauvoo by the prophet, who held young Orson on his knee.
>It occurred to me that Joseph paid me unusual attention
>during this journey, but once home I dismissed the idea as
>unworthy of him and me.
>
>Perhaps I should here state that when my husband first
>went away I lived with Vilate, Heber C Kimball's first wife.
>
>After awhile I took up a piece of land, buying it for a
>mere trifle. By selling two-thirds of it I was enabled
>to build a small house on the remaining third. Here I
>awaited my husband's coming, and here Joseph Smith visited
>me. I never suspected anything wrong in a prophet.
>
>"Sister Pratt," said he one day, "I've something to say
>to you, but I'm afraid you won't receive it in the right
>spirit. I'm afraid it will be a trial to you. I dare not
>tell you now."
>
>And then he went away.
>
>The next time Joseph called he sympathized with me in my
>solitude. "You are very lonesome without your husband,
>are you not?"
>
>"Yes," I replied.
>
>"You remember my mentioning the other day that I had something
>to say to you?"
>
>"Yes."
>
>"Well, Sister Pratt, in the absence of your husband, there's
>no need for you to be lonesome. You know that old Abraham
>and the ancients had more wives than one. You have a right
>to have more men than one. I'll come in any time."
>
>"Why, Brother Joseph, what do you mean?"
>
>"I don't mean anything but what it would be perfectly right
>to do."
>
>"Do you pretend to say that God would approve of such conduct?"
>
>"Why, God doesn't care anything about it. We are put here
>on this earth to enjoy ourselves. If we can enjoy ourselves
>in this way, we've a perfect right to do so, if we keep it
>to ourselves. God doesn't care. The harm will be in letting
>anybody know it. If you keep quiet and I keep quiet it's
>all right. If your husband were to know it, then there
>would be harm."
>
>"Is it possible Brother Joseph that you can make such a
>suggestion to me? I love my husband as I love my own life.
>He is the only man I ever wanted or ever expect to want.
>I grieve that you should have said this to me."
>
>"I was afraid," answered Joseph, "that you would not
>receive what I had to say in the proper light. That is
>why I never told you before. I would like to come and
>live with you sometimes myself."
>
>"Brother Joseph, stop! My husband is all in all to me.
>Let there be an end to this."
>
>"You are never to mention what I have said to a soul, remember."
>
>"I don't know whether I will or not."
>
>"Oh, if you do," threatened Joseph, "It will be the worse
>for you. If you expose me I'll ruin your character. Mark
>well my words. I've the power, and I'll do it."

...

There's quite a lot more to the story, and it can be posted
here later, if anybody is interested.

Sarah's account corresponds fairly closely to what has been
preserved regarding Joseph Smith's attempted seduction of
Nancy Rigdon at Nauvoo, right down to the detail of having
her reputation ruined by false accusations from the topmost
church leadership.

Imagine yourself a believer in Smith -- living among his
fanatical followers at Nauvoo -- and then having him
threaten you severely, should you ever tell the truth
about his obviously immoral secret activities!

But neither Nancy Rigdon nor Mrs. Pratt immediately lost
their admiration and confidence in Joseph Smith. Nancy
evidently remained a believing Mormon for the rest of her
life, although her father condemned Smith as a fallen
prophet. Sarah Pratt was literally driven out of the
Mormon belief system by Smith's subsequent immoral acts
and attempts at terrorizing her.

And yet, Mormons today will deny that any of this ever
happened. If they bother to admit anything at all, it
generally comes in the form of a defense of Smith and
hostile accusations leveled against the women who had
the courage to resist and divulge his secret acts.

Is there _any way_ at all to get a TBM to think about this?

UD

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 01:49PM

good lord, that sounds like a horrible porno script. Poor Sarah

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 01:55PM

http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/wyl-william-wymetal-wilhelm-ritter-von/page-1/

Maybe I'll stop into Ken Sanders and ogle it this week... I was headed there anyway to shake Tim DeChristopher's hand...

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:32PM

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/wyl-wil
> liam-wymetal-wilhelm-ritter-von/page-1/
>
> Maybe I'll stop into Ken Sanders and ogle it this
> week... I was headed there anyway to shake Tim
> DeChristopher's hand...

Tell Ken "Hi" from Dale in Hawaii -- and that I hope he
had fun spending the 1000% profit he made, re-selling
my Walt Disney's Comics & Stories, issue #1.

UD

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Posted by: thematrix ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:12PM

I'm really interested to see more. Can you direct me to where you found this?

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:24PM

thematrix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm really interested to see more. Can you direct
> me to where you found this?

I'll upload the Cleveland Leader version to my newspaper
clippings web-site today and supply the URL in this thread.

In the meanwhile you can take Sl. Cabbie's advice and
read Sarah's reminiscences as given to Dr. Wyl. (See below)


Smith's attempt at seducing Mrs. Pratt was published in the summer of 1842, in
newspapers that circulated in and around Nauvoo -- but Smith's followers refused to
believe those accusations.
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/IL/sang1842.htm#0715

All of this occurred well before anybody ever spoke of Smith having a divine revelation
commanding and authorizing his crude adultery. Sarah Pratt continues with her story:

>When Joseph Smith first showed himself to me to his true colors I felt
>that I must confide in some one, as I wanted advice, so I want to a
>woman who had been the widow of Morgan, the Mason, and was then
>the wife of another man. My husband had converted both and we were
>great friends. When I told Mrs. H. what had passed between Joseph
>and me, she, to my great surprise, laughed and said:
>
>"Never mind, do as you please. Do you know I've been Joseph's mistress
>for four years? It has been a common thing with him for a long time. I
>shall give you no advice as I think a great deal of Mr. Pratt."
>
>She promised she'd keep my secret. Nothing was said about a revelation then.

This "Mrs. H." was Lucinda Morgan Harris, who was Smith's secret mistress
before any attempts were made to sanitize that affair as a "plural marriage."

A Year after her 1884 interviews with Kate Field, in Salt Lake City in the spring of
1885, Mrs. Pratt related essentially the same information to Wilhelm R. von Wymetal:

>Mrs. [G. W.] Harris was a married lady, a very great friend of mine. When Joseph
>had made his dastardly attempt on me, I went to Mrs. Harris to unbosom my grief
>to her. To my utter astonishment, she said, laughing heartily: "How foolish you are!
>I don't see anything so horrible in it.
>Why, I AM HIS MISTRESS SINCE FOUR YEARS!" [i. e. since 1838 at Far West]
http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1886WWyl.htm#pg060a

See also Jerome B. Stillson's report of his interview with Sarah:
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/NYherld2.htm#051877

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Posted by: anonn2 ( )
Date: October 30, 2014 10:25AM

+ top

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Posted by: Village ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:24PM

This creeps me out for another reason---Joseph wanted to hold the child on his lap.

In my family history there is a story of Joseph stopping by the home of my gg grandfather to bounce a set of twins on his knee or rock them in his lap. ick.......

Are there a lot of family histories with Joseph doing this?

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:30PM

Village Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This creeps me out for another reason---Joseph
> wanted to hold the child on his lap.
>
> In my family history there is a story of Joseph
> stopping by the home of my gg grandfather to
> bounce a set of twins on his knee or rock them in
> his lap. ick.......
>
> Are there a lot of family histories with Joseph
> doing this?

Smith used to ride through Nauvoo with my very young
great great grandfather MacIntire in the saddle in
front of him, on the horse he called Joe Duncan.

I recall riding on a motorcycle seat, wedged in front of a
similar narcissist, as a kid. It was a very uncomfortable
feeling, the way that compacting of male bodies worked out.

UD

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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:41PM

According to FAIR, if you mention Sarah Pratt or Nancy Rigdon you are "anti-mormon".

How's this for a white wash?

"No woman was physically harmed for a refusal to practice plural marriage. Those who refused but maintained the secrecy necessary for the Saints' protection in Nauvoo suffered no ill effects."

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Did_women_turn_Joseph_down

Women who did not keep JSJ's dirty secrets are painted as endangering all the Saints, therefore they pretty much got what they deserved.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:55PM

crom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> Those who refused but
> maintained the secrecy necessary for the Saints'
> protection in Nauvoo suffered no ill effects....

So, when Apostle William Smith knowingly abused Miss
Martha Brotherton, calling her a common harlot in the
pages of his Nauvoo _Wasp,_ that was actually meant as
having a positive effect upon Sister Brotherton?

And When Hyrum Smith lied about that attempted seduction,
he was trying to have a positive effect upon Martha --
as he addressed the Mormons at Conference and denied
that she was ever compelled to endure such an attempted
seduction while essentially being held captive in Nauvoo?

And when Orson Hyde denounced Nancy Rigdon as a Nauvoo
prostitute, that was meant to have a helpful effect upon her?

Mormons: liars... Liars... LIARS... L-I-A-R-S!!!

UD

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Posted by: stillburned ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 02:59PM

Ohhhh, the lengths the "antis" will go to destroy the Prophet! Too funny. I'm wondering, though, you think that if no one had shot the @$$-hole that there would be a TSCC today, or if everyone would have grown disgusted with Horny Joe and the whole thing would have collapsed on him?

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 03:12PM

Sarah Pratt continues with her account:

>IN THE POWER OF A MONSTER.
>
>Alarmed at Joseph's threats, I kept my doors locked and curtain
>down lest I should be taken unawares. Joseph called frequently
>after this interview, but I was never at home unless he was
>accompanied by others. Then I admitted him, and he treated me
>as kindly as formerly. Nothing special happened until Mr. Pratt
>returned, when I related what had transpired. My husband was
>greatly distressed, lay awake all night, and at daylight the next
>day went straight to Joseph's house and rapped on his bedroom door.
>
>"Who's there?" asked Joseph.
>
>"Orson Pratt. I want to see you."
>
>"Sit down and wait, Brother Orson. I'll dress and come out."
>
>In a short time Joseph appeared, and, without asking to know the
>cause of so untimely a visit, said:
>
>"Brother Orson, come with me."
>
>Leading the way to his dry goods store nearby Joseph took my husband
>to a room above it, and, locking the door, said:
>
>"Now, Brother Orson, what do you want?"
>
>"I want to know why you take liberties with other men's wives and teach
>them doctrines you would not permit other men to teach your wife?"
>
>"I know very well what you have come for, Brother Orson. I want to tell
>you now that if either you refer or your wife refers to what has transpired,
>I'll ruin your character and hers. I tell you what I have already told her.
>It would destroy me, it would destroy the church, and to save both I
>should be forced to blast you and your wife."
>
>A terrible quarrel ensued and my husband returned home more angry
>than when he started out.
>
>Mr. Pratt did not keep quiet, and shortly after, at a public meeting held in
>a grove, Joseph Smith denounced me as one of the worst women
>in the world, associating my name with that of John C. Bennett. This man
>had once been one of Joseph's intimate friends, and had been brought to
>my house by him for the purpose of my securing sewing from him. I was
>only too glad to get money for my family, as Mormons usually paid in
>squashes and other farm products. Mr. Bennett was better off, and could
>pay to current coin. He boarded at first with Joseph, and during the six
>months I worked for him often came for his clothes, Joseph at times being
>his companion. He remained long enough to get his bundles and then
>went away.


The part about Joseph Smith coming to her house, and pretending that
nothing bad had previously happened between them, reminds me of what
a young lady confessed in a college class I took --

Her father had a boss who visited the family's residence frequently,
and on several occasions he had taken the girl into a large closet
and had raped her. Telling her that he would kill her if she told.

One day this happened while the father was only temporarily out
of the room and he returned to find his daughter in tears. She told
what had happened half a dozen times. Her father berated her
for telling a "filthy lie" and apologized to his boss.

The same thing happened two more times, before the boss quit
coming over for his visits. The girl's father never did believe her,
but her mother did -- for the boss had tried the same thing with
the mother, but had been resisted.

A chilling story to hear, told with stone cold honesty and obvious
deep pain, in an Abnormal Psych class.

UD

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Posted by: uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 04:47PM

Sarah Pratt continues to tell her story -- in which Smith
practically charges her with murder, a capital crime under
the Nauvoo charter; and probably one not subject to review
by a higher court, if Smith followed through with execution.

In other words, Smith was demonstrating openly, in public,
that he held Sarah's life in his hands.

But by this time the story had leaked out to the Gentile
press and it soon was responded to in the Mormon-controlled
Nauvoo newspaper as well. Smith could not simply murder
Sarah and her husband -- but he could not easily keep
them within his church either....

>Soon after Joseph and Hyrum (Smith) rode up to my door, escorted
>by several companies of the Nauvoo Legion. There may have been 200
>men. Joseph called for me, and, before the troops, exclaimed:
>
>"Here's the woman that has dishonored her husband, and I shouldn't be
>surprised if she had taken his life in order to go off with Bennett."
>
>He then ordered three or four men to search the house for my husband's body.
>
>While this was going on I paced the pavement in front of my house and
>declared to the troops that it was Joseph who had insulted me. He was
>the guilty one. Instead of my taking Orson Pratt's life it was far more likely
>he'd take it.
>
>"She's a liar,'' cried Joseph. "This is all done to cover up her iniquity
>with Bennett."
>
>The men listened and said nothing. All apparently believed Joseph, though
>I found out later that many did not.
>
>Commanding the troops to follow, Joseph wheeled about and galloped off.
>I think the men who searched my house were Danites. Smith had
>followers who would do his bidding in all things.
>
>In a couple of hours Joseph returned with a dozen or more men, saying:
>
>"I have had a letter from your husband wherein he expresses belief in your
>guilt and declares that he will never return."
>
>"It is false," I replied. "Remember your own confession to him. Show me
>the letter."
>
>"No, that I cannot do, for you'll burn it. I'll let you see a copy."
>
>"I want no copy. You know that you've received nothing from my husband."
>
>When Mr. Pratt returned he declared he'd written no such letter. Joseph
>had insulted me to my face in order to set the public against me and
>render my testimony worthless. The Higbees sent two men in search of
>my husband, whom they found ten or twelve miles down the
>river. He was returning, having decided to fight it out to Nauvoo.

UD

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Posted by: magnite ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 05:05PM

WOW...how does one respond to such an emotionally strong story?

Definately not "We thank thee oh God for a prophet.."

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Posted by: JamesM ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 05:08PM

...it says twice that there was no physical harm done to Sarah and other women who came out.

Also, it implies that Sarah was kind of a bad person anyway. A sinner, of sorts.

So ultimately, because all the abuse was psychological and emotional, nothing matters because there were no physical scars in the end. Also, Sarah's personal sins "complicate" her whole story; her personal sins mean we can't believe a damn word that filthy whore ever said.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 05:17PM

I have some other responsibilities to take
care of today -- so I'll post the remainder
of the Sarah Pratt interview here:
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH/miscoh05.htm#122492
a little later today (refresh your web-browser to view it).

But, since you mention the modern LDS rebuttal against
Sarah, I'll finish this thread with the "proof" that
modern LDS polemicists cite for her being a harlot....

Sarah continues:

>One day while my husband was asleep a paper was
>thrown into our yard, which I was curious enough to
>pick up, and found to my amazement that it was an
>"extra" containing a statement signed by Mr. and
>Mrs. Stephen H. Goddard to the effect that during
>my stay at their house I had been guilty of improper
>conduct with John C. Bennett. The falsehood stunned
>me, especially coming from such a source. Mrs.
>Goddard had always professed great friendship for
>me. During my husband's absence I had on Mrs.
>Goddard's urgent invitation passed several weeks
>with her, and while there had continued sewing for
>Mr. Bennett. I made all his shirts and Mrs. Goddard
>frequently assisted me. At one time I remember
>having done Mr. Bennett's washing. As usual Mr.
>Bennett came for his clothing, but I doubt whether
>I ever saw him alone. Mrs. Goddard was far more
>sociable with Mr. Bennett than I.
>
>On reading the statement I waked Mr. Pratt, saying:
>
>"Look at this."
>
>"Oh, take it away!" exclaimed my husband. "I can't
>read any more of their lies."
>
>"But, Mr. Pratt, surely you will go to the Goddards
>and demand an explanation?"
>
>"No, I shall not go near them. It is useless. Whatever
>they make up their minds to do they will do."
>
>"Then I'll go myself."
>
>The Goddards' house was within sight, and as I started
>to go toward it, Stephen Goddard left it and hurried away
>in an opposite direction from me. Breathless I asked
>Mrs. Goddard the meaning of the statement.
>
>"Did you sign your name yourself?" asked.
>
>"I did. I couldn't help myself. Hyrum Smith brought the
>statement and insisted upon our signing it. Both of us
>refused and told him it was not true. He commanded
>us to do as he said or it would be the worse for us. He
>declared that it was necessary to save Joseph and the
church. Mr. Goddard then concluded it was his duty to
>perjure himself, but I didn't. I told Hyrum that there was
>nothing between you and Bennett. My pleading was
>futile. The extra was to be issued and I must sign it.
>Fear alone made me lie."

Here is the published statement, from the 1842 Nauvoo Wasp:

>TESTIMONY OF MRS. GODDARD.
>
>Dr. Bennett came to my house one night about 12 o'clock,
>and sat on or beside the bed where Mrs. Pratt was and
>cursed and swore very profanely at her; she told me the
>next day that the Dr. was quick tempered and was mad
>at her, but gave no other reason. I concluded from
>circumstances that she had promised to meet him
>somewhere and had disappointed him; on another night
>I remonstrated with the Dr. and asked him what Orson
>Pratt would think, if he could know that you were so
>fond of his wife, and holding her hand so much; the Dr.
>replied that he could pull the wool over Orson's eyes.
>
>Mrs. Pratt stated to me that Dr. Bennett told her, that he
>could cause abortion with perfect safety to the mother,
>at any stage of pregnancy, and that he had frequently
>destroyed and removed infants before their time to prevent
>exposure of the parties, and that he had instruments for
>that purpose &c.
>
>My husband and I were frequently at Mrs. Pratt's and
>stayed till after 10 o'clock in the night, and Dr. Bennett
>still remained there with her and her little child alone at
>that late hour.
>
>On one occasion I came suddenly into the room where
>Mrs. Pratt and the Dr. were; she was lying on the bed
>and the Dr. was taking his hands out of her bosom; he
>was in the habit of sitting on the bed where Mrs. Pratt
>was lying, and lying down over her.
>
>I would further state that from my own observation, I am
>satisfied that their conduct was anything but virtuous,
>and I know Mrs. Pratt is not a woman of truth, and I
>believe the statements which Dr. Bennett made
>concerning Joseph Smith are false, and fabricated for
>the purpose of covering his own iniquities, and enabling
>him to practice his base designs on the innocent.
>ZERUIAH N. GODDARD.
>
>Subscribed before me one of the alderman of the City
>of Nauvoo, and sworn to this 28th day of August 1842.
>
>GEO. W. HARRIS.
>Alderman of the City of Nauvoo.

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/LDS/wasp1.htm#unknown

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 02:38AM

Uncle Dale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have some other responsibilities to take
> care of today -- so I'll post the remainder
> of the Sarah Pratt interview here:
> http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH/miscoh05.h
> tm#122492
> a little later today
...

oops -- typo -- should have read:

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH/miscoh05.htm#120492

UD

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 06:54PM

The face of tyranny is familiar. It always looks the same.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 06:59PM

"On one occasion I came suddenly into the room where
>Mrs. Pratt and the Dr. were; she was lying on the bed
>and the Dr. was taking his hands out of her bosom; he
>was in the habit of sitting on the bed where Mrs. Pratt
>was lying, and lying down over her."

good lord, could he have used more words to explain that they were bonking? (allegedly) I have no doubt Zeriuiah is a nosey little liar. Stupid name too!

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Posted by: Bradley ( )
Date: May 01, 2013 08:27PM

Sarah Pratt is my new hero! She should be the church's new role model for the youth. Forget the other Joseph ditching Potiphar's wife. Sarah shut this scaliwag down cold.

This would make a great chastity talk.

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Posted by: lucky ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 07:13AM

Nice Fucking (literally) *Restoration* there, MORmONS!

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Posted by: alphonso ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 10:28AM

What an a-hole js and bs was to that poor woman. So grateful for resources like this to put things into a better perspective. It serves to further disentangle my mind from the tentacles of tscc and its teachings throughout my life.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 12:33PM

alphonso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...resources like this...

As Steve Benson has documented in another thread, we have
three such cases from the same time period -- besides
Sarah's case there were also the attempted seductions of
Martha Brotherton and Nancy Rigdon. Probably these were
just the tip of a much, much greater iceberg of Mormon
leaders abusing their power and dominating women in ways
that they expected would always remain a secret.

But now at least a few cases have been exposed and the
details of one lends credence to the details of another.

If only modern Mormons would meet us half-way, and admit
that at least SOME of this reported abuse was real and
requires an apology. But they won't. Smith was the closest
thing to divine perfection that this world has ever seen,
yadda, yadda, yadda.... It makes me sick.

UD

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Posted by: alphonso ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 12:58PM

I can remember being about 19-20 and getting into tscc history, which was back in the early 90's. I started reading what I could of church history. I was having difficulty because the whole js story seemed completely white-washed. TSCC portrayed him as so perfect without a flaw of any kind. I knew they had to be hiding things.

I ended up going to a lds-oriented bookstore and buying whatever books I could find which didn't help because they're all written as faith promoting and don't question anything. Those books didn't question anything either. Eventually I kinda gave up trying to find anything real. I lived in the mid-west and I had no way of finding alternate more accurate histories.

Finally, the internet became more robust and I discovered D. Michael Quinn and "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View" in the early 2000's. JS became more real and strangely enough his book strengthened my testimony. I figured if someone that screwed up could create a church and produce the BoM, it must be true. haha. I stopped looking around at that point cause I didn't know there was more to learn.

A couple of years ago I became interested in abuses of power by elected officials. I started reading books on how politicians influenced people to gain power and office. I read about all the shenanigans and promises people would make with each other to bring themselves into prominence and power. This opened the door for me to understand later how tscc could have come about.

Then, a couple of months ago, I got to a point where I had to recognize tscc wasn't true. I was examining tscc's past politics regarding homosexuality. I realized how so called 'prophets' had driven so many youth and adults into suicide or homelessness. I began to question if these were 'prophets' or not. Once I started opening that can of worms, I realized the story went even farther the more I examined. I discovered mormonthink, exmormon.org, and so on.

I keep wanting to learn more because the further it goes the more real it all becomes. I keep discovering little pockets of belief in me of tscc's good intentions that need to be purged.

I absolutely cannot stand the tscc HQ's and the general leadership. However, I still love my ward. I have known them my whole life and they have never been anything but kind and good to me. Thus, I still attend for now. But I am able to attend and reject the garbage they preach. I also stopped going to the temple and paying tithing since thats a waste. I don't care to pay for a large expensive home for a puffed up piece of sh!t to live in, hunting lodges, mega malls, cattle ranches, or whatever else they set their hearts on.

I do thank all the people out there who dig this stuff up and post it for public consumption or go to the trouble of writing books and other scholarly articles. If the truth didn't come out, I'd still be deluded into thinking I'm a piece of organic garbage who doesn't deserve to live. Its amazing what you're willing to believe about yourself when you have grown up never knowing anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2013 01:00PM by alphonso.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 05:58PM

>I keep wanting to learn more because
>the further it goes the more real it
>all becomes. I keep discovering little
>pockets of belief in me of tscc's good
>intentions that need to be purged.

There's no doubt that individual Mormons can
occasionally act with sympathy, goodness
and the best of intentions. I have even
witnessed that fact in the context of
Sunday meetings at a Mormon ward. So, I
can believe that good intentions exist
and that relatively good results can
come about now and then.

I can also believe that a stopped clock
is right twice a day. In my discarding
reliance upon such a clock -- in my cursing
all of the times that its wrong information
led me astray ..... Yes, I can hold onto
that one little pocket of belief. And I
can also throw the damned clock in the
trash, while I admit it was right in those
very few instances.

Nothing wrong with that.

UD

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: October 30, 2014 12:27PM

alphonso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> A couple of years ago I became interested in
> abuses of power by elected officials. I started
> reading books on how politicians influenced people
> to gain power and office. I read about all the
> shenanigans and promises people would make with
> each other to bring themselves into prominence and
> power. This opened the door for me to understand
> later how tscc could have come about.

The whole Sarah Pratt episode is so very reminiscent of Bill Clinton in the 1980s (Arkansas) and the 1990s (Washington). Using his power, prestige, and personna to persuade or coerce women into compliance and silence. Then his political apparatus follows up, slimes the victim, all so very necessary "for the good of the church/party/cause."

Hillary Clinton as Emma Smith?

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Posted by: intjsegry ( )
Date: May 02, 2013 04:47PM

I have to stop reading this stuff. I keep wanting to post it all over my facebook... and I just know what that would do... I just get so... angry that my family and friends consider me the lost one, and won't even read this stuff... or worse, do, and justify it to keep on going.

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Posted by: Hugh ( )
Date: October 30, 2014 12:45PM

I was riveted, and was going to say, "send more", but then I see you sent more. Will come back to read this. This is similar, as you say to Rigdon, but also, Martha Brotherton do you agree?

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