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Posted by: darth jesus ( )
Date: April 28, 2013 07:26PM

is this accurate? please discuss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Fifty

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Posted by: lulu not logged in ( )
Date: April 28, 2013 07:32PM

Mormonism wanted a New World Order from the moment it took over the Big Family commune in Kirtland OH and called it the Law of Consecration.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: April 28, 2013 07:50PM

darth jesus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is this accurate? please discuss.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Fifty


They took very seriously the idea that the Mormon Church
was the little stone, cut from the mountain, not by human
hands, which would roll through the world, crushing all
other institutions under its holy weight.

The pre-millennial Political Kingdom of God on Earth.

And, as President Taylor once boasted: "The Kingdom or nothing!"

Scary stuff.

UD

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Posted by: spwdone ( )
Date: April 28, 2013 10:03PM

Mormonism still wants a new world order. Were you not listening in Primary & Sunday School?

A world where everyone fits into the same little box and does exactly what TSCC "suggests" about everything. Lovely, right?!

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 08:26AM

The FLDS and other fundamentalist mormons still claim to use this plan. It means that individual members depend on the group for their living needs. There's no legal ownership of anything but everyone is expected to work to their full capacity and trust the leader to treat them well.

The United Order of mormonism is socialism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2013 09:15AM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 12:27AM

Secrets leaking from the Council of Fifty (and being printed in the Nauvoo Expositor) is why Joseph Smith had a court date in Carthage. The charge was treason.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 09:24AM


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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 01:44PM

It was upgraded to treason when he called out the Nauvoo militia to prevent the state militia from taking him out of Nauvoo.

(This is all relatively new information to me so I may have a few things not right.) A big issue was the Nauvoo charter which allowed its local courts to conduct habeas Corpus hearings and summarily dismiss charges, even county, state and federal charges. From what I've read it was a travesty of justice. All charges against Joseph and his favorites would be dismissed. Looking at the History of Church volumes online, a lot of sketchy fraud charges involving bum promissory notes and the like were disposed of in this manner.

The Council of Fifty were writing up which laws would be nullified, i.e. which laws don't apply to the Kingdom of God. Joseph Smith was setting himself up to be untouchable by laws and the legal system.

But his reign was probably coming to an end. The State legislature was debating the end of the Nauvoo charter. The Nauvoo Expositor in its first edition hinted that Joseph Smith had self declared himself a monarch (which he had) and hinted that in the second edition more details of his combined church and state would be revealed.

The city council under JSJ declared the Nauvoo Expositor a public nuisance and they staged a riot, and destroyed the presses. The county issued a charge for rioting, but the Nauvoo courts dismissed the charges.

The Illinois governor assembled the state militia, and Joseph assembled the Nauvoo militia and we're looking at a civil war.

For whatever his reasons - JSJ submitted to county authority. Maybe he just decided the jig was up. Once the Nauvoo charter was revoked he would be facing all kinds of charges. (The Nauvoo charter revocation was completed Jan. 24, 1845.) [Add: Or maybe he had faith that the Nauvoo Legion or the Danites would rescue him after the state militia dispersed. Anyone know?]

Once in custody the state said that calling out the Nauvoo legion was treason against the state of Illinois which was a capital offense, and pressed these charges (because of double jeopardy laws they may not have been able to charge rioting because the Nauvoo courts already dismissed those charges).

Frankly I would have preferred a long long trial with every little creepy detail about the secret church and government practices being exposed.

I think that's how things went down, but I may need correcting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2013 01:55PM by crom.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 11:23PM

I read that someone was sent to bring the Nauvoo Legion to rescue JS, but it somehow never happened. I wondered why that was.. Perhaps the capital offense talk cowed them. I had theorized that maybe the person who was sent to call the legion was perhaps disaffected with JS and so didn't do it.

The Warsaw City Legion was guarding the jail, and the story has it that one or more of them fired the fatal shots as Joe jumped out the window. The city of Warsaw had other beefs with Joe and Nauvoo about river trade issues too.

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Posted by: darth jesus ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 12:37AM

so what's your take against the argument that mormonism never really tried a nwo?

if ld$ cult tried it once, why wouldn't they try again?

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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 05:43PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodemocracy

" in a theodemocratic system, God was to be the ultimate power and would give law to the people which they would be free to accept or reject, presumably based on republican principles. Somewhat analogous to a federal system within a theodemocracy, sovereignty would reside jointly with the people and with God. Various inconsistencies exist in this framework, such as how humans could resist the laws of an all-powerful God, or how citizens could be assured that the authority of God rather than the humans interpreting His will was being exercised."

" It is known that the Council of Fifty, which Smith organized in Nauvoo, Illinois in 1844, was meant to be the central municipal body within such a system. The Council was led by Smith and included many members of the LDS central leadership. However it also included several prominent non-Mormons. Full consensus was required for the Council to pass any measures, and each participant was encouraged and in fact commanded to fully speak their minds on all issues brought before the body. Debate would continue until consensus could be reached. However, if consensus could not be reached, then Smith would "seek the will of the Lord" and break the deadlock through divine revelation."

So pretty much Joe is the law and the church and the government and . . .

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 09:05AM

Ditto for Brigham Young, with a litle more practicality in the visions of bossery and less emphasis on work avoidance.

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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 11:44AM

His church was practicing polygamy which he kept secret from 98% of the members. And he had established a secret government that declared him Prophet Priest and King of the world.

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Posted by: metatron ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 12:08PM

In my youth, I thought that someday the world would be governed by Mormons, and that I would be one of the people doing the governing, because I was of the tribe of Ephraim. Sounds pretty vague, now that I think of it. Nobody ever fleshed out the logistics of such a world government. However, I did feel very special, on account of my Ephraimiteness.

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Posted by: schweizerkind ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 12:38PM


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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 01:12PM

schweizerkind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://books.google.com/books/about/Quest_for_Empi
> re.html?id=wduPAAAAMAAJ
>
> Good-read-ly yrs,
>
> S


Indeed -- it is the primary disclosure of the fact that the
Mormon leaders were attempting to institute a far reaching
theocratic rule. Possibly they did not expect to gain control
of the entire world, but they were ready and willing to grab
as much of it as they could.

The writer clears up a MAJOR POINT that the Mormon leaders
tried to keep obscure ----> that the Mormon Kingdom has two
consecutive aspects: 1. Pre-millennial and 2. Millennial.

For public consumption the LDS leaders put out doctrine and
policy that seems to say, "We will only take control of
the civil governments AFTER the second coming of Christ,
during the 1000-year "Millennium."

But, for actual Mormon expansion, the pre-millennial
Political Kingdom of God on Earth calls for increasing LDS
civil rule, wherever possible -- "building the kingdom"
in anticipation of instituting an even greater theocracy
In the future.

Today try have Utah, Idaho, Arizona, and parts of Nevada
and Wyoming, along with Western Samoa. And the one place
where they had an actual, overt theocracy (Deseret) ceased
to exist in the 1850s.

Probably the old plan has fully failed now. There never will
be a King Romney nor One Mighty and Strong to extend Mormon
rule world-wide.

But don't let them try and fool you, by their saying that
they have never tried to become your civil masters.

UD

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 05:48PM

I just don't think TSCC has been or is intelligent enough to pull off a new world order conspiracy. Sorry, I just don't see it.

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Posted by: darth jesus ( )
Date: April 30, 2013 12:05AM

i don't think they'll pull it off either. BUT! it doesn't mean they don't *want* to do try.

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Posted by: Carol Y. ( )
Date: April 29, 2013 10:36PM


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