Hi everyone,

I'm a nonbeliever but I haven't had the guts to tell my family, so I sent my mission paperwork. I was called to go to the Mexico Guadalajara mission.
What do I have to do now? I don't want to go on a mission. I'd love to know Mexico, but without having to follow ridiculous rules.

I need advice.

There have been some that have served missions in disbelief and the result has been rather severe cases of PTSD.

Please reconsider, for your own long term health. Not worth it.

Dude, I started doubting on my mission. I still tried to believe, but I got this funky nervous twitch by the time I got back. You will be brainwashed. There are so many things I wish I'd done instead!

Also, IT WILL ONLY GET HARDER TO GET OUT FROM THIS POINT ON! Get brave now!

We are trained to never turn down a request. I'm still just barely trying to get over that 10 years later! If you can get out now, you will have a normal life!

Entendiste?

¿Tienes algún método que me ayude a "crecerme" los cojones? XD

Dude, where are you from? XD

Start saying "no", they'll grow. You will choose to survive once the heat is turned up. Don't be afraid, be excited, your adventure is just beginning. This is great that you are able to know Mormonism will not be your belief system at 18. What a privilege! Make the most of this.

They can't send you or keep you there without your permission. They make it hard to say no, but they can't take that away from you.

If you go, that's not the end of the world either, but it is a soul-corroding waste of time, and there are easier ways to learn Spanish.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> there are easier ways to learn Spanish.


Berlitz has centers all over the world; go there instead. Seriously.

Figure it out. What kind of man are you, will you be? The word "no" comes to mind.

It is nice to agree with you sometimes.

Say no. Deal with it.

You could confess to your bishop that you are not worthy to go on a mission because you have been having lots of premarital sex with a non-Mormon girl in the next town.

Or, simply tell the truth, that you don't believe and you are not going.

To expand on that, there was a recent story recently about a person that was preparing to go on a mission and when he declared his support for same-sex marriage, he was told he could not serve.

If you share these similar views, you can honestly declare it and it may be them telling you that you can't go, instead of the other way around.

The truth is more likely to get you a pass than the pre-marital sex. He could "forgive" you and tell you that the misison will be good for you.

Then you tell him it was with his daughter, you got her pregnant, but not to worry, the two of you handled it with what is called a malt liquor abortion.

Do not go. DO NOT GO.

This will not be an opportunity to spend two years learning about Mexico, its people and culture. It will be two years of having your sense of self worth stripped away from you every damn day. It will be two years of having your individuality shot down at every turn. It will be two years of misery.

You absolutely cannot sacrifice yourself because your family believes in a lie.

Mexico, is that where hundreds of people get killed every year in bloody gang wars?

I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you but there must come a moment when you take your life into your own hands. Might as well be now and save you two years of your life that you will never get back.

Foreigners rarely get killed. That isn't an issue.

Don't accept the mission call.

Instead, go down to your local Peace Corps office and sign up there. If you want to go to a third world country and help people, the Peace Corps will hook you up, only you won't have to brainwash other people and you won't have to be subjected to brainwashing yourself. You won't get paid, but you won't have to pay to go either. And you can wear what you want, and see who you want and do what you want (within the constraints of what is available to you in whatever hell hole they send you to). Also, you can quit and come home any time you feel like it.

Or. Get a job, save up some money, and go spend your next summer vacation in Mexico. There's lots of ways to see and know Mexico without selling out your soul to some cult. Be creative and resourceful. You could just book a plane ticket and hit up the youth hostels.

It doesn't make sense to me that kids would save up so much money to go on missions to remote corners of the earth, but they'll let some nameless faceless old dudes in Utah decide where they will go and how they will behave. If you're going to pony up for a mission, take that money that you earned and go do what YOU want to do. Do it now, while you're young and you don't have kids and a spouse and a mortgage to worry about. It that means college, go to college. If that means "backpack around Europe," then do that. Once you are 18, it's your decision to do what you want with your money.

But you are going to have to bite the bullet and not accept the mission call and not go and that means you will probably have to "come out" about your disbelief, at least to your family. You may have to worry about financing your travels/education on your own. I recommend that, in fact. That way your family can't hold your hostage to their belief system and you can go start your adult life and be your awesome self.

Peace Corps requires a degree.

Peace Corps doesn't require a degree, but it does require credentials, and some sort of proof that you would have something to contribute. (I could easily argue that a degree shouldn't count as proof that you are a useful human being, based solely on my experience with other PC volunteers, but whatever.)

A fellow volunteer I served with had dropped out in seventh grade - but he ran his own business successfully before applying to PC.

For anyone else thinking about applying to PC: I should also add that since the recession, the number of people applying to PC has skyrocketed, at the same time the gov't has cut funding to the program and reduced the number of placements - so it's quite competitive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:38PM by nailamindi.

Eh...sort of. You are talking about exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself. Maybe 1% of all PCVs are people with experience. Most PCVs are recruited from college campuses and they are expected to have their degree finished.

Your friend is in a very rare position and is not in any way even close to the norm.

Shucks, thanks for clarifying my clarification of your blanket statement.

I was a PCV too. You just have to be 18 to serve in the Peace Corps. A college degree really helps, but if you have skills that are in demand, technically you don't have to have one. Realistically, though, if you're very young you'll need a degree.

Peace Corps definitely has its problems, but you will learn about your host country and they do give you a small stipend, health care, and a readjustment allowance. It's a great opportunity to see the world, too. I spent a month bumming around Europe on a train when I was done with my service. Had a blast!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 03:56PM by knotheadusc.

I know you were in the PC :)

Things have changed a lot since you were a PCV. It is nearly 100% mandatory for PCVs to have a degree now.

If you think you will get to go and see Mexico the way you WANT to see mexico, you are wrong. Your time will be filled SO much with meaningless work, you will not even appreciate where you are.

Let alone the risk in getting abducted, held for ransom, killed in crossfire of some gang war....

Time to nut up and be a man. It will be an absolute miserable two years if you don't believe. It was bad enough for ME, and I BELIEVED... mostly.

Damn, I can't tell you how much I wish I had done this instead of going on a mission.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:33PM by almostthere.

Hey, NotBraveEnough, you made me want to post this.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,871475

Review the Letter to CES...powerful tool and could solidify your position.

It's even worse that it's Mexico, because you will telling many people that they are lamanites, that they are actually jews from the middle east; if your parents or bishop go with the church's new line distancing themselves from that previous statement and tell you that you WON'T be preaching that, it's just worse for them becasue that's what they were all taught to believe, and it's either true or it isn't.

You may be threatened with all kinds of things, but the church has no power over you--and if your family tries to shun you, then christian are they, really.

It's a tough call, but if you don't believe, don't suffer.

I went to Peru and learned a language, and I learned how to sell snake oil. Other than that, it was hell. I loved Peru and I still speak Spanish, but at what cost? I still have nightmares at times, forty years later.

Study Spanish in college. Be an exchange student. Go surfing in Mexico. Don't look stupid in a white shirt and tie while kids yell insults to you.

A mission is hell. It is a lie wrapped in a lie of service. To surrender your life totally to a cult is just stupid. I still rue the pain and suffering inflicted upon me by the deceitful cult and the lost years of my youth.

Marshall

As someone who has somewhat recently gotten back from an LDS mission, DO NOT GO WHATSOEVER. Standing up toyour family here is way easier than being brainwashed in the MTC. They make you bear your testimony hundreds of times before you go, and focus on making you stop thinking for yourself. It's a sham. And you don't need a mission to learn spanish. I learned 2 languages before I even left for my mission.

What missionaries forget, and are trained to overlook, is that they are adults.

There is no contract that requires you to do anything on your mission. You choose. YOu can come and go as you like. They can't send you home if you don't want to go. They can't make you stay if you want to go home.

They can kick you out of their property/rentals, revoke your permit to proselyte but that's about it. Depending the on country and the type of visa you have, that permit being revoked might then require you to leave, but that will vary from country to country.

They can play games about your being "released" as a missionary too, but that's all it is, games.

Go if you want to try it out. Leave when you're done, not when they say you're done. You don't need their permission to quit.

SAY NO!!!!!
I've said NO a huge number of times. If your family insists on you going to the MTC, tell the MTC president you DO NOT BELIEVE, DO NOT WANT TO SERVE A MISSION, AND WILL RUN AWAY AS THE FIRST CHANGE YOU GET. You will quickly be released.

What do you want to do?
It's entirely up to you. Your decision. You've got your big boy pants on now, so step up to the plate and be decisive.

It's not a contest, or a poll. This is your life. You spend it as you choose.

If you decide not to go, you can go to the bishop and tell him you realized after serious contemplation and prayer (good to add prayer in there) that you just can't come up with a testimony and it would be a sham for you to to on a mission.

Then step back and let the consequences fly.
They could get nasty.'

Other people's comments are coming from them, and are not about you, but about them, their ideas, their experiences.

Try your best to stay calm and be grateful to your parents, and let them know you are trying to have a testimony but it's just not working.

Or something like that.

My best to you.

+1 This is your choice. I think the above is good advice.

I went to Japan on my mission (Hence my screen name) and loved the place and the people. But I learned more about the country visiting later as a non-missionary than I ever did as a missionary. I believed then and even so I felt like a salesman and a strange foreigner. When I went there on my own terms, I finally belonged.

As much as I generally liked being on my mission, if I'd have had to do the two years as an unbeliever, it would have been unbearable. Your fellow elders will be insane, brainwashed automatons and it will drive you crazy.

You're an adult now, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Seize the day and do what your heart AND your brain tell you is right. Free agency is a wonderful thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 03:51PM by takafumi.

Please don't go!!! Own your lack of belief. People are deeply conditioned to accept authority figures, to the point of doing what goes totally against their grain, and the LDS church knows that - the familial, peer, and societal pressure is enormous and they use that well. But, if you don't believe you CAN'T go. It will be hard now, but in the long run it will be worth it a hundred times over.

If you aren't a believer Do NOT GO. Gee, I want to crawl through my internet cable into your room and tell you so much – I could go on for days.

I’ve had dozens of Elders in my home over the past few years. Today’s missionaries here have just received new cell phones (one per companionship). These are customized LDS cell phones with GPS. The mission president (MP) can see on a special computer program where everyone is 24/7. They are literally seeking to CONTROL all aspects of mission life. No more pocket planners you write in. All appointments and goals are inputted into the device FOR THE MP to look at 24/7. It’s the gestapo. I just cringe watching the Elders immaturity in life accept these changes as inspired. They are clueless – just full of giddiness to have techy toys.

You are young and have no idea what is about to happen. You MUST SIGN and ACCEPT your mission call in a response back to the church's missionary department. That creates a "legal contract" with LDS inc. Years ago you did not agree to or sign anything. A mission was serving the Lord. It has developed into a huge business. I can only speculate that law suits for "emotional, physical, or spiritual distress" in years gone by have forced these legalistic procedures.

While on your mission, the LDS church OWNS YOU and you will never be able to sue them for any problem whatsoever. Do you know what that means? You must do EVERYTHING they say. The MP rules supreme. He has control over every aspect of your life: mind, physical conditions, emotional/spiritual and physical health. He has control of medical decisions and keeping ALL information from your parents. Most of them are businessmen etc. controlled by a pyramid system of LDS Priesthood authorities all the way to the top. You lose all individuality and are subject to severe discipline by the MP if he wants. You’re volunteering to pay your way for THEM to tell you what to do 24/7.

They tell you where to live, when to arise and sleep, what to read and not read, how much time for meals, how to dress, what not to wear on p-days, how to act think or talk, how little faith you have or lack of obedience when things are tough and what “works” to convince others to accept Mormonism.

As a missionary you teach the whitewashed, sanitized version of church history. Once someone is baptized they eventually get stuck with the unsavory parts you were NOT instructed to tell them. It’s deception!

You’ll have to go to the temple. Go on line. Search and watch the entire endowment ceremony on You Tube. It’s not from God. I used to like it as a believer, now I loathe it for what it is. Also, study up on Tom Phillips at MormonThink, he’s the editor. Read about his story and listen to podcasts of his second anointing. Educate yourself. Then you will be more informed and realize the scam the temple really is.

Back on topic – on your mission – there will be weekly district meetings, play acting, reviewing Preach My Gospel in skits over and over. GA's will visit and push you. The MP will push and PUSH and P U S H for baptism numbers, service hours, member visits, discussions with members, NUMBERS – it doesn’t stop. If numbers aren’t good the MP can take away ALL pleasures of seeing the country, stop activities to lighten your day (sports etc.) and TOTALLY restrict p-day activities.

Today, as in decades gone by the goal is still the same – baptism numbers. That equals power in the world to the GAs and tithing dollars. It’s a business. I just learned the truth about the church 4-months ago. The church has covered up the true factual history. Go to MormonThink and read, READ, R E A D ! You do not want to teach something that isn’t true – and you are not a believer anyway. Why torture yourself?

Listen to everyone’s advice on this board. There is great WISDOM in following the advice of those of us who have lived through the mistake of a mission and the church, either as converts or lifetime BIC members.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 03:39PM by jiminycricket.

jiminycricket Wrote:
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> You are young and have no idea what is about to
> happen. You MUST SIGN and ACCEPT your mission call
> in a response back to the church's missionary
> department. That creates a "legal contract" with
> LDS inc. Years ago you did not agree to or sign
> anything.

It's not binding. You receive nothing from what you offer. There is no consideration on their part that you receive so it's not binding. It's an illusion to build the mental mindgames.

Play their game. Treat it like a vacation. Let them yell and scream then do what you want.

The problem with that is that the missionary is never alone and may be partnered with people who are fanatical about the work, tattle tales, or even mentally or physically ill. And you aren't even in love with this person, so there's not even that to help with living joined at the hip with someone.

Even if people can steal away for a bit, it is not any sort of a vacation or sabbatical.

Plus, it looks bad on a resume.

You are going to have to develop the guts to tell your family that you're not going. Welcome to adulthood. Disappointing your parents is a normal developmental step in becoming an autonomous adult.

I don't think that you need to tell them that you don't believe just yet. Just tell them that you've changed your mind and you'd rather (go to school, work, join the military, etc.) Be prepared to repeat that a good deal. If they ask why, say, that's what I want to do. Missions are a voluntary activity. You are not being conscripted, much as it feels that way. President Monson never went on a mission. Ditto for certain apostles and GAs. They didn't go, and neither do you have to go.

Learn how to stand up to pressure now. It's a valuable life skill. Remember, not everyone has to be a fan. It is okay for people to be unhappy with you. They will get over it.

NotBraveEnough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm a nonbeliever but I haven't had the guts to
> tell my family, so I sent my mission paperwork. I
> was called to go to the Mexico Guadalajara
> mission.
> What do I have to do now? I don't want to go on a
> mission. I'd love to know Mexico, but without
> having to follow ridiculous rules.
>
> I need advice.

Tell them you've decided not to go.

That seems pretty straightforward to me.

So what will your parents do if/when you tell them you are not going on the mission?

My best guess is that the worst thing that could happen is that they kick you out of the house. That would mean you would have to figure out how to support yourself and find a place to live.

That is a far better fate than having to serve a two year mission in a third world country when you don't believe in the church and don't want to go on the mission.

It's your choice, but if you don't stand up to your parents and just say *NO MISSION* then you will bitterly regret your lack of courage.

By the time I reached age 17 I had quit attending church and was going about living like my nevermo friends. That should be your goal for the near future.

Say no to the mission and say no to attending church meetings. Tell your parent that they need to abide by the 11th Article of Faith.

The mission was nothing what I thought it would be like, it was in no way a vacation, no way like an EFY or like seminary, nor did I have time to go "site seeing." Its basically a sweat shop, literally I would sweat all day walking in extreme hot temperatures in Brazil. And it was a military I was constantly getting yelled at by leaders over stupid numbers, I couldn't believe it! If you're not producing the numbers they want you will not enjoy it, and even when you are its never enough!!!

Dude, you are going to be an unpaid door to door salesmen 12 hours a day, 6.5 days of the week for TWO YEARS for a product no one wants (except for an occasional poor and/or lonely person you can arm twist) that not even YOU believe in. Not only that but you are gonna be hounded by your mission leaders on a monthly, weekly and even daily basis for needing to produce more and more baptisms.

Suck it up man. You are an ADULT and you CAN say no. Whatever consequences you worry about from refusing to go are NOTHING compared to what I just mentioned above.

If you want an experience, go on a vacation, join a non-profit or the military, or go to college in some other state or country.

Going to the MTC and coming home 3 weeks into it will be even worse than coming clean now.

It's not fair to yourself and its not fair to them to go on a mission as a non-believer.

If you go.....just be prepared to be very hungry, very tired, and have stomach/ inestinal problems for potentially the rest of your life.

You want to enjoy Mexico without the above? Go on a cruise or take a vacation.....and just be careful what you eat and drink.

Don't go kid. You don't believe, don't waste two years of your precious one and only life doing something you don't believe in.
Do a search under my posting name and you will find lots of posts about how his mission left my son with life-long illness and in constant pain. These people, higher ups in this so called church, don't care about you, they just want you to bring in more revenue.

I do understand the difficulty of telling your parents of your non-belief. I had to tell my husband and honestly didn't know if our marriage would survive. (It did).

But this is YOUR life, now is as good a time as any to develop courage and integrity. Unless you're going to live your life by other people's rules and expectations you're going to have to have those qualities. Show yourself the respect of following your own beliefs and convictions. Your family might not like it but they will survive.

Your life and youth are too precious to waste on someone else's dream.

I looked for "European View" in the searchbox, but I didn't find your story. Do you have the link?

Thanks Jesus Smith. Here in another time zone I was tucking myself into bed. And I'm not sure if I can do links

Don't go. You need to have the painful conversation with your parents or suffer through 24 months of utter misery.

If you really want to go to Mexico, go study abroad. You can learn Spanish and live in Mexico without going on a mission.

Remember, you may anger and disappoint your family, but you will eventually do that anyway when you leave the church. Putting it off for 2 years by serving a mission will not help anyone, especially you.

I agree 100% with this advice.

I studied abroad in a Spanish speaking country and had the time of my life. I lived with a host family (that was the cheapest option), so I was able to learn Spanish very quickly. I saw the country and the surrounding countries as well. I fell in love with the people and the culture. All while earning credit for my college degree.

Any benefits to serving a mission can be found elsewhere, without all the psychological, emotional, and physical trauma.

I do understand the fallout with the parents and other social consequences, but its best to get it over with now since you don't believe.

Best wishes.

I was in a similar situation to you not long ago.

It's your decision, but I would recommend you don't go, you might regret it for the rest of your life.

Some people who don't want to go on missions sometimes go and end up enjoying it, but if you are 100% sure that you don't believe, that's unlikely to be the case for you.

From one who used to be spineless, it's worth being true to yourself and live according to who you are and what you want to be. Eventually, you'll have to face others anyway -- do it now for your own peace of mind and let the chips fall where they may. It's your life!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 06:38PM by openeyes.

No time to read the wealth of replies, so I'm giving you advice I am sure is not above.

Just tell them you masturbate and plan to continue. Say you don't want to talk about it any more--it's too personal and you are struggling with your decision.

Then just shut up and let him struggle.

If you tell them the above you nip the gossip in the bud because the bishop will be so shocked and embarrassed he will make up a cover story for you.

By the way, all the above about being your own man and standing for something apply to you; however, you have to be sick of being their b*tch before that will happen. It will come. It is already brewing and everyone's timeline is different.

Best

Anagrammy

PS. Under no circumstances do you go - to any country or to a domestic mission. You can be psychologically traumatized in Canton, Ohio just the same as Bolivia. Read some of the exmormon's books on Amazon. Read "Heaven Up Here" and "Passion of Raptor Jesus" - both about missions. Be well-informed and DO NOT GO. You only have one body and one mind--don't risk your health.

Do you have a place to live where your non-belief is supported? Perhaps you can be ready to move the day you let family know you are not going because you don't believe. It will be easier for you if you have a nuetral or supportive place to stay. If you're in UT, there might even be some here to help you for a time.

I haven't read the above comments, but here's my 2 cents. In my opinion, it's an important attribute to have integrity. I think the earlier this is learned, the better. You have to be true to yourself. It takes integrity to stand for what you personally feel is right for you.

Have you ever considered peace corps or Americorps??

Passive aggressively, you could say that you 'sinned' in some manner that would allow for you to have some extra time in not going if you need more time to figure it out or whatever.

A family member was on a mission in Guatemala and had serious stomach bugs/parasites while there, which he brought home with him and had to get treatments from the doctor on. He's still not 'normal' with that system. In every letter that he wrote home, he talked about having 'The BU' (Butt Urine).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 06:24PM by dogeatdog.

This hasn't been mentioned but, while Guadalajara certainly has beauty and rich history, it is a very impoverished place. I trust that when you are there for two years as a missionary, you too will be living an impoverished life. You might die of the shock of it. I couldn't handle it.

If you decide to not go on a mission and let the chips fall where they may resulting in your supposed friends and family being punitive towards you, remember living well is the best revenge.

Enjoy your two year vacation, learn a language and have fun. Your comps can be corrupted with little effort.

Given jimineycricket's post about the church's use of tracking technology, contracts and so on, I don't think you can think of it as a two year vacation any more. You would have endless conflict with your MP and possibly companions.

When I go on vacation I like to choose where I go, who I go with and when I come home again.

Don't go, you will be forced to live an uncomfortable lie. You be asked to bear your testimony several times a day, and to tell people you know things are true that you don't believe. This is poisonous to the soul. If your parents won't support your decision not to go, try to find another relative, school teacher, family friend who can help you break the news to your parents and help them work out a plan for your life that you want to live.

I know it is hard to go against your parents, but the truth is the world will not end. I had a huge rift with my mother when she found out that I was having sex with my bf when I was 20 (now if she had found out that I actually had sex just before I graduated HS, the explosion would have been bigger). She was mad as hell at me and would not let my bf in the house for 6 months but eventually she got over it.

The danger to your health is very real. The danger of chronic long term health problems is very real. I am now middle aged with chroic pain and I wish I could have my 18 year old body so that I could take a step without pain. Don't ruin your body, you are going to need it for a long time, and the morg, or your parents, are not worthy of that sacrifice. Selling snake oil is nothing to be proud about.

The area to which you will be going has very poor people. Please don't delulde these people, whose life is so difficult already, with an organization that will take their money and give them nothing. To lie daily sucks your soul and you never know where that will lead psychologically.

By all means, do some travelling when you can. I went to a University that had a study abroad program and I was in London for a semester and then a friend came over and we spent the summer hitch hiking around Europe. We stayed in youth hostels and it was fabulous. Nothing has ever given me such a sense of self, we were all on our own and we learned how to cope. We traveled cheaply, spending $10 a day (this being 1982) for all our expenses. We were young and healthy and it was wonderful.

I know how convenient it is to let your parents have their delusions about you, that you still believe. But, eventually they would figure it out and there would be the big talk where you have dissapointed them. It might as well be now when you have so much to lose (time, personal integrity, and health) then to suffer through a mission and then have them figure it out. At your age, you have not had to deal with huge issues that require you to take a stand, so it is rather scary to think that you have to oppose your parents and dissapoint them.

I am sorry you have to go through this but this is one situation where you have to do what you have to do. You might not think you have the strenght to oppose the church and your parents, but you do. When it comes down to it, you will find that strength, because YOU are worth fighting for. This fight will be about who you are and how you will lead your life. Keep coming back here and you will find many wise people who have experienced missions and the horrible side effects. Please read the two books mentioned and other's stories. I wish you the best of luck and a future that YOU determine.

I could of become a rock star, almost was famous anyway later but the origianal band I left for my mission, the one of my childhood that was bound for recognition, all broke up because of the mission. Tho I completed less than a year and came home
it was still a great experience, even tho I was horny for the young land lady where I stayed by end of mission and my my loving mission pres which he was said by revelation I needed to be married to satisfy my sexual needs as a matter of sanity than suffer mental illness for having super sexual needs. Tho I was worthy I married from saint to porno star devil, all in the church until my final marrige, a saint again but would rather choose me than the church if forced to, tho the sex is naught
the love is strong.....Still to be a rock star without sex is
just to much pain unless I want to be a sexless rock star or a cheating in marrige rock star...

If you mastubate 4 times a day on a mission, and knew that you should defenetly not go, as your companion will follow you even to the bathroom and listen into your panting....

Any sexual overdrive needs become a rockstar than a missionary,
join a band or a creative group, but keep it all in moderation unless like David Bowie took drugs to the extreme and survived,
what works for you is your choice. But a short term mission
doesnt mean dishonerable but just say illness set in and come home reasonably honerable and if your parents cant accept that
to fucking bad, dumb ass parents.

Feed your sincerity and purity with more mormon lies or
stop think and let that sincerity and purity lead you to a good woman in or out of the church even an ex porno star like me,that I never regret save it be not worked out but the experience was worth it and so is mission for that matter even if its bullshit, what else will you do if your mind is made up, its better than sitting in bar drowning sorrows unless you truly want to be a rock star, then dont go on mission...You end up a rock robot on your mission.

Larry.

I met a PCV in Ulsan, Korea while on my mission. His name was Mark. Mark taught English all day and enjoyed the night life in the evenings. He wore normal comfortable clothes from the western world. He had a girlfriend and spoke Korean as well as us. Man, I envied that dude.

Unfortunately, you came seeking advice AFTER receiving your mission call. That makes life a little rougher as I am sure there is a flurry of excitement surrounding you from family, friends, church folk, etc. Its a bitch that you are most likely being bombarded with advice, tid-bits, "You'll need this", "Let's go buy this" from everyone who is preparing you to go.

My heart goes out to you. As one who has gone, and later walked off his mission (after five weeks in the MTC), I am more than qualified to say this - - It is much easier not to go than to go and come home.

That being said, now that you are in it this deep, how do you keep from going? There are those who like to say sh*t like "Be a man...tell the church to stick it...just say no!!" Easier said than done. A little delusional as well and spoken by those who have never been in your shoes. It sounds like you are quite dependent on your parents/family at the moment. Is there a possibility that if you defiantly state "Hell no I won't go", that could result in you being kicked out and on your own? If you have the savings account and resources necessary to be out on your own then by all means do it. Somehow I am not sensing you are in that type of position though, so to do so would be pure foolishness.

You need to buy some time. If I were you I would tell my Bishop (and later my parents perhaps with the Bishop's help) that you are not prepared or in the proper state of mind to go AT THIS TIME. Note the last three words of that sentence. As long as there is HOPE that you will go at some time in the future, people will "work" with you (as opposed to booting you out). Of course everyone will try to convince you that you are ready and can handle things, but stick to your guns!! This may buy you six months to a year. In that time, get a job, work, save every dime. Explore your options - - Is there a friend or sympathetic family member who can take you in should you be booted out of the house once you announce you will not be serving a mission? If you choose not to serve a mission, then you need to start planning the rest of your life. Work?? School?? When I came off of my mission, the one thing I wished my father would have done is sat down with me, had an adult conversation, and helped me plan a direction for me to take. It never happened. Instead, he tried all he could to make life tougher for me. It was almost like he felt he had to "break" me.

You have a lot to think about. Perhaps you don't have the strength or resources NOT to go. If that is the case, I wish you the best of luck for the next two years. In many ways life will be easier for you when you return. As for my decision, I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror each day. We are all different though, and one way or another pull through.

One last thing - - Don't pay attention to those who say your parents/family will get over it after a while. I walked out of the MTC in 1977 and my family has NEVER gotten over it.

Just sayin'

Best of luck to you.

Excellent advice.

Buy some time while you save money, check out your options, and make a plan.

You have to do what's best for YOU. You're an adult, so treat yourself like one. Trust your own wisdom and maturity, and don't betray yourself by doing something that, deep down, you know isn't right for you.

The family may never get over it (or they might, eventually), but that may be the price of living your own authentic life. I've been there and know -- it can be incredibly tough.

(My very controlling family did not want me to go to college, move out of my hometown, get married, or have children. I chose to do all those things and am glad I lived the life I wanted, not the one they were trying to guilt me into).

You aren't responsible for your family's reaction. It's their choice to react the way they do. They can love you unconditionally -- or not.

I suggest college and a semester abroad -- in Mexico. You can apply for financial aid, even for the semester abroad. Get scholarships if you can, as well.

Once you arrive at a foreign mission, your passport is handed over to the mission president. They make it as difficult as possible for you if you decide to leave early.

Are you one of the 18 year olds that is still in high school? You (and all the other high schoolers) should be enjoying your senior year instead of worry about all this mission stuff.

maeve - you are so right! A few decades ago that wasn't the case. I had to keep my passport with me every time I left the apartment. But TODAY, the MP takes them for control. The church has learned this coercive technique at which point you are a prisoner in a foreign land and can be forced to stay.

Most MP's want to send or let as few missionaries leave prematurely. I believe its a sign to themselves and their superiors of their effectiveness - looking forward to that second anointing when their 3 year term is up!

jiminycricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maeve - you are so right! A few decades ago that
> wasn't the case. I had to keep my passport with me
> every time I left the apartment.

They took my passport over forty years ago and replaced it with a Peruvian Carnet.

I went on a mission almost 20 years ago. It was a HUGE waste of time. And not only back then, but the consequeneces hurt even today.

I am Brazilian, and this pathetic mission will still ruin my life still for years to come.

All of my non-member friends started working for real at 18 (going to college at the same time). I did not start until MUCH later, because of all the lost time preparing for, serving and recovering from this damned mission.

In the meantime, labor laws have changed in Brazil. Now I will retire MUCH later in life as a result of this WASTED mission years. Had I stayed home WORKING and living a normal life, I would be able to retire early and actually enjoy life. Now it's too late.

Damned cult!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If going on a mission isn't something you believe in doing then just don't go.

It's as simple - and as complicated - as that.

You, like most of the rest of the planet, are going to have to deal with disappointing family who had other plans for your life.

This is your life. Live it according to who you are.

On a scale of 1 (being the lowest) and 10 (being the highest) how do you assess your own maturity level? I won't try to guess, but if you can't make your own decision about whether or not to go on a mission, then you need to evaluate your own maturity. Maybe it is not sufficient for a mission.

saviorself Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a scale of 1 (being the lowest) and 10 (being
> the highest) how do you assess your own maturity
> level? I won't try to guess, but if you can't
> make your own decision about whether or not to go
> on a mission, then you need to evaluate your own
> maturity. Maybe it is not sufficient for a
> mission.


No, no, no, that's all wrong. The LESS mature you are, the better you are for a mission. All the immature missionaries ended up loving it, and the mature ones saw it for what it was and hated it, even if they broke the rules they resented being there because they knew they were being used. Anything above a 1 should not go on a mission

Look at the number of posts on this single thread. Look at the advice. Look at the unanimity of it.

Whether or not your family gets over your decision, you have already made it, and are keeping silent about it. That will lead to depression. A family that makes you feel pressure to do what you don't want to has already committed abuse. You need to be a little angrier about that.

Honesty, in the long run, will lead to greater happiness for you. There is only one honest decision.

How is this not locked yet?
Don't go, and good luck!

If I could do it all over... I wouldn't :)

Good luck man!

I agree with others that you will be setting yourself up for a schizophrenic melt-down if you go if you are sure you don't believe.

Without knowing more about your personality and situation I don't know what the best exit strategy would be for you.

It's going to freak out a lot of people close to you, but I don't see any other way to back out of this other than to reveal your unbelief to everyone and deal with the consequences of disappointing them.

Let us know a few more general details and I'm sure the RFM folks will have some more specific advice that could be more helpful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 09:48PM by Brian M.

There are two labels I wish I didn't carry: returned missionary and BYU grad. Others will hold them over you the rest of your life, regardless how little those labels mean to you.

Hurry and START MASTURBATING....

Make it clear you have no desire to stop.

That should do it.

A lot of people carry a lot of guilt with them because they converted otherwise happy people to the cherch on their missions. You can't think of this as a sacrificing yourself to keep you family happy thing in which you are the only one who suffers because of it.

What about the example you are setting for other young men in your ward that don't believe?

And where does it end? Are you going to get married in the temple? Will you baptize your sons and send them on missions because you didn't "Stand for something" now?

First of all, I'm not going to tell you one way or another what you should do. That choice is yours.
But I will tell you a story. Parables are great teaching tools.

Once there was a young man, he grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. All of his family were devout believers. When he was 18 the Stake President severely offended his parents, after that they quit going to church. But this young man kept going by himself and eventually put in his mission papers, he was the oldest of 5, and felt like he needed to be a good example, despite not having a testimony of his own.
He knew his parents weren't devout anymore, but didn't know how far the rabbit hole went. He went through the insane temple (wish he would have walked out too.) and then went to the MTC. When these people say that they brainwash you there, it is not a joke or an exaggeration.
This man left his family and lived at the MTC for 9 weeks, learning Spanish. He enjoyed his stay there, he really liked the people he was in class with and had a good time. But he was brainwashed. When you're there, you are spending 16 hours a day being brainwashed. For 1008 hours straight you are being brainwashed. But the MTC does have some perks, lots of food, lots of friendly people, and the like.
Soon after leaving the MTC, he realized that he was brainwashed, and tried to start thinking straight again. This man continued to his mission in Fresno, California. Where his life became manipulation from others. And soon a downward spiral of depression set into his life. Within 3 months of leaving the MTC the man was ready to take his own life, out of fear and desperation. Thoughts of suicide accompanied him always. After mental breakdowns and the worst month of his life, the man came home.

As you may have guessed, this story is my own. I returned three months ago, and haven't regretted the decision since. I don't know if the church is true or not. I go to single's ward every other week to hit on some hotties.
Here is my advice,
The best way to say "no" that I know of is to say "I don't feel ready yet." Which is true, you're not ready to sacrifice 2 years of your life for something you don't believe in.
If you do go, there are two key things that you NEED to do.
1. Tell your mission president and companion straight up that your aren't an obedient missionary. They can't legally send you home, they cant MAKE you get on the plane. But this will do something very important, it will let everyone know that you are your own person, and your aren't being controlled by them. And this will probably get you a disobedient companion which is a double plus.
2. Don't believe what you are told. Period. My mission president was the most manipulative person I have ever met. He said he loved me all the time. I got hit by a car going 45 MPH and he didn't come see me for two weeks.

I can describe my whole mission experience in one word. Manipulation. Everyone is manipulating everyone else for their own cause. Most of the time that cause is the same.
If you want to know for yourself read Social Engineering: The Art of Human Hacking. by Christopher Hadnagy. Awesome book.
After reading this I realized how deep the social engineering goes in the whole church population. It's insane.
By doing the above two things this should give you some breathing room for yourself to survive.

For me it was the worst few months in my life.

But it's not all bad, you get to meet cool people and hear crazy stories. I learned Spanish in the 4 months I was out and can still communicate with most people. You get to fully experience a different culture and lifestyle. It teaches you to enjoy normal life. I won't take it for granted ever again.
I also learned a lot about myself, and a lot about how people think and what makes them tick.
It's easier to stay here then to go out and come back.

This decision is yours and yours alone. Don't let anyone else tell you differently.

Powerful stuff. Well said - thanks for sharing this with all of us.

+1, since you might not know, Ronin is my son, much of this story is on here, search for "toothpaste"

only thing I would add is that while the SP was truly a dick to my family, he sorta apologized, I even disclosed to him my doubts about JS after he called me to repentance over tithing. now from my sons point of view I could see that as seemingly the reason we stopped going to church, it wasn't the case. By that point I seriously had my own doubts about the church. I just didn't dare say it out loud. my problem was much like yours, I stopped being valiant, but I didn't say much about it.

by going along with the flow, I endorsed this experience, I didn't warn him like I should have, my passive acceptance as you can see was a big damned mistake. If he would have been killed or died I would have never forgiven myself.

the reason why is because at the time I was too chicken to tell him why I really didn't go to church. I was fearful of my parents finding out, my neighbors, etc, etc, when I finally found the cojones to speak up and tell others the truth as I saw it. my life started getting better. was it easy to do so? not in the slightest, it meant my mom and dad would be devastated my family might disown me , even my job was at risk. it was the hardest thing I have ever done. period. but it was the right thing to do and once I did the angst and pressure and everything started getting better.

I give you two phrases to live by and your soul will be at peace.

"this above all else, to thine own self be true."

"do what is right let the consequence follow."

remember what is right and true is what you know. not what others tell you. investigate and validate for yourself, discover what you really know. be true to that and do what is right by that.

good luck with your decision, if you end up without a home or something drastic please post on here, call attention to me, I will do anything I can to help you out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 12:27AM by sparkyguru.

Part of being an adult is realizing that you're in control of your own life. You have to go on a mission because you want to serve a mission. You can't live your life in accordance with what other people think is best for you.

If you want to go, then go. If you don't want to go, then this is your first test as an adult. Simply announce that you're not going.

You can tell them that you don't want to discuss it, or you can tell them the truth. But you could simply say that you are an adult, you've made a decision and that you expect that decision to be respected.

Many times I would give up everything that I have gained in order to not have gone.

The mission was not at all right for me, and I should never have gone.

If you are feeling the same way, please don't go.

I know that it is incredibly difficult, and it would make many things very difficult for a short time.

However, long term, you will most likely be far better off.

Before I left on my mission, I had this "filter" of being able to tell if people would do me harm or not. The mission screwed that ability and insight I had because I had to deal with living with companions with whom I would have never associated. In order to "survive" those times, I had to tell myself that these companions were on a mission for the church and even though they're rough around the edges, we're "supposed" to be together.

One almost hit me, another almost ran away, another one couldn't stop verbally abusing me, while another got assigned to me because she'd hit someone else (I'm female). Those were situations I should never have been placed in, and somehow I survived.

But the filter is gone, even after having left the church 16 years ago. I told myself day-by-day crap to survive for 1 1/2 years. That's some serious brainwashing I subjected myself to. Don't go.

Just tell them you're not ready to go and you don't know when you'll be ready, maybe never. Then make it a clean break six months down the road.

Good luck!

wow, powerful stuff here.....good luck!

If you love people, you would be doing them or their families terrible harm by converting them to Mormonism. Do you want innocent Mexicans caught in the same trap you are in? Do you want to convert a young Mexican man, and have him upset his entire family, and maybe have him feel "lost", the way you are? It is as simple as the Golden Rule. Don't inflict your cult on others. Don't do it for a "vacation". Don't do it for a "growing experience". Don't do it to please your deluded family. By staying home, and freeing yourself, you will be doing a greater service.