The initial thread filled up so here we go with another take-off, so to speak:

I was at Phoenix's Sky Harbor airport recently, waiting for a Delta Airlines flight (which happens to be an airline regularly used to shuttle Mormon GAs around domestically; my grandfather used it when he was Mormon Church prez and came down to Arizona for the inauguration of eventually-impeached and -convicted LDS governor Ev Mecham).

Sitting directly across from me in the gate area, a few feet away and waiting for the same flight, was "Apostle" Russell M. Nelson. I thought it was him (so confirmed a few moments later, as will be explained).

Nelson was dressed as Mormon GAs typically dress--like a mortician. He was wearing a dark blue suit and a starched white shirt with large cuffs sticking out of its sleeves which were festooned with big, round links. He looked old, gray, small and rather grim.

As I watched him, he pulled out a small notebook (not the large Franklin Planner type so popular with many Mormons but, rather, a tiny one with little white pages). He bent over the notebook and began tightly writing in it as he held it in his lap.

At that point, a large woman walked across the waiting area and up to Nelson, bringing along with her a young girl who looked to be about 9 or 10 years old. Nelson glanced up from writing in his little notebook, whereupon the broadly-smiling woman asked if she could introduce the child to him as a General Authority. He smiled tightly, said something that I couldn't make out and remained stiffly seated.

The woman looked down at the shy young girl who was holding back close to the woman and told her that Nelson was "an apostle of our Church."

Nelson did not extend his hand to the girl, kept the obligatory tight smile and when the woman and girl turned around and left after the brief encounter, immediately went back to writing in his little planner. In fact, the woman and girl had taken only a step or two away from Nelson when he resumed scribbling whatever he was crouched over so intently entering in his important little book.

I looked over Nelson's way a few minutes later and he was gone--vanished--no doubt, quietly ushered aboard the first-class section.

It was about as warm a moment as one would see at, say, an ice cube convention.
_____


Note: In response to the above, an RfM poster seemed to question the basic premise that Mormon General Authorities even use Delta Airlines.

"alx71ut" wrote:

"Personally I've never knowingly seen any of the F[irst] P[residency]/Q[uorum of the] 12 on any Delta flights, Delta Sky Clubs or anywhere at any airport the past 4 years. During this time I've flown out of SLC airport at least 80 times, I've been to the Salt Lake Sky Club dozens of times, and I've flown into the SLC airport just as many times."

(“Nelson is 88 years old,” posted by: “alx71ut,” 17 April 2013, http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,863415,863828#msg-863828)


With all due respect to frequent-flyer "alx," I think the historical Mormon Church-Delta Airlines connection is pretty well-known.

Let's start out somewhat indirectly and work toward the center:

SkyWest Airlines, an affiliate connecting airline that works with Delta Airlnes out of Utah, was hatched by Mormon J. Ralph Atkin:

“SkyWest Airlines was founded in 1972 by Ralph Atkin to meet the needs of businessmen traveling between Salt Lake City and St. George, Utah. In 1987 SkyWest began a partnership with Delta as one of their Connection carriers and today, continues its affiliation with Delta at hubs in Salt Lake City and Dallas/Fort Worth with more than 440 daily flights.”

(“Famous Mormons,” at: http://famousmormons.net/bus.html)


The Delta-Skywest connection is further detailed here:

“Salt Lake City International Airport is the only international airport in the state and serves as one of the hubs for Delta Air Lines. . . . The airport has non-stop service to over 100 destinations throughout the United States, Canada, and Mexico, as well as to Paris and Tokyo. . . . SkyWest Airlines is also headquartered in St. George and maintains a hub at Salt Lake City. . . .”

("Utah,” under “Transportation,” at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah)


Now, for further connections on the Mormon Church-Delta connection. As one observer notes:

“As most know, Salt Lake City has been a major hub for Delta airlines. Anyway, back in the day, Delta handled virtually all of the flights for missionaries and the [Mormon] Church in general.

“Anyway, Delta always gave the Church a discount, but started getting greedy. They assumed since they were the major airline in SLC and virtually the only airline that could provide direct routes and the quickest routes to most missionary destinations that the LDS Church was bound to them regardless of the deal.

“So, they pulled the deal about 5-6 years ago, thinking the Church would continue their business with them. Uh, think again. The Church knows that missionaries couldn't care less about lay-overs and they went with United who were more than willing to step in and take Delta's deal.

“Anyway, thought that was interesting in light of Delta's bankrupt status. I have no idea and doubt that the loss of the missionary account played into this in strict financial terms, but it serves as an example of bad business practiced by Delta at the very least.”

(“Delta Airlines and the LDS Church,” posted by “FunkyCougar,” on “CougarBoard,” 8 November 2004, at: http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=929432)


In response to the above, another observer on the same site wrote in to question the assertion about a Mormon Church-Delta exclusive contract:

“I've flown out of SLC regularly for the past 10 years.

“I see missionaries flying American, Northwest, United and Delta all the time. I'm not sure the Church has ever gone exclusively with one airline. . . .

“Just last week, I flew Delta and missionaries were on my flight.”

(“RE: Delta Airlines and the LDS church,” posted by “BigUte,” 8 November 2004, at: http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=929446)


While I haven't said the Mormon Church now has (or once had) an exclusive deal with Delta Airlines, I know from my own observations that the Mormon Church has used Delta to move its "prophets, seers and revelators" around.

For example, When my grandfather Ezra Taft Benson came to Phoenix for eventually-impeached and -convicted Mormon Ev Mecham's gubernatorial inauguration, he flew in and out on Delta.

I remember because this was back in the day (the 1980s) when you still had general access to the gates. I walked down to the gate, I.D.-ed my myself and was allowed onboard the plane for a few minutes before it took off back to SLC. (ETB had already attended the inaugural ceremonies earlier in the day; I had decided not to go because I wanted to maintain some press distance from the event within the context of my job as an independent editorial cartoonist. My grandfather, however, did give me his inaugural program as a souvenir).

Here's a previous post of mine on that episode:

"In another thread, concern was raised about Mormon General Authorities flying 'first clases on [the] widow's mite.' . . .

"I saw that travel operation in action with my grandfather and then-Mormon Church president Ezra Taft Benson who on 5 January 1987 (at the invitation of newly-elected and eventually-disgraced-impeached-and-convicted Arizona Mormon governor Evan Mecham), was flown down from Salt Lake City (as I recall, on Delta Airlines) to attend the inauguration ceremony of Brother Ev. . . ."

("Mormonism's Air Farce One: My Encounter with the President Flying First Class," posted by Steve Benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 6 December 2010, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,49489,49489#msg-49489http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,49489,49489#msg-49489)

So, there on that Delta plane was Grandpa Benson, sitting in first class, with his suitcoat off. I sat down next to him and our conversation soon turned to his health. He had recently had a pacemaker implanted. I asked him how he was feeling. He said he was doing good. He pointed to the bump under his skin near his collarbone where the device was and I asked if I could feel it. He smiled and said sure.

Here's a "Deseret News" story about his pacemaker implant:

(“Pres. Benson Gets Pacemaker,” in “Deseret News,” 7 November 1986, at:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19861107&id=yAUyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JoQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6573,2804016


And here's my earlier RfM account, initially posted in January 2006, filling in more of the details on the pacemaker moment aboard that Delta plane with ETB:

"It was January 1987 and, as President of the Mormon Church, he had been flown down from Salt Lake City to Phoenix in order to attend, by invitation of Arizona governor-elect and fellow arch-conservative/Mormon Evan Mecham, the governor-in-waiting's swearing-in ceremony (Mecham, by the way, whom my grandfather warmly referred to in our later conversations as 'our man,' was eventually impeached, convicted and removed from office by the Arizona legislature for high crimes and misdemeanors).

"Anyway, knowing that my grandfather would be leaving Phoenix immediately after the inauguration ceremonies, I left my newspaper offices and hurried over to the airport, where my grandfather's commercial [meaning Delta] flight was sitting, with him aboard, on the tarmac, preparing to taxi out to the runway and take off.

"I was allowed to board the aircraft to visit briefly with him prior to his departure. He was seated in the first-class section, with his suit jacket off. We had a pleasant chat, during which our conversation turned to his health.

"My grandfather had been having recent problems with an irregular heartbeat and, consequently, had been fitted with a pacemaker. I asked him where it had been implanted and he pointed to an area just below his collarbone. I asked if I could feel it. He smiled and said I could so I gingerly touched the area through his shirt. It was a small, hard lump.

"We chatted some more, then I bid him a fond good-bye and off he went. . . ."

(“The Day Ezra Taft Benson Let Me Feel His Pacemaker,” posted by Steve Benson, “Recovery from Mormonism” discussion board, 23 January 2006)


That's what happened, "alx" dude--and it happened on Delta.

And "Apostle" Russell M. Nelson was in a Delta gate area recently, sitting across from me, and was recognized as a Mormon GA by a member of the LDS faith, who introduced a child to her as "an Apostle of our Church." He was waiting to board a Delta flight outbound from Phx to SLC from a Delta gate, so I don't care how many times you've flown in and out of SLC and missed seeing a Mormon GA going Delta. I've seen 'em doing Delta.

If you haven't witnessed Mormon "prophets" and other GAs flying around on Delta Airlines, maybe you need to hang out with me more. :)
_____


(For the original thread, see "Suffer the Little Children to Come Unto Me--Unless I'm Too Busy Writing in My Day Planner at an Airport: Watching 'Apostle' Russell M. Nelson in Action," by Steve Benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 16 April 2013, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,863415)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 07:45PM by steve benson.

Does make one wonder what airline a certain LDS executive was flying when he 'happened' to be seated next to Mick Jagger.

How funny that Delta thought the church would want to send missionaries on direct flights even though it was more expensive. They will send missionaries on as many layovers as possible to save a few bucks. When I went to Italy we had layovers in Chicago and Frankfurt. They could have sent us to Atlanta, New York, or Dulles and then we could have taken a direct flight to Rome but they probably saved 100 bucks sending us the way they did. Fortunately on my way home I went from Rome directly to Atlanta.

Most corporations treat their basic field sales representatives this way.

I personally saw Holland in the Sky Club a few months ago. He ordered juice from the bar. I timed it perfectly so I was next to him and asked the tender for a double gin and tonic because it had been a "bitch" of a day. Holland didn't even flinch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2013 02:57PM by Washed and Disappointed.

LOL! Love how he didn't flinch but you know he had to have noticed!

While with a friend, we once saw/met LTom in SLC shortly after said friend had turned in his missionary papers... My friend mentioned this to LTom and I said "Be sure to send him to a crappy mission". He did a lousy job hiding his disgust for my implication that some missions are better destinations than others. He was an ass.

Steve I don't know if you remember how when Nelson and Oaks were called to the twelve in 1984 some members were passing it off as the Lord calling to regular men,neither being a GA at the time. However weren't both insiders with the FP? Obviously Oaks had been Pres.at BYU.

. . . don't have or need hearts, I can't figure out how he got in.

Huh. I thought Jet Blue was the new TBM airline.

And I'm still trying to figure out how anyone could make money flying people between SLC and St. George...maybe with a little turboprop?

. . . and saw him sitting in the same area, before being pre-admitted down the passenger walkway into the Delta plane.

Maybe Jet Blue had run out of low-class seats.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2015 09:44AM by steve benson.

I'd bet mishies, et al, get put on the cheapest flights possible. Mormon royalty probably get to pick their own airlines based on their frequent flyer accounts.... something the little guys don't get to do.

Just like a business does. <snicker>

And btw... who remembers the old Western Airline days, before Delta acquired them? "The only way to fly!"

I remember several years ago, when he flew down to Phoenix from Salt Lake Cit, to attend the swearing-in ceremony for turned out to be the short-lived, prematurely-terminated gubernatorial term of Mormon governor-elect of AZ, Evan Mecham (Mecham, it turns out, after having been in office for just over a year, was impeached, convicted and thrown out of office fo, among other things--ironically, enough--illegally taking money out of his state inaugural festivities fund to finance auto sales for his Pontiac dealership were he specialized in used cars. I am not kidding).

Anyway, after the inauguration, my grandfather was driven to Phx Sky Harbor International Airport for his return flight, so I hopped in my own vehicle and made it to the airport to see him off (this was when you could still walk down to the gate without having to be a passenger).

My grandfather was on the Delta plane, sitting in first class with his suitcoat off. I asked an attendant if I could go onboard for a few minutes to visit with him. She gave me the nod, so I sat down next to him and we had a friendly chat. He had had a pacemaker recently installed and,at my request, let me feel its location near his collarbone. (We got along pretty well, despite our growing political differences).

I think they let well-connected customers have those little fmily visit perks on Delta flights. :)

(P.S.--I wrote the above on the fly, so to speak, from memory, then checked it against a link I had included in the original 2013 thread (the post now heading this current thread). It's in line with what I wrote in the original thread, which just goes to show that ex-Mormon apostates can tell both consistent and truthful stories. So there, Grandpa).



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2015 10:52AM by steve benson.

An uncle of mine and his wife - senior missionaries - recently arrived in their assigned area in a South American country.

If you were booking your own reservations - say to Peru - out of SLC (Provo MTC) you would likely have made it easy on yourself - making the trip with the fewest connections - maybe even overnighting before your mega-travel the next day.


To save a buck or 2, the Church booked them on a non-sense itineraty, leaving out of SLC to New York, arriving there at 11:45 pm. They waited another 2 hours for their flight to Miami, andarrived there just in time to make their way to the international terminal, where they boarded their 3rd flight in 18 hours, and it lasted another 6.

IMHO, my uncle likely made an upfront payment to the Church for travel, lets say 1500 per person to go to Peru. No doubt the Church got them both to Peru for 2000, and pocketed the other 1,000.

They spent a total of 24 hours either on a plane or in the airport, just to go to South America.

Would a General Authority have been treated this way?

Hey, remember when Gordon Jump ("Peter" in the old temple endowment movie) used to advertise Western Airlines? "I've got THREEEE FEET! for my TWOOO LEGS! on Western. AIRlines!!"

The closest thing to a GA that I ever saw fly on Delta was Hulk Hogan....on a flight from SLC to Atlanta.....first class, of course.

Any thoughts on Hulk Hogan livening up Conference?

They're certainly a lot more entertaining--especially since everyone knows its a big make-believe act and enjoys the ride without blinders on.

And when I say everyone knows it's a big make-believe act, that "everyone" includes (I would suspect) most seasoned GAs--with some exceptions. I think my grandfather was one of those exceptions.

Knowing him and spending as much time with him as I did, I think he genuinely believed the Mormon Church was true. (I think he possessed that mindset through a combination of ingrained, lifetime brainwashing, a fervent desire to believe and perhaps a bit of self-denial to maintain a life in a culture and tradtion that he enjoyed, valued, was comforatble with and was used to).

He wasn't Church president long enough before he became so physically and mentally incapacitated that he truly didn't know what was going on--which kept him from going the full stint as Mormon Church "prophet" without ever having talked face-to-face with Jesus. (He became Church president in November 1985, was basically out of its day-ot-day administrative action by no later than 1989 and died in 1994)

Discovering that the Mormon Church was, at its historical and doctrinal core, a fraud would have been a complete downer for him--one that I suspect he would not have shared with anyone else except maybe his therapist. And he didn't have a therapist (at least not one that he ever told me about. See?)

:)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2015 11:11AM by steve benson.

I have only ever seen apostles on delta flights and coincidentally they are always first class and traveling on Sunday. If you want to meet an apostle, fly on a Sunday to salt lake from a city that just had a conference of temple dedication. They don't have an issue with forcing others to work on the sabbath so they can sleep in their own bed Sunday night. And to think all those years as a kid we cut family vacations short so we wouldn't have to travel on a Sunday.

I used to fly often back in my consulting days and Delta had some good deals then, so I flew Delta frequently. Lot's of mishies. Met several GA's as well as Mo "notables". Steven Covey, for one. Others might come to mind if I think about it, but I have better things to do today.

unless they spoke to me, first. No eye contact, no apparent recognition.

This was the rule drilled into me by my roommate at UCLA. She told me, sternly, "There are a lot of celebrities who live in this area. Don't stare at them, speak to them, or act as if you recognize them. It's their home too, and they deserve some down-time."

I almost ran over Martin Landau on my little Honda scooter, but that was because he was behaving like a jerk and crossing in the middle of the block, which was strictly against the law. I hit the horn - which sounded like a goat with inflamed adenoids - and screeched to a dramatic halt, just a couple of feet away from him.

He wheeled around and hit me with those beautiful blue eyes, and I almost dropped the bike. I happened to be a huge fan. I started stammering, apologizing, and saying very sincerely, "That was DANGEROUS! You didn't even look! What if I had been driving a car? I could have HIT you!"

He relaxed into a smile, and said, "But you didn't. And next time, I promise, I will look before crossing." He proceeded across the street to his car, an amazingly decrepit-looking black sedan of some sort, and waved goodbye. From then on, I saw that car from time to time in Westwood, and I would hit the horn on my bike. He would smile and wave, and I waved back.

I had my own personal celebrity! That was one of my coolest university memories.

But if we had been walking on the sidewalk or something, I would have started digging in my purse, and not given him a second glance, although I would have been delighted to have seen him. That's just the "celebrity etiquette" we were taught.

Awesome! I like Landau as well.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2018 04:02AM by steve benson.

I can't forget this story. An apostle my ass.

It reminds me of when my sister and father were in expensive box seats at a BYU game, and my sister noticed that Monson and his posse were in the next box over. (Monson was not yet the prophet). My sister wanted to shake hands with Tommy but was rebuffed by his Danite body guards. My idiot father tried to spin the story into a cautionary tale about the dangers an apostle faces in public. Imagine the hardship of not being able to shake hands with your devoted followers, said Dad without a second thought. And without a first thought, for that matter.

Sometime in the last 10 or 12 years, I was flying out of SLC back to Las Vegas, and saw Hoax coming up the ramp from arrival. He was alone, hauling a big case that would have barely fit in the overhead(I hate people who do that)

You could see any number of people watching him, just dying to go shake his hand but the look on his face said "Don't even think about it....I've got more important things to do than to talk to peon members...." or so it looked to me.

with a young girl and her mother.

Suffer the little children to get out of my way, for such is the Kingdom of Nelson.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2017 02:59AM by steve benson.

You should have walked over and introduced yourself! Just imagine the look of horror on his face, as if he was looking into the eyes of the devil himself...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 10:36AM by hangar18.

Well I have seen several Apostles on Delta since then. For example, one time in Sep 2013 I was at the Delta sky club at the same time as l. Tom Perry, Jeffrey R. Holland, and comedian Bill Cosby. Nobody wanted to come up and talk to Holland or Perry. But several dozen lined up to take pictures with Bill Cosby. I suppose the Brethren are beloved and respected, but nothing in comparison to the respect that people had towards Cosby.

My daughter and I saw Nelson at a local Intermountain Medical Clinic. He was wearing the same "mortician-style" suit. I said "hi" to him and introduced him to my daughter.

He was the one GA/Apostle I got a truly icy/creepy vibe from (was a bit taken back by it, to be honest).

I have met plenty of the Q12 while out and about and never got this vibe from any of the others (at least to that level...Oaks was a bit of a stiff, I must admit :) )

Ew. That is concerning. He is next in line??

Yes, next in line. Not a good thing, IMO