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Posted by: FormerLatterClimber ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:01AM

Denial. A mental illness, probably not, but it could be a symptom of one.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:41AM

It's actually a very common human phenom. We don't like changing our beliefs. You have to train your mind to be scientific and not be biased. This shows when really smart people have ridiculous religious beliefs. They aren't nuts, they just don't want to be self-reflective.

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Posted by: MrZ ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:26AM

I would like to know who is responsible for the big bang, and who/what made "their" big bang, and on and on. I'd like to think that God is responsible, it is nice to blame someone for existing. But I am mostly convinced that I will never know, not by the hand of science or god. Not until I am dead, and at that moment all I'll have is a 50/50 shot at knowing a little more or nothing at all.

The idea of death would probably consume us w/o science or religion. The discovery of the unknown whether it be through faith or science (observation,etc) is good mental health because it separates us from our impending doom. Offers some hope. Drugs, sex and rocknroll are probably good distractions too but do not offer any convincing solution to this problem.

Or I could be crazy, its 1230 am. I'm tired.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:02PM

I've learned that some questions are just framed wrongly... or the question doesn't even make sense... Like "Who made the universe?" Think about the first word of that. Why do we assume it's a being or sentient entity? It's automatic for human minds to ascribe "who-ness" to things that may well be mindless phenomena.

"Why" is also a tricky word. It can mean "What For?" or "How Come?" Those are two different concepts.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:23PM

I would like to know what basis you have for believing that the cause of the big bang is a "who."

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 11:22AM

Yes!

Timothy

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 11:32AM

Not really.

When you think about it for just a minute, mental illness is whatever the society says it is. If you hear voices and you live in some societies, you are venerated as a shaman and given a free hut and a special role in village life.

In our society, you are given a diagnosis of mental illness and are given medication. If you firmly believe you hear God speaking to you, you may be a General Authority in Mormonism instead of being in a mental hospital. It's situational, you see? The former get Respirdone, the latter speak at conferences surrounded by adoring followers.

Schizophrenia is not treated as an illness universally even though it can be recognized in all these societies.

Here's a question for you. It's been studied that people who believe their mana (power) was taken from their body by a curse actually die, reinforcing a false belief and making it true. Doesn't that mean that what you believe does, in fact, become true for you?

Off to get coffee....

Anagrammy

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:16PM

In some cases. If you believe a placebo is a drug you might feel relief of pain, but you won't get your chemotherapy.

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Posted by: liminal state ( )
Date: April 13, 2013 02:00PM

+1

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: April 17, 2013 12:13AM

Serena, what about functionality instead?

We all know plenty of deluded Mormons who hold down jobs, feed their families, fulfill responsibilities up the wahzoo, and are just certain they are gods in embryo who will be rewarded for being so obedient by getting their own planet.

And look at Tom Cruise. There's not a person on the planet that wouldn't say he isn't delusional yet look how successful he is.

If a delusion does not interfere with a person's FUNCTIONING, we tend to let it go as part of being free to pursue happiness in America. So I think the criteria should be

Mental Illness defined as a condition in which distortions in reality impair the individual's functioning.

What do you think?

Ana



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 12:14AM by anagrammy.

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Posted by: JamesM ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 11:55AM

There are scholars who know all the proof that the Church is false, but they continue to morph the discussion in such a way that the proof isn't really proof.

It's hard to prove a negative. Like nailing Jell-O to the wall. Once in a while you can get a piece of that Jell-O nailed to the wall if you have 8 or 9 nails holding up one ounce of Jell-O (I've tried it).

But the rest of the Jell-O remains un-nailed, and that's what they'll hang on. And they'll find a reason that they don't need that little piece you pinned down for their lives to still make sense. Also, the Jell-O will eventually be broken into so many gelatinous pieces that continuing to try will result in nothing but frustration for you. The Jell-O wins if you can't approach it very gingerly from the very beginning.

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:14PM

I'm not ill, how dare you say that. Now George, Bob, Gary, Mike, Al, Jerry, Ben, and Sue, let's get out of here before we get insulted again.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:21PM

I'm totally surrounded by TBM's, both family and neighbors. Rumor has it that many of these think I am suffering mental problems! Since I don't act evil and still act in a cheerful and helpful manner, I guess they can't say I left because I want to sin, or am lazy. What else is left? "He's got mental issues."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2013 12:21PM by rationalguy.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:25PM

I think everyone at some point has put their faith into something there is no significant proof they should believe in. Maybe it's your scum bag boyfriend people warned you about but who you were sure was just misunderstood. Maybe you flirted with the idea of extraterrestrials. Maybe you believe in a God there is no proof for but whose existence comforts you. Maybe you did the cabbage soup diet at some point.

What I'm saying is that everyone does go through periods of life where they belief in something or someone crazy. Believing in stuff makes life tolerable. Even in the face of proof, it's hard to give up a belief you love. I wouldn't say it's a form of mental illness but there is a line. Like most people have some degree of narcissism but there is a line where it becomes diagnosable.

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:57PM

Belief is like a dream. While dreaming you can believe the events are real. Your eyes move, your heart races, you sweat, you get cramps, your body moves. Then you wake up. Sometimes you still feel like you just came out of a live event, but then you realize it was a dream and you feel a big let down. For a time you lived a lie then you woke up. It can be hard to admit you have been fooled. So much that you adopt the lie and make it true. So I would call it a mental illness.

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:33PM

I think it's more of self-delusion. You know or suspect it's a delusion but you like the delusion so you keep your eyes closed tight and live within it. The reason people like the delusion is because they hate uncertainty even more than delusions. Not knowing how the universe was created, how their identity was created, and what will happen when they die is just unbearable for some. If believing in unicorns was the only option for them they would rationalize a way to believe in them so they could alieviate their fears. Not being afraid of the unknown is the first step to rational thinking. Those without courage cannot take that step.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:38PM

if that's true then I must be seriously mentally ill. Which is fine I guess

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 04:05PM

I don't think cognitive dissonance is a mental disease any more than xenophobia. But then I'm nuts myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2013 08:24PM by donbagley.

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Posted by: Quoth the Raven Nevermo ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 04:08PM

No. I would call it mental gymnastics.

De Nile is more than a river in Egypt. Denial is a coping mechanism that probably goes back to the first humanoid that could reason.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 13, 2013 03:17PM

as far as being 'clinical', a mental illness would be named in the DSM; believing in a (false) religion ain't gonna cut it.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: April 13, 2013 07:22PM

Unless you want to call all humans in the past mentally ill. People were raised to believe certain things despite the lack of evidence.

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Posted by: notsurewhattothink ( )
Date: April 13, 2013 09:36PM

Don't listen to them Santa, I believe in you!

Seriously though, I was watching a BBC documentary I think called "Changing your mind". In the middle it showed a study done where people were asked what they thought their chances of dying of a certain disease were. They responded with a percent and then were shown the national average. Then they were asked the same thing again and almost without fail, the people responded lower than the national average. Curious, the doctor Shali Tarrot? (Looked like Carrot to me), then tried this in a brain scanner and found a region of the brain actively suppresses the emotions and regions of the brain associated with internalizing "downer" information. That's why we need to actively think scientifically and why a lot of people react as lemmings in a sort of "happy" group setting.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: April 13, 2013 09:42PM

I think sometimes its peer pressure. When you're surrounded by people with strange views, it's hard not to get swept up into it too, even if only a little bit. You may intellectually realize it's false, but maybe you won't have the self-confidence to internalize it.

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