Hi,

I've not watched the general conference, but for those who have, are there any signs of Thomas Monson's assumed Alzheimer's disease? Or, have we jumped to an unwarranted conclusion based on insufficient evidence and gossip, rather than reality?

Thanks,

Steve

I'm not convinced that he has it. He's obviously slowing down with age naturally. The guy never had much intellectual ammo anyway. His claim to fame is giving a good widows-and-orphans tearjerker and that's about it.

that guy's gone. It's obvious.

However, I never see video of the Count so I wouldn't know.

Monson is showing signs of mental fraying. He tends to wander and repeats himself. He requires coaching from his inner circle to get back on topic. He tells stories from his life then repeats them in the same words a few minutes later. He repeats the same stories to the same people in the same setting. Could be Alzheimer's. He is not allowed to deviate from prepared texts when giving public sermons. He does OK when reading a prepared text but when he wings it he drifts. His staff is concerned about this. This is from first-person observation. Also from info shared with me by Mormon sources familiar with how Monson's public appearances are handled.








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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 25, 2012 07:02AM

Re: He tells stories from his life then repeats them in the same words a few minutes later


So his short term memory is kaput.


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Posted by: eyes n ears ( )
Date: August 25, 2012 02:16PM

(n/t)

It could also simply be age-related (as opposed to Alzheimer's.) Some elderly stay mentally quite sharp as they age, some don't.

refs at bottom of above post from people who've asked similar questions before

I think we jumped off of the Bridge of Unwarranted Conclusions...While he was never the sharpest tool in the shed I saw no evidence of Alzheimers....Nothing memorable but nothing to suggest Alzheimers...I think we lept a little quickly on that rumor..

He seems ok on camera. He is obviously aged, but I haven't seen any evidence of repeated stories.

In the YouTube era, I would expect something to surface if this were in fact happening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 07:07PM by archytas.

Tape it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 07:11PM by archytas.

Allegedly, he has repeated stories at a public event (maybe more than one event).

I keep looking for audio or video of this, but I have yet to see it.

I'm not doubting your story, but I need something more since I wasn't there.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 10:12PM by archytas.

I would assume that his minders wouldn't allow that.

The last time I was at an event with anybody from the Dear Leadership (It was boyd f. packer) they specifically told us "no recording devices or cameras". That was 15-18 years ago, so today I'm sure they would say "no phones/cameras/camera phones/recorders/tablets/recording devices/nuthin"

Actually, I thought he looked better on day 2 (I didn't watch day 1) than I've seen him in awhile...

Right up to the part where he told everyone how he had, intentionally, set fire to field near his parents' vacation cabin.

Of course, everybody kind of looked at me funny when I asked them if they realized their profit had just admitted to being an arsonist...

I have lost several relatives to Alzheimer's and really don't notice any signs of it with Monsoon. I think he is starting to go a bit senile from age, but he seems too "with it" to have Alzheimer's - if he has it, it is in the EXTREMELY early stages.

I work with alzheimer's patients every day. Monson appears to show symptoms of very early dementia. At his age, that's really statistically normal.

The question should be, what is the church going to do about leadership when Monson finally becomes fully incapacitated? Keep up the farce like they did for Steve B's g-pa? Or ignore it, and use lots of props to make it appear that the "Prawfit" is functioning.

Dunno. But it's one drama I don't wanna miss!

;o)

After watching the video of Hunter falling over, Elder Wirthlin shaking almost uncontrollably, and seeing countless temple appearances of other apostles, I think they really make them only capable for one weekend of conference. The rest of the time I am betting they just sit at home staying alive.

Just saw this on facebook, above a link to Monson's Saturday Morning Talk:

"The most useless talk in the History of the Church. Nothing but a list of temples dedicated in the last six months. This clown has nothing to show for himself but real estate accomplishments. He should try getting on the watch tower once in a while, and warning the people... but that would require that he actually be a prophet before he could ever do that."

I think they hired count chocula to play his double. Monson himself is sitting in the back room gagged and handcuffed watching the whole thing on a monitor.

He looked ok this GC, but I've seen incidents that tell me this was a good run (the backhand incident in particular).

The backhand incident?

Steve

ETB repeated the same phrases over and over--simple ones like "I love you"--and was finally escorted back to his seat by his handlers. It was an uneasy situation for me to watch and, frankly, embarrassing for my grandfather who should have not been manuevered into that spot in the first place.

In his last, failing years, ETB's talks were written for him (for example, by May Benson, wife of ETB's oldest son Reed; she researched and wrote his "Beware of Pride" sermon).

In his final years, ETB's sermons were also spoken for him at General Conference (by, for instance, Gordon B. Hinckley, who as his First Counselor in the First Presidency delivered the "Pride" sermon as ETB's stand-in).

Hinckley misled Church members about the condition of my grandfather by acknowledging only that he was physically weakened when, in fact, he was seriously mentally debilitated, having suffered two cerebral hemotomas. If Hinckley and Monson were confident that my grandfather could, in fact, run the Mormon Church, they would not have secretly had authority ro administer the affairs of LDS, Inc., secretly transferred to them by ETB's signature machine in 1989 without ETB being present, as reported by the Salt Lake Tribune.

It finally got to the point where my grandfather was confined to his apartment with 24-7 domestic care. He steadily got to the point where he could not effectively communicate at all, yet the myths kept circulating in TBM Land that he was still leading the Mormon Church.

Apostles Dallin H. Oaks and Neal A. Maxwell admitted privately to me that ETB was not making administrative decisions for the Church as its president because he wasn't able to and that, therefore, no administrative decisions were being made at the top level of the Church with ETB being in that condition. Oaks, in fact, it was not true to claim that ETB was running the Church at that time (meaning in the fall of 1993, a few months before ETB died). To the contrary, Oaks said that the members of the Quorum of the Twelve went over on a rotational basis of twos to visit my grandfather and see how he was doing. Maxwell said that when people asked about ETB's condition, he would simply reply that he wasn't in pain.
_____


It sounds to me that Monson may still be relatively functional from behind a pulpit as long as he can follow a pre-planned script. But I wouldn't be surprised if he is beginning to manifest early signs of dementia. A friend of mine who is familiar with markers of Alzheimer's is of the view that Monson may well be manifesting preliminary indications of the disease.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 10:59PM by steve benson.

Steve,

If that's true, how rapidly is Alzheimer's likely to progress before they won't be able to hide it any longer, and won't allow Monson to speak?

Steve

Of course no definitive diagnosis can be made until autopsy, or at least at that time, maybe its different now (MRI?) But my gpa's progressed much more quickly than Reagan's and seemed to affect him differently.

Alzheimers affects different people differently, and at different rates.

Heck, my dad's 83 and is always repeating the same stories, and is certainy slowing down. That's not dementia, he's just old and tired.

Steve, I remember being at some Nauvoo dedication back in 1989 as a teenager and your grandpa "spoke" too. I was excited as a young TBM to hear a "real prophet" speak but when he sounded just as you described. He didn't seem to have any kind of point or direction. It was almost like a very childlike "testimony" where he just kind of repeated himself and kept saying "I love you all." It was a little awkward for me because he didn't really have much to say and it was pretty clear that he wasn't really there.

Packer is the one that seems to have Alzeimer's. Oh is he boring!

At the second session of the rededication of the Boise temple last year, Pres. Monson told the same story twice during the same talk. He didn't simply refer back to the story he told, but rather told the whole thing all over again. It was clear he was fumbling around.

I was there. Obviously, I didn't record it. But it was noted and talked about commonly by everyone who was there. The story was about how Monson told a young man at the youth cultural celebration to kiss the girl he was dancing with. He thought it was delightful that they kissed. (FYI he told this story in every session of the dedication. Twice in the second session.)

Could have just been a memory lapse. He was clearly speaking off the cuff, and seemed to ramble. But definitely had no idea he was repeating himself.

Alzheimer's is a medical Dx which no one can call without medical training & an exam; I find it curious that we're supporting the possibility....

is there any pre-death Accurate diagnosis? I haven't heard about any.

I haven't seen that people are proclaiming that he has it, just sort of speculating that he might, and giving their reasoning.

And yeah, it's a bit sad that some of us, including myself, are salivating at the possibility that President Corporation Sole may be afflicted with something we might say, hackneyed though it might be, "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy."

When in point of fact, I do have a worst enemy and would be secretly delighted if this enemy suffered the slings and arrows of mental deterioration. Which is probably what spurs us: we like it when the church suffers, and having Pres. Corporation Sole completely and utterly out of touch with his ghawd would be a hardship for the church.

I don't want to suffer it, I don't want anyone I like or admire to suffer it, but if someone has to suffer it, I'm cool with it being members of the Bloated-15.