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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 03:42PM

I know there are lot of folks on here who really like the idea of the personality test. Maybe for you this will be an interesting article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/brain-flapping/2013/mar/19/myers-briggs-test-unscientific?INTCMP=SRCH&goback=%2Egmp_58371%2Egde_58371_member_228884818

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 03:58PM

It is interesting, I don't know about it being unscientific, but I do know that I reject labels that are assigned to me, scientific or not. I am not interested in being something for someone only in being true to myself. I think that the biggest issue that I have with the Meyers-Briggs is that once labeled an individual either conforms to the label, or uses the label as an excuse of behavior that they had resolved to change.

That is not to say that I think that independent evaluation is useless, I just think that it is a limited agent.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:02PM

To address the unscientific part, they are specifically talking about Jung. I'm not incredibly well read in this field, but Carl Jung has always been criticized for approaching psychology like a science, but never being able to test his theories in a scientific manner.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:04PM

I see the personality tests as a model and a tool for classification. I find it to be extremely insightful and accurate in many ways. I found it personally very helpful in understanding certain aspects of my personality.

One thing I really like about it is that it sends a message of "you are who you are and that is OK." Unlike Mormonism where you are supposed to change to be somoene else - e.g. if you are an introvert you should be an extrovert to better share the gospel.

However, just like the article states if it is overapplied, or misapplied it is problematic. Just like any tool or model it can be useful if applied correctly and harmful if misused or abused.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:18PM

+1
I think it's a bit oversimplified, but it does provide insight. I love being an introvert, and it helped me realize there's nothing wrong with being one.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:25PM

Just like my personality can change from day to day.

I am a solid "I", introvert. If I have been introverted for a while and am truly recharged, I'll be much more in the mood for extroverted activities. This would likely affect my answers, shifting my results to a more "extroverted position". The same is true in reverse, if I had just spent hours in an environment where I has to be extroverted, I would likely test as being more an introvert.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:20PM

"For example, in the category of extrovert v introvert, you're either one or the other; there is no middle ground"

The test that I took and respect gave me the standard "INTP" designation that does seem to indicate a binary result, but the in depth discussion revolved around the grid chart which rated me on a continuum, just how "I" I was as apposed to "E". The results were all about the middle ground. Yeah, the internet test most people take are all on or all the other, but a good in depth test puts you on a scale.

I was also told not to go by just the test, I was given a description of INTP that I read. It was the first time ever that I had read something that described me in any accurate detail. I was blown away and it changed my life in such a positive way.

Does it have flaws? Yes, but it rocked my world in such a positive way I have say that for me it worked and identified who I was better than any test I have ever taken.

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Posted by: Phantom Shadow ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 04:33PM

My DH's former CPA firm trained its managers and partners in the M-B classifications as a means in making presentations to clients and potential clients. Thus, it wasn't self-administered--the CPAs were to look for these traits and tailor presentations and reports. If they were dealing with a sensor, for example, they wouldn't want to present pages of highly detailed analysis--better to stick to one page and quickly get to the bottom line. This was 25-30 years ago and I don't know if they still do this. (The firm is one of the Final Four.)

I don't like labels being put on me nor do I like personality tests. I agree with the article--many are not proven to be based on science. Take any human trait--most people fall somewhere in the middle of a bell-shaped curve. For example, most people aren't either introverts or extroverts, but fall in the middle.

My experience in the church was that many TBMs label others to their detriment. Being labeled a "liberal" was hard to live down in the 60s and 70s if you wanted to progress up the hierarchical ladder. I've had too much experience with people who try to put others into boxes--we all need room to grow and expand as we go through life.

When I was younger I went through a period where I read a lot Jung and and his followers and was intrigued by them. Recently I tried reading a book on mid-life and beyond that I found out was Jungian once I started reading. While his theories are interesting, we've learned a lot since he wrote, and if he were alive today he'd probably have different theories. Nowadays I am much more interested in learning about the amazing discoveries in the science of the brain and DNA.

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Posted by: Phantom Shadow ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 05:11PM

Testing is a growing business--From the April 6 edition of The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21575817-can-leaders-be-identified-psychometrics-emotional-breakdown

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Posted by: srena nli ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 05:48PM

There are far too many questions I could not answer because the answers were dependant on non specified circumstances. I felt as if it was trying to stuff me into a box that was far too small, and had no air holes!

Its a bad test.

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Posted by: srena nli ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 06:18PM

I worked at Honeywell, a miserable job, with miserable people, but it had health insurance and enough money to support both me and my husband while he was a full time student. No, not administered by anyone, just heres this test, take it at your desk then return it to me. I tried to resist on the basis that it was an invasion of personal privacy, but they had me over a barrel, and they knew it.

Finally worked up the initiative toget the hell out of there (majorly depressed!) and found a much better job!

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Posted by: srena nli ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 06:20PM

Are you trying to challenge me, MJ?

Don't.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 06:29PM

I just asked a fucking question. Get the fuck over your self.

No, I was not challenging you, I was just interested, but not any more.

Have a nice paranoid live.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 06:33PM

It is just a personality test, scored on how you prefer to think/act at the time you are taking the test. It's not set in stone. I score differently at different times in my life.

I took a class and it was professionally administered. Even the teachers scored me differently than I did, added it up, interestingly as they perceived me, not as I actually scored!! Figure that out. And argued with me!

I don't have a clue what your personality has to do with your job qualifications on getting the work done!

If it is used, it needs to be recognized as only a guide. I agree with the criticism as it is used incorrectly in too many instances.

It ought to be recognized as entertainment ... ONLY!!

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Posted by: srena nli ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 06:53PM

There were questions I simply could not possibly answer, no doubt because I am too analytical. I needed way more information, but there was none, nor even "how I am most of the time." Most answers were " that depends", but that was never a choice, and I was not allowed to leave questions blank, nor do what I really wanted to do, which was tell my boss off, which I did on my last day, and THROW THAT RIDICULOUS TOY TEST IN THE TRASH.

Gawd, the incessant attempts to pry into my personal life...


As a "fun" little side note, I had three grandparents die within 4 months of each other, two just 3 weeks apart. After the 3rd funeral, my boss came up to me and asked just how many more grandparents I had. None, they were all gone then, but I'd be happy to bring in copies of the death certificates, although that could take a little time to get; would she like to see the death notices from the newspapers or the funeral bulletins, where I was listed as a family member???

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 11:18PM

srena nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were questions I simply could not possibly
> answer, no doubt because I am too analytical. I
> needed way more information, but there was none,
> nor even "how I am most of the time." Most
> answers were " that depends", but that was never a
> choice, and I was not allowed to leave questions
> blank, nor do what I really wanted to do, which
> was tell my boss off, which I did on my last day,
> and THROW THAT RIDICULOUS TOY TEST IN THE TRASH.
>
> Gawd, the incessant attempts to pry into my
> personal life...
>
>
> As a "fun" little side note, I had three
> grandparents die within 4 months of each other,
> two just 3 weeks apart. After the 3rd funeral, my
> boss came up to me and asked just how many more
> grandparents I had. None, they were all gone
> then, but I'd be happy to bring in copies of the
> death certificates, although that could take a
> little time to get; would she like to see the
> death notices from the newspapers or the funeral
> bulletins, where I was listed as a family
> member???


I know what you mean. Some work places just get too intrusive!
Sorry for your loss of your 3 grandparents. It's hard enough to lose one!

I know what you mean, also about the test - and "that depends" I wanted more info, I found that sometimes, I couldn't find the correct answer. They didn't have it listed! :-)

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Posted by: BadGirl ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 09:57PM

And I have found it very helpful, especially in career planning.

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Posted by: dazed11 ( )
Date: April 06, 2013 10:33PM

I've also struggled to answer a lot of the questions on Myers Briggs tests I have done online. Some of them I don't understand and others I don't have a preference one way or the other. For the first two indicators I am pretty strong I and pretty strong N but the last two I could go T or F as well as P or J. Also one thing I have found is that all the type descriptions sound like me when I read them except for any extrovert types. A lot of things are the same from one type to another.

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Posted by: schmendrick ( )
Date: April 07, 2013 01:00AM

I think Meyers-Briggs is a useful tool for making generalizations. I also think generalizations are a useful tool for interacting with (especially many) people you don't have time to get to know more closely/accurately.

Cognitive psychology is a "soft science" anyway. The only real takeaway I got from the article was that HR departments attempting to codify humans in policy generally oversimplify and overstep, which I don't think is really news to anyone.

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Posted by: Jen Lilienstein ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 05:06PM

You might find this Dario Nardi piece to be interesting. His work at UCLA focuses on how the brain "lights up" differently for different personality types using fMRI imaging. It's definitely worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfhQTbcqmA

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Posted by: Anti-Beyers-Briggs ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 05:38PM

The test is a pile of poo. Everyone that takes it for a job tries to answer the way 'they think' the employer wants them to - so it's useless.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 05:42PM

That does not mean it is useless.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 05:58PM

And copping an attitude may be exactly what they are looking for. Or what they want to avoid.

Meta-analysis. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

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Posted by: WinksWinks ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 06:44PM

Precisely!

I think there must be a sub type of personality for those who refuse to see any speck of usefulness in the full MBTI. Let's see, definitely some J, but also lots of F, and most likely N, but I or E wouldn't really make a difference... LOL!

Like any tool, it has its appropriate applications, but also circumstances where it has no use.

And the full MBTI is really far, far from a color test or even a horoscope. :D

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Posted by: BadGirl ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:04PM

It's horrible that it's being used that way.
It was never intended as such.
It was intended for people to use for themselves to help them find what they'd be happiest doing as a career or in life in general.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 06:03PM

I've only taken it online and when I did it said I was an introvert. Well duh.

I have taken a myriad of other personality tests for many of the online jobs that I've done. They usually require some sort of personality test when you apply. Even if you try to be honest, I think it's only natural to pick the answers you WISH were true about yourself. When I took the Meyers-briggs, I must have been feeling honest that day because it did seem to be correct. But I have also taken "color" tests that were off by miles.

I think that's why you can't really rely on these types of tests 100%. It's hard to be honest about yourself particularly if it involves a job offer.

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Posted by: Quoth the Raven Nevermo ( )
Date: April 11, 2013 06:58PM

It is wrong that one is either all introvert and all extrovert. The test has a number score so one can score close to the neutral number. I know, as I am a borderline extrovert.

Once you understand that the tool is based on how people make decisions, it is easy to use. Once I work with someone for a while I can tell what they are.

The test is useful at work, as Perceivers often need a judger to push them into a decsion, but Ps are great with bringing up all the possiblities of a decision.

My friends are the opposite of me and I like that because they bring something to the table that I lack.

I once had a conversation with a man about his son with whom he was having trouble connecting. The son wanted to be a musician and the father was an engineer. He spoke about some of the conversation that he had with his son. I told him how his son viewed the world and the father said to me, it is like you know him. I didn't but I knew how the father and son saw the world and what they felt was important. I suggested that he realize that his son had different priorities and that they would never have the same viewpoint, but that he had to accept his son as he was, if he wanted his son to be happy because is son had to find his own path. We were both kinda drunk otherwise I might not have said anything.

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Posted by: Anon Brit ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 10:51AM

Read that article a little while ago and felt it just set up a straw man to knock down.

I work in HR and have never heard it claimed that MBTI is a scientific diagnosis of your personality or that people can be fitted into 16 little boxes - quite the opposite.

MBTI and tests like it just take what YOU are saying about your personality and feed you back an analysis of it, which you may or may not find useful. I've used it in interviews, just to test out what appears to come out of the test eg if someone scores high on introversion asking how they're going to feel about all those presentations to clients that come with the role.

Personally I've found the introvert-extrovert score useful in understanding myself, as I'm a strong introvert - but the other ranges not at all, as I hover around the middle.

It's probably a bit like when the doctor asks you if your pain is 'gripping', 'burning' or 'stabbing'. I doubt if there's any deep science behind it (medics feel free to tell me if I'm wrong), but it's a useful tool for making a diagnosis.

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Posted by: Erick ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:27PM

There are couple of things that need to be taken into consideration here. First, the Myers Briggs assessments were among the first in the market, and so they have market share simply for that reason alone. They are by no means the most accurate, ie, reliable and valid, instruments on the market. There are a number of products which are scientifically valid. There is Hogan, Prevue, Predictive Index, Profiles international, etc. Those are some of the bigger names in the field. There are also specialty organizations like The American Research Institute in D.C. that develop custom pre-hire assessments for specific industries.

The prevailing orientation of these instruments is to match candidates with jobs along categories Risk analysis (honesty/integrity assessments), job-fit, and job/culture-fit. There are skills assessments which are straightforward tests on job-related activities. I have used many of these to surprising results. Other common categories are to study candidates along thinking styles, motivational styles, occupational interests, and behavioral styles. The MBT1 by contrast, is more of labeling device not too dissimilar from the four-quadrant theories of personality, in order to give an employer/hiring manager "information" to make a better hire. What is generally missing from the MBT1 is any kind of rigorous analysis of job requirements. In other words, we can get some insight into a candidate, but we really don't know how to qualify the candidate on the basis of that information. In other words, what personality types do we actually need, as opposed to what we "think" we need! The job-fit and job/culture-fit M.O. is to build success models first, and then screen candidates on the basis of those success models.

That brings us to the second point, and that is, why use assessments? Simply because all of the research supports the idea that HR managers and other hiring professionals have less than 20% predictability from traditional hiring methods, of determining whether a candidate is a "good hire". A good hire is determined as someone who makes it past an early hire-failure period, and is ranked as an above average performer by their manager. Pre-hire assessments that meet satisfactory reliability and validity standards outperform intuitive resume, interview, hire, methods.

The last point of interest is that many of the problems in the use of even "good" assessments rests in the fact that the company has not clearly defined roles and expectations for employees, and therefore has inadequate measures of worker productivity. Bottom line is that the end goal is to increase productivity, ie, increase the throughput rate while decreasing the unit cost of throughput. You cannot do this effectively if you don't know how an employees job responsibilities directly contribute to throughput, and then assign quality measures for managing this.

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Posted by: Quoth the Raven Nevermo ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 12:43PM

One of the downfalls is that I have a work persona that is different than my personal persona. I am a big time P in my private life but at work I can be a major J, as I work in a time critical field and deadlines can't be missed.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 02:12PM

I am an N, but that does not mean I can't do extroverted things.

When an extrovert goes to a party, they get energized. When I go to a party, I have a great time, but by the end, I am exhausted and need time to introvert.

Being one does not exclude the other.

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Posted by: FormerLatterClimber ( )
Date: April 12, 2013 03:16PM

Re the Introvert v Extrovert, Me too. I have taken the test a couple times and sometimes I'm I, and sometimes I'm E. And sometimes I can be at a party and feel energized afterward. Other times I feel drained and need to be by myself to recharge.

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