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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 12:37AM

Hi All,

For those who are gay and dating, where do you go to find dates, and what have your experiences been like? Is your goal to find a husband?

Do you meet guys using dating sites?

Through social activities organized by various organizations?

At a church?

I wonder what percentage of gay men who want to find a boyfriend subscribe to a dating site. How many give up? I wonder how that varies with age. In my early 40's, although I still look young, I feel this sense that time is running out! And if not that, then the I suspect that the probabilities are diminishing, which is a demoralizing prospect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 03:42PM by Susan I/S.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 12:48AM

Hm, I tried to give you suggestions several times when you were all about "gay men can not connect" and was rather soundly rejected. Are you willing to entertain the idea that gay men can connect now?

I "connect" with gay men through friends, through volunteer work with orgs that have a lot of gays, joining gay teems or clubs, gay bars, gay circuit parties, going to activists activities like protests...

You are going to have to put yourself out there and work at it.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 03:03AM

Many metropolitan areas have "rules" that allow gays to connect in different situations.

In California, there was the 3 step "rule". When passing a hot guy walk 3 steps and look back at him. If he looks back as well, he is gay and interested. I used this to ID someone as interested when I was playing tourist with my mom and dad. I even managed to set up a date without my parents figuring out what was going on,.

In the SF bay area, gays often take the last car on a BART train and make eye contact via the reflections in the windows. The reflections also worked on MUNI.

Learning local customs helps.

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Posted by: DebbiePA ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 12:58AM

I would suspect it's the same for gay men as it is for straight men or straight women or lesbians. You put yourself out there. You tell your friends you're looking, sign up on, get involved in activities with people who have similar values.

Bar hopping may not be a good way to meet quality people, but volunteering at a food bank or library or museum might be. What activities are you into? The more people you meet that know you're gay, the more of a chance that you'll meet someone or have the people you meet try to fix you up with someone they know.

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Posted by: jakers4 ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 02:37AM

I'm going to sugest you go to a dating site. An actual dating site like, and not grindr or manhunt. Those really aren't for dating per se.

If the internet isn't your thing I suggest joining a gym and taking a cycling class or something. I know a gay stereotype is that gays like to hang out at the gym. Well I hate to reenforce stereotypes, but I do run into a lot of gays at the gym.

And don't worry about your age. Lot's of guys out there of all ages.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 02:45AM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2013 02:55AM by MJ.

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Posted by: jakers4 ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 03:15AM

Yes I realize that majority of the people who go to gyms are straight. But I've been going to the gym regularly for 5 years. And as for the Gold's Gyms and 24 Hours in Utah.... Pick one, you'll run into a lot of gay guys there. That's been my experience anyway.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2013 03:15AM by jakers4.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 03:19AM

But it depends on which one. Sugar house is "the gym". The other 24 hour fitness have far less gays. If gays in Salt Lake want to meet other gays, they go to sugar house.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2013 03:21AM by MJ.

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Posted by: jakers4 ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 03:22AM

Hmmmm ok. Sugar House you say?

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Posted by: Xyandro ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 06:09AM

I've had good luck on Unlike, it's free.

I've also made friends on facebook. Once you've built up a base, you can find more through mutual acquaintances.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 03:22AM

usually in the produce department between the raisins and the nuts

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Posted by: doubleb ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:12AM

You're killing me, sonoma. Nice comic relief...

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Posted by: Outcast ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 09:39AM

Get active in something - bowling league, softball league, country dancing, going to the gym, something - anything is better than nothing.

Try online dating, but be wary.

Is there an event scheduled, like gay rodeo? Attend.

The goal is to put yourself out there around other gay people. You won't catch any fish if you don't go fishing. I've dated guys I've met at the gym, online, and at church. Social places.

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Posted by: nomo moses ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 10:18AM

I was really new to the gay dating after resigning and the divorce. In SE Idaho there are not a lot of venues for gay men. Although I became involved with a lot of activist groups, I never had a date result from those. At one time I really wanted to meet a husband but finally resigned to just having fun with a lot of friends.

I have dated men that I me t in clubs. Had a great couple weekends in SLC and have continued to be friends with some of the hook-ups I had, but not long term romantic relationships. I dated for some time a pastor that sometimes was a guest pastor at church.

Then, I met my fiancé at a cruising site. I tell him we need to make up a better story on how we met. I still have him in my phone under the nickname I used that day to remember who he was (Hot Hippie). We actually have several common friends, but just hadn’t met prior to the chance encounter. One friend had actually told him about me and she wanted to hook us up.

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Posted by: Inverso ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 12:55PM

I've been using a bit of a shotgun approach. It's really about finding and creating networks, isn't it? So my strategy has included the following (not in order):

1) iPhone/web apps that are usually thought of as hookup-oriented (Grindr, Growlr, Scruff, Hornet, Jack'd... I've met guys on all of them) I have made several good friends on these sites -- smart, employed, connected...

2) Dating-oriented apps/sites (, OkCupid)These are literally the same guys as 1) telling much prettier stories about what they want. I prefer the honesty of their hookup profiles in many cases...

3) Going to gay bars with friends who could introduce me to people (going alone has never, ever worked for me)

4) Getting involved in social groups/activities (like my ecstatic dance group and a writers' circle)

5) Going to LGBT-centered events (like Pride)

6) Ex-Mormon meet-ups--this has worked better than I thought ;)

7) Organizing a weekly drinking night for gay guys from work

Do I feel closer to having a full-time BF? In a way, no, but I feel that everybody I've met and all the ways I've interacted with them (which includes experiences ranging from multiple dates w/no physical intimacy to full-on one-time hookups) have moved me along the trajectory toward knowing myself, knowing what I want, discovering unexpected connection in what outsiders might see as promiscuous or impersonal contact with other men... no time or energy has been misused.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2013 01:20PM by Inverso.

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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 11:55PM

Hi Inverso,

Reading between the lines of a few of your posts, are you a PhD teaching at a university? If so, in which field?

Personally, I've only met one fellow recently that I really liked, through okCupid. He's much younger than me, but we nonetheless had physical chemistry. In reality, that translated into cuddling (for a very, very long time; we were very affectionate in a non-sexual way that I felt was tremendously respectful of each other, and stands as an amazing experience that has permanently burned itself into my memory). But we're very different people, both culturally and from the standpoint of shared interests. We like each other and we're friends, but that's not enough to build a relationship out of.

I personally don't believe in (i.e. wouldn't engage in) sex outside of a loving, commmitted relationship. I know that other gay guys are different, and that's fine. There's no one right way to live (so long as no one is harmed).

The duplicitousness that you described saddens me. I need to believe that at least some guys are exactly who they say that they are. It's hard to believe that a Grindr profile is more honest than an okCupid profile. Hedonism is easy, but its very easiness makes it something that, for me, holds no real value.

There's a straight young guy who graduated recently from a very prestigious university and is the son of very smart, high-status parents, who makes YouTube videos. In one, he mentioned that dating sites were useless for him because the women he'd find there don't appeal to him at all. He's deeply interested in the humanities and the philosophy of mind, specifically, and reads voraciously on those topics. The statistical probability of his finding a girl who could relate to him is exceedingly low. I know about him because our interests overlap. After hearing him say what he did, I realized that it wasn't necessarily being gay that was challenging for me, but other factors.

I'm an intellectual. Other people are great at making lots of money, or sports, or at socializing. I'm terrible at all of those things. If those people met me, they'd think that I was the most boring person in the world; I live inside of my head. I'm also an introvert. I don't fit into the gay subculture at all. All of these things conjoin to make me feel like a complete alien and FREAK--not without good reason!

In conclusion, I'm convinced that I'm doomed. I'm going to continue living alone, and inevitably die alone.

But, good luck, all the rest of you!


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Posted by: Inverso ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 04:32AM

Yes, I am a PhD with a tenured position at a university. I'm a linguist by training but teach some studies and other things as well.

I have always been an introvert too, and getting myself into situations where I could start to meet gay men took some professional work and a willingness to be open to the possibility that the gay dating world I had always imagined didn't exist and that the end result I expected (the one modeled after a heterosexual courtship leading to an ostensibly monogamous relationship like a marriage) might not be either realistic or desirable once I allowed myself to explore other options. I can't dispute what sonoma and others are saying to you. Nobody should really tell anyone that they don't have a right to pursue this Hollywood romance version of gay dating and companionship but it is a choice with serious consequences because it goes against what a whole slew of more experienced gay men on this board have found fulfilling -- it is avoidant, really. Time for some exposure therapy?

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 02:12PM

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Posted by: runbikeswim ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 06:56PM

I met the love of my life on Grinder. Really. You never know.

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Posted by: swk2784 ( )
Date: April 02, 2013 11:19PM (Plenty of Fish) great dating site.

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Posted by: xxMoo ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:05AM

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:12AM

It wasn't in the restroom, but I met the buss driver at the station as we were loading the buss and ended up having sex with him in the back set of the buss when we reached the final destination.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:10AM

you need a multi-pronged approach. that means grindr, adam-4-adam, manhunt, dudesnude, bigmusclebears, scruff, and etc!

but seriously, you can't be judgmental about the setting or format where you may find men. i've met the greatest guys in places that many would warn you away from, including steamworks!

it seems that the guys that have the most difficult time are those who are trying to meet other men, and have a courtship in a heterosexual styled way. lot's of dates, waiting to have sex, meeting in respectable situations...
never seems to happen that way with me and the guys i know. first of all, you gotta have sex as soon as possible. my current boyfriend spotted me pulling my truck into the driveway 3 years ago. we were naked within 2 minutes. most of my boyfriends, and many of my best friendships began in the sack.
you can learn a lot about someone by having sex with them! besides, even mediocre sex is better than a mediocre date! lol so loosen up and get laid! you're a gay man for christsakes!

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:47AM


in the long run, it's much much cheaper!

(kidding, jesus Christ have a sense of humor!)

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:49AM

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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:59AM

Hi Sonoma,

I think that it's different for different guys. I'm exactly the type that you described: I believe in a long courtship, meeting in respectable places, etc.

Some guys don't want a relationship, only sex. Others want a relationship and see sex as the best way to start one. Others are like me. Others don't want a relationship, and don't want sex; they're either loners, asexual, or have given up.

From personal experience, I know that chemistry is immediate and unconscious. Our minds are constantly scanning--in the background--for any matches to our "search type." If a guy falls within the parameters that are written into us by our biology, various triggers will start going off. This is the basis for attraction and arousal.

For some guys with a low threshold of discrimination, a lot of guys will satisfy their search type. Others are highly selective. None of this is a choice; it's just how we're wired.

If sex is the most important criterion for a particular individual, but it's not for someone else, there's a fundamental incompatibility. For me, a relationship isn't about sex, but companionship, mutual benefit, and fun. I'm personally extremely conservative when it comes to sex because IT COULD KILL YOU: if not because of HIV, then hepatitis. It's a safe bet that approximately one in five gay men in Salt Lake City are HIV-positive, and that's true for any large city in the United States. I value my life way too much to want to deal with those kinds of odds.

What probability would I feel safe with? 0%. And the only way to even begin to approach that is through a long courtship, appraisals by friends and family of each guy, etc.--a process that could take a year or two. But if one really wants a relationship to last a (long) lifetime, then what's a year or two but just one segment along that journey?

Some guys have sex within two minutes of meting each other and go on to have a life-long relationship. But I'm not sure that that happens very often.

There's no right or wrong way to meet another guy, so long as no harm comes to anyone. There's no right or wrong way to live, so long as no harm comes to anyone. But it would sure be nice if society made it easier for us to meet, if the probabilities weren't arrayed so drastically against us. (That's one of the reasons that the fight for marriage equality is so important.)

Do you think that you and your boyfriend will stay together for the duration of your lives?



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Posted by: Quoth the Raven Nevermo ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:11AM

Gay Philosopher Wrote:
> Hi Sonoma,
> I think that it's different for different guys.
> I'm exactly the type that you described: I believe
> in a long courtship, meeting in respectable
> places, etc.

I was writing my response when GP was writing his, so what I write is redundant. Sorry!

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:22AM

there you go with that lame old hysterical fear of hiv again. condoms provide protection, that's why a big old slut like me is still negative.

who said that sex was the most important thing? not me.

my problem (if you want to call it that) is that there are too many awesome men in my life who want to have an exclusive relationship with me. i could have a date every night for a week with a different, wonderful man. but i have one who is extra special to me right now. why do i have so many great options when you are asking on a public board how to find dates? i'd love to hear what you think?

what i think is this. you are too uptight about sex. healthy and well adjusted gay men REALLY like to have sex! that's why we're "gay". real, adult gay men don't fetishize that one date, MONTHS ago, when they just cuddled. they cuddle, then fuck, then maybe even cuddle some more. but they ARE going to fuck.

you're absolutely wrong that you can't build a lifetime love when you fuck on the first date, or even in the first two minutes. i know plenty of gay couples where that's the case. I know NOT ONE COUPLE who had a celibate, two year courtship that you pine for. what are you, a mia maid? that's why you're alone steve.

you NEVER listen to the voices of reason when you post your "HOW DO I FIND A MAN" pleas. that's why in six months, you'll be asking the same question, and still be alone, and still ignore the advice from guys who actually date... a lot.

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 02:02AM

Amen, sistah.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 02:42AM

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Posted by: oxymormon ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 03:06AM

I agree, sonoma!

sex is like a handshake to gay men and there's nothing wrong with that!
I think some gays do themselves a disservice by clinging to a heterosexual model of what "should be".

GP: get yourself laid, already! You're limiting yourself big time!

I'm currently dating a guy I met on Growlr. That's right: dating! As in, "let's meet for a drink" and "thinking of you" texts...which all came AFTER our initial "hookup".

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Posted by: dazed11 ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 04:33AM

Did I understand correctly that you want to be in a relationship for 1 or 2 years and have your partner vetted by friends and family before having sex? I don't think that is going to work out to well for you. I am pretty conservative myself and want to get to know someone before having sex but that is far to long for me. I could handle maybe 2 or 3 months but at a certain point I would think your fears of HIV are irrational and the relationship is going nowhere so I might as well end it. I don't think most non-religious straight women would be okay with a guy that doesn't want to have sex with them for 2 years. She would think he must not like her after a couple dates if he isn't making a move.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:29AM

The more open someone is in regards to meeting men the more chances that someone has of meeting people.

I know more than one couple that have been in relationships for 50+ years that meet having anonymous sex in bath houses (pre-aids days, and no all gays of that era were killed off by AIDS).

I also know people that have meet through friends and had long courtships before they ever slept together.

I have meet people I dated at sex partners where the encounter started off as anonymous sex (and anonymous sex does not mean unsafe sex). I have also meet men trough friends and dated for a long time before we had sex. There are advantages and DISADVANTAGES to both.

The more restrictions one puts on the establishment of a relationship, only meet through friends, have to have a long courtship, have to love dogs, etc., the harder one makes it to get into a relationship. One can put so many requirements on the process that they will never meet anyone and often they blame the community rather than the unrealistic list of requirements.

This would hold true straight or gay.

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 12:53AM

Don't waste too much time on the List that Craig built.

Far too many flakes.

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Posted by: Quoth the Raven Nevermo ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:08AM


I think you have to accept that people have different ways of relating to sex. What works for you will not work for everyone.

It sounds like GP's attraction to another is intellectual and from that attraction comes physical attraction. He is no more able to change that than you are to change your pathway of attraction. What if someone told you that you had to develop an emotional attraction before you could have sex with someone? You would reject the idea because it is not how you are.

People have different ways of dealing with their bodies. I have a friend whose father used to hit her and it was the ultimate offense to her. She developed a way to disassociate herself from her body when that happened. To another child, the same punishment would not have had the same effect.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 02:42AM

we've been through this with steve time and time again. he comes on whining about how no one will date him, he asks for advice, and then totally ignores it all and reiterates his phobias about sex, and then pines about how he wants a two year celibate courtship.

i'm not a moron. i know that people have different approaches. i don't have just one "pathway of attraction". sometimes i do have an emotional attraction before i have sex with a man, sometimes it's mostly physical. i think that i know a lot about gay male sexuality. how many times have you had sex with another man as a man?

it certainly looks like steve has a pathological problem with intimacy. professional therapy is what he needs if he's ever going to have a chance of a relationship. if he was a 16 year old boy who wanted to date a guy for a couple of years before sex, i'd say go for it. but for a 40-something to have such a naive view of adult relationships is just not right. healthy, well adjusted gay men don't want to date for two years before consummating. besides...

i came out of the closet 25 years ago. i've been in a few long term relationships. i have an excellent sex life. i have no problem getting dates. i think that i know a bit more about this subject than you do, frankly.

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 03:02AM

And he is always talking about that one time with that one guy and one that special night that they did nothing......

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 10:42AM

GP puts such a long list of requirements on dating that nobody will ever be able to make it through the list. He then blames the gay community for not conforming to his list of requirements. since, in his mind, the gay community is at fault, he will never change his list. In his mind, he is right, everyone else is wrong.

The list or requirements serves as a way for GP to reject anyone that would get close to him and blame the outside world at the same time. It is GPs way of insuring that he will not get dates.

Blaming the world for his problems has also been a long time habit of GP. Who here remembers his constant droning about getting a few people together to form a Utopia because the world sucked so much?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 10:50AM by MJ.

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:58AM

I met the guy I thought would be my last one & only on Our first date was was very promising:
* we both arrived at the restaurant at the same time
* we are both in our early 60s
* we're both about 6 foot
* we both have short grey hair
* we both drive silver Japanese sedans
* we were both dressed in jeans, plaid shirts and white running shoes

So CAN do a good job. Maybe you should try them.

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Posted by: boiseguy ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 03:29AM

growing up mormon makes you fear sex.. it's liberating to be sexual.. obviously there is responsibility to yourself when having sex and being safe about it.. If you fear sex.. then dating is probably fearful for you as well. I think society puts similar constraints on somehow if you enjoy sex or happen to meet someone and have sex on a first date that you're a slut..
people that call other people sluts or whores are people who aren't getting laid but wish they fuck them..

get out there and mingle!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 03:31AM by boiseguy.

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: April 03, 2013 01:42PM

Anyone in AZ? Always looking for great guys to hang with.

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