Hi. This is my first post to this forum. I have enjoyed reading some of the posts. It sickens me that LDS put such negative fallacies on exmormons. You guys are educated, honest, and looking to help people. Your awesome! Your advice would be much appreciated! I would not be surprised if some of you have been in my situation. I am currently a student at BYU-I. I came to the university as a TBM(served a mission, served in ward leadership, married in the temple, etc..) I honestly believed it.

Long story short, my perspective started changing, and I noticed certain inconsistencies that confused me("prophets" contradicting each other, the way the church represents things verse the truth, just to name a few).

I decided to fight off my desire for it to be true, or in other words, my bias(which bias is a prereq to gain faith in Mormonism(Alma 32 along with many other references), but i digress, as this forum will be a place that is familiar with such issues). So I decided to enter into an open minded study of Mormonism.

It was amazing how fast my testimony disappeared. Everything I was taught about LDS history, and other things, were half truths(nice way of putting it, as I felt lied too). Mormon apologists don't deny many of these issues. They just dont talk about them unless specifically questioned about it. They have their responses, but they are so clearly bias. I was talking to one individual about the Book of Abraham issue. He listed out all the possibilities of that situation, and I quote his response, "Personally, I chose the one that leaves Joseph Smith with the most credibility." This type of perspective is something I can never have, nor do I think is healthy. It certainly isn't how truth is found.

The odds of Gods one true church acting in such a manner are impossibly low. The odds of a loving Heavenly Father saying to me, his child, that I don't get to be with my wife and future children for all eternity because I acted on facts, rather then half truths, are impossibly low. So, here I am, not believing.

I would be open and share my thoughts with my wife, and stop attending church, but my situation is tricky. My wife and I have a year left at BYU-I. Transferring isn't an option because we both are so deep into are majors. Church attendance is required, and from what I understand, this is more strictly enforced then at BYU main campus. Honor Code obedience is required(Mormons say you have agency, but the doctrinal reality of mormonism, based on policy and what they say is that, technically you have agency, but we will make it as hard as possible for you to make the "wrong" choice). Also, I am not sure about the following, but if I openly admit(telling my bishop) to not being a believing mormon anymore, tuition may go up?(Non-LDS pay unsubzided cost. LDS Inc. much...). Like I said though, my tuition going up might not be true.

My initial plan was to bite my lip, suck it up for a year, pretend to be a happy mormon, and wait to express myself until I graduate next year. But I am going crazy. I am losing sleep. I feel like I have no integrity. I don't think I can last one more year. I know I need to communicate with my wife, but that makes both my life and her life more complicated.

I could probably talk to my bishop, tell him my situation, and ask the minimum he requires to keep my endorsement. However, this puts my wife in a tough situation. Having her attend church at a BYUI married ward by herself, where she will constantly be questioned about me, is something I don't want to do to her. She is amazing, and deserves to get what she wants from a husband. And all things equal, or as they are now, she wants a solid priesthood holder in the home. It kills me that I cant give that to her.

Again, thanks for reading, and you advice would be much appreciated!

If possible,

1. Transfer to another school

2. Or, suck it up. Don't say word about your disbelief until your diploma is in hand.

3. Inform your wife very carefully. She could go to the bishop and the whole thing blow up on you.

4. By all means, if you haven't already, don't have children yet! Your wife may try to trap you and appeal to your emotions as a father.

5. Don't post on RFM from school computers.

My two cents:

1. Based on what I've heard, don't go to the bishop. He will NOT side with you or have sympathy for you. He'll have sympathy for you if you have a broken arm or is hospitalized. But when it comes to disbelief, he is required to take ecclesiastical actions against you if I remember correctly.

2. Losing sleep and feeling betrayed are very common in the initial stage of leaving behind what you've believed for a long time. At least, that's how it was for me.

3. If you are living on campus and your internet connection is through the school's server, don't visit this board on your home computer, either.

Yet, if your home internet connection is provided through an outside service provider independent of the school, then no worries - unless your wife has installed the church monitoring software.

4. Don't talk to your wife until your emotionally ready for that - at least wait until you no longer lose sleep and are confident that you can discuss this calmly with her.

If you admit to your bishop that you no longer believe the LDS Church is true, you will not be considered a non-LDS student, you will be considered an ex-LDS student. You will be considered apostate and expelled from school.

So, think twice about approaching the bishop. He could consider your asking those questions to be sufficient reason to recind your endorsement, which will lead to being thrown out. Questioning him can be done, but think very carefully about admitting how far you've gone in reasearching and realizing the truth.

Is your wife a student at BYU-I too?

Yeah, by all means DO NOT confess your unbelief to the bishop. Your tuition won't go up and he won't sympathize with you, you'll most likely just be kicked out. 3 years of college down the drain and you will just be SOL.

Talking to church leadership is pointless. They are of no consequence to anything whatsoever. Go to church, fake it, get your degree, get the hell out. They deserve nothing.

Your wife is a different story. Mutual respect. Honesty. Open dialogue. These are the foundation of a healthy, long term relationship.
Be careful, but be honest with her. You love her and she deserves to hear of your disaffection. The outcome may be harsh, or it may be surprising. Either way, it will be better than hiding the truth from her.

Nobody said it would be easy, we only said it would be worth it.

Ha! So evil of you to use the phrase that Mormons seem to believe that Jesus said!

Anyway, no matter how hard this is, it's easier in the long run to get this over with earlier in your life. It's difficult to talk about your marriage falling apart over this, sure. But it's far easier to endure your marriage falling apart over Mormonism before you have like 30 or 40 years invested in it.

And always remember that you should never, ever take anything to your bishop. Ever. And we mean anything, especially anything of a personal nature. Your bishop is unqualified to listen to you open up about any problem of any nature, you will be discussed in PEC and ward council, and soon the whole ward will know. So just don't.

My situation was different than yours. I was not in a church school. However I waited too long to approach my wife, only to find out that she didn't believe either.

That's a tough spot to be in.

If you are set on finishing your degree there, I'd say suck it up. But you don't have to pretend to be a happy mormon, just an attending one.

I stuck with it for many years to make my wife happy (I still attend Sac mtg., but I take my iPad and keep myself occupied). It can be done, although at first it is pretty rough. To avoid the integrity issues, a start is to not bear your testimony. I felt like a hypocrite for years saying "I know" when in fact I did not.

I would look for a chance to share with your wife ASAP - that for me was the biggest burden to carry, but I had been married for 25 years when I finally told her - the longer you wait, the harder it is.

As Nancy Rigdon said, be careful because your wife might go to the bishop, not necessarily to "tattle" on you, but because you are crushing her world and she needs to talk to somebody to help her recover from this devastating spiritual blow. If you are confident your wife would keep this between just the two of you, definitely tell her.

When you finally do tell her, make sure she knows you love her and you're not planning on changing your personal values.

Heck, 52 weeks minus two general conferences and two stake conferences; squeeze in at least six "sick" days, maybe a few traveling days to see baby blessings, etc. (I found it is less painful to attend other people's wards than my own because I was usually able to avoid sunday school and priesthood, which to me are worse than sacrament) and you could have this knocked down to 40 Sundays of church until graduation. That's 120 hours. That's three "work weeks" - you *can* do it.

Good luck!

Do not go to your bishop! BYU-I is very strict and will kick you out, no refund.
I had my dorm room paid for my first semester there, already sent them $1k towards my tution at 17yrs old. I was a TBM at the time, highly recommended from my Bishop to attend. Then I found out I was pregnant. Not only did the school kick me out and withdraw their acceptance, they also kept all the money I sent them, refusing to return it because they said it was "non-refundable." Yep, they walked away with about 5K of my mom's and my money.
Sit quietly, finish the year out, and do not say anything until your diploma is in your hand. I've heard of students who were refused their actual diploma after graduation because they were found to be apostates.

I think your initial plan to suck it up for a year is the best one.

However, I think it would be a good idea to approach your wife. IMO, make it a soft approach and say that you are "struggling with your testimony".

I agree that it is best to avoid talking to your bishop if possible. He is just a regular man who has no special reason that he can help you - however in Mormonism he has a ridiculous amount of authority including the ability to derail your education. If you do end up talking to him, again, use "struggling with your testimony." Most bishops won't bring the hammer down just for that, but you likely will be forced to jump through a bunch of hoops.

Suck it up dude. Don't say anything to anyone and just focus on school. Get your degree, then light a match to your commitmnet to Mormonism.

1. Don't talk to the bishop. He will not be your friend, as others have said, and the risk is just too great.

2. Don't let anyone know who has the power to out you before you finish your education.

3. Make the best of it by getting the best education while you can.

4. Suck it up for the year it will take to finish. You've invested too much in your education to throw it all away, which you risk doing if you out yourself. If they kick you out for an honor code violation they can apparently refuse to transfer your credits, at leas according to what others on this forum have said.

5. As to your wife, don't unload on her all at once. Test the waters first by dropping hints about little stuff that bothers you and see how she reacts. Polygamy is despised by most Mormon women, so look for an opportunity to tell her how weird you think it is. She will be flattered if you let her know that one wife--her--is all you would ever want.

Hang in there until you have your degree, then see if you can wind up somewhere outside of Utah or Idaho, where your wife and family will be exposed to a broader range of people and ideas than they will find in the Morridor.

Good luck. You're in a tough spot, but focus on your education and put this other stuff on the back burner for resolution after you get your degree.

It's a crap shoot if you go to the bishop. He may be understanding or not. They are not trained, and his loyalty will be to the church. It's very hard, but many have walked in your shoes. I'd say the best you can do is pretend for one more year. People have been kicked out of BYUI for less, and with less time left in school.

My husband pretended for two years before telling me the truth. Your wife may follow you as I followed my husband, or she may not. Chances are, she senses something is wrong, as I did, but I thought his problem was with me. I had no clue it was the church. I worry that if you tell your wife now, and she does not react well, she may go to the bishop and you will be toast.

You can spend this year being a great husband. Do you have kids yet? Take this year to study and learn all you can. Ask to be released from your calling because you need the time for school and family. And, feel grateful that you are finding this out at such a young age!

Good luck, and check back in to let us know how things are going.

I would advise not speaking to a bishop about this while you are a student--never, actually, but that is another point entirely.

The "leadership" of church college towns is hand picked for obedient enforcement. Whether you attend a student ward or a family ward, you can be sure that the leaders have it drilled into them that they are to maintain complicity at all costs. I know that is true in Provo, and I understand that things are stricter in at the Idaho campus.

Think of yourself as being in lock down in a minimum security prison. Focus on your studies and your marriage. It is only for a year then you are out on parole.

You are getting good advice above. It is not wise to out yourself before you have your diploma in hand because you run the very real risk of being kicked out and losing that semester's credits and tuition money. You don't want to do that. Go through the motions and do the minimum to maintain your endorsement. Don't feel badly about doing that.

I agree with Nancy Rigdon that you should not have children until you get the situation sorted out with your wife. Go very slowly with her in terms of sharing your new POV regarding the church. You don't want her to go running to the bishop.

Thanks for the quick responses! Not exactly the news I wanted to hear, but thanks for the reality check that I needed. I think what I am going to do then is write down all of my issues and things I have found, and then try my best to forget about it until I have officially graduated and from the sounds of it, avoid the bishop at all cost on the issue!

If you have write it all down, then I would recommend typing it up, naming the file something like "Bio 421," and putting a password on the file - Just in case your wife might somehow see the printed paper or open the electronic file and run to the bishop, telling him how heartbroken she is about your loss of testimony.

Just to give you a little hope in regards to the situation with your wife. I started out slow over a period of six months with my husband, pointing out inaccuracies and ridiculous doctrine. I constantly complained about how the long hours were pointless, gossip sessions that took me away from him and our kids. Then finally I showed him the stuff about the BOM being plagiarized and told him I thought the church was a load of crap and I didn't want to go anymore. He just said if your not going I'm not either. Easy peasy.

Now I know this isn't typical. Seriously we have never been happier. Just go slowly and be patient. Try not to drop it all on her at once. My husband would have been completely turned off if I had. Which is hard for me cuz I'm so impulsive.

P.S. listen to the advice here and DON'T talk to your bishop about anything. Get your degree and get out. You don't owe them shit.

Please do not go to your Bishop--that will lead to huge problems.

I would recommend sucking it up and finishing it out. Transfering at this point is very tough.

At church, ignore, think about other things, be thankful you found the truth and in a short time you will be away from BYU

I just want to second Sophia's advice about not telling anyone who can get you into trouble with the school.

One thing that has not been mentioned here, is whether or not you actually WANT a degree from a Mormon school. Many exmormons consider that to be a liability because every time a prospective employer looks at their resume, they assume they're Mormon. They worry it might hurt their employment prospects (even though that's illegal), but commonly, the discrimination can go the other way, when a person is assumed to be part of the good ole boys club. That can be awkward when the employer assumes they have an ally in believing weird stuff.

It may be too late to change. But it's something to consider, only if you are able to talk about it with your wife and she gets on board.

And about your wife. Don't tell her you don't believe. Never come out and say it like that. What you want to do is plant little seeds of thought:

If you know what bugs her about the church, talk about it. Not doctrinal things. Don't attack the church directly, and don't criticize the leaders, because that sets off a strong defense response. My husband talked about how silly the Noah story was. This bothered me, but it IS a Bible story, so it wasn't directly critical of the LDS church, and I was prepared to accept that there were some inaccuracies in the Bible. He also talked about evolution a lot. Also bothered me, but I learned some things that made me think.

He made my excessive woman/mother guilt into a joke (thus diffusing it). He questioned the value of extra meetings (I was in the RS Presidency). He questioned making babies and toddlers sit through sacrament meeting quietly (this was always a struggle for us). He questioned the value of visit teaching, when people probably would prefer to have the day to themselves.

You could pick something that bothers YOUR wife, and start talking. Depending on how she responds, you could deepen the discussion, or back off. But don't try to convince her of anything. And don't show your hand too soon. When I told my husband that I didn't know if I had a testimony, he said "I've had some doubts, too." And that scared the hell out of me. Had he said "I've been faking it for two years", I wouldn't have been ready.

When you see how your wife responds to small comments and questions, you can judge if you should share more or just keep quiet and finish your degrees. Summer is coming up, so if you aren't in school for the summer, that might be a good time to work through some of this. Don't do anything before finals this term.

And use birth control. Work this out before you make a family.

I stared at a drawing I was working on to have the details imprinted in my memory so I could dwell on the future painting. It worked. My physical body was at church, my mind was elsewhere.

My advice is similar to others. Just suck it up and graduate. Then you and your wife can venture out sans mormonism. Use your graduation as a goal. Smile when you receive your diploma. Heck! You can even plan your escape in advance. :-)

Multiple dittos on not going to the bishop. He isn't your friend, buddy, nor anyone you would want to confide in.

As for expressing your sediments with your wife, I would tread very very slowly so no alarms go off. Start with a minor issue, and see how she responds.

Best of wishes for your successful graduation and escape from mormonism.

This site can be a great outlet if you can post here safely. It might help you maintain your sanity while your waiting.

As someone who was also in school when I decided to take a closer, non-biased look at church issues, I can sympathize with how harrowing it is for your Mormon worldview crumble away while stressing about tuition. The hurt, loss, and betrayal kept me up for months, too. My school program was stressful enough as it was, and having church problems on top of that just compounded the issue. There were times when attending church gave me panic attacks or made me feel physically ill, and it took a toll on my studies.

Unfortunately, at the time I was receiving some much-needed financial assistance from TBM family members, and they conveniently didn't tell me their help hinged on my church activity until I'd already reached this point. Long story short, I lost financial backing from my family once they found out about my disaffection. For my own physical and mental health, I knew I couldn't honestly promise to go to the full service every single week like they wanted me to. The threat of having my tuition revoked just made the stress associated with going to church 10 times worse for me.

I had to withdraw from school, and I'm still trying to pick up the pieces of my life two years later. Thankfully, I'd already earned my BA, so the consequences weren't as devastating as they could have been, and I've been getting more education that's 100% on my own dime this time around. I can honestly say I don't regret what happened, even if I do regret how it came about.

I know it may feel impossible to keep going for one more year, and I can't imagine how difficult it must be to figure out how to approach your wife about this.

The advice people have given here is sound, though. Your bishop probably won't be sympathetic. He will be more interested in getting you back in line, whether that involves trying to talk you back into believing, or disciplining you somehow. Since you can't transfer, and you've only got a year left until graduation, it's in your better interest to go to church. Like Santa Claus said, you don't have to pretend to be a happy Mormon, just an attending one.

Dropping hints here and there to your wife also sounds like a good idea. From what I've heard from people on this board, it usually is a lot better to take things slow rather than showing her everything you've learned all at once. You know your wife better than anyone here, obviously, so if there are things you know that bother her, it might be better to start there. Sophia's polygamy suggestion sounds like a good one.

Something else that may or may not get her thinking: if you wanted to find out how much the church gives to humanitarian causes, you'd discover that they don't publish their financial information anywhere in the US. However, I believe they're required by law in the UK to publish this info, and the official figures don't make the church look very good. Combine that with the fact the church used its own money to develop a big mall in SLC (maybe not tithing money, but still their money), and it starts to look less like a church headed by Jesus Christ.

The financial info thing was something I just assumed was publicly available as a TBM. Once I tried to figure out where the money was actually going, and discovered I couldn't, that raised a lot of red flags for me. It's also something that's easily verifiable without touching "anti" material.

Either way, good luck with everything. Feel free to post here if you need to vent or want to ask for advice. A lot of the people here have done what you're going through right now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2013 12:03PM by faboo.

I'm sure the following is a no-brainer, but...

I see you've posting on YouTube - be really careful where you're tossing likeaboss8821 around, especially if you're worried about getting outed.

then email admin and ask them to remove this thread or edit your name or something. In the past, my husband and I have accidentally put in info that we shouldn't have, and I have been able to have admin remove it. Privacy is important to them.

Having "Brigham Young University" on your resume and permanent transcripts may cease to be a selling point for the future of your career in light of your new knowledge (and you KNOW there will be no going back, thank goodness). And in light of what people are finding out easily enough about it these days. A transfer to a sound university may be worth the investment. Think of your future...

ONe year is a very short time in the big picture.

If you talk to anyone about this it could easily cost you the three years you've already put in, plus the years of a do over.

Don't, I beg you, Don't go talk to your bishop. He's not concerned with helping you. His job is to protect the church's reputation at all costs. Anyone at church in a leadership position will make your life miserable.

Also don't tell anyone that might run to the bishop and tell your story for you. That's an even worse nightmare.

I know it's difficult, but I would suggest that the the easiest and shortest path for you is to keep quiet, don't make waves, and wait until you graduate.

Post here whenever you feel you need to talk about it. We'll talk to you about any and all thoughts, and concerns you may have along the way. Do what is the best for you over the long run.

Don't ruin your degree over a few more months, a year goes by fast.

Say nothing. Not to anyone,including your wife.She may run to the bishop or confide in a "friend".

You know there is no special power in Mormonism.
Forget the bishop, suck it up and get your degree,then get out.

My advice is to play along and get the degree. All those stupid religions class credits don't transfer. Let everyone know you are very busy with projects, research, or a job and that's why you need to do the minimum at church.

Be gone a lot of weekends. Maybe you need to go see a sick family member 2 weekends a month down SLC or whatever (OK, so it's really fun travel time for you and your wife). Say whatever you need to say to protect yourself so you can survive the nonsense! Remember, creative lying is the ONE skill the church teaches by example!

As long as you don't criticize or make apostate noises, no one will really care.

Meanwhile, use the time to keep reading everything. You'll be amazed how deep the rabbit hole goes. Study with your wife if possible. I suggest In Sacred Loneliness by Compton (still a member in good standing) and get her views on JS using religion to get women. Also begin to let your wife see the unfairness of a male priesthood that decides what women need to do. Does God really need handshakes and a male middleman? Get her thinking.

Take it as slow as she needs so she doesn't feel disoriented and has time to digest what really was going on with JS and BY especially.

Also read By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson. That should add another piece of the picture of JS's manipulative mentality.

Remember, as good intentioned as most Mormons are, you are being lied to and frankly anyone intellectually curious does not stay. Congratulations on wising up so early in life.

Protect yourself, your career options, and family any way you need to do. It's a great journey to study your way out. Enjoy the quest and freedom to think for yourself.

Wait until you're out of there. No need to complicate your life. I say lie, smile, and keep your own counsel.

It's not dishonest to withhold information from people who would use it against you (think if the 5th amendment, even legally/constitutionally, you are not obligated to incriminate yourself).
That's to protect you from being charged with non-crimes, made-up, trumped-up, contrived...giving them "something on you".

DON'T TELL YOUR BISHOP!

He could pull your endorsement, get you expelled, and you lose all your credits that you have duly EARNED and they are taking away from you on a trumped-up violation of their arbitrary "honor code". You don't owe them the information that you no longer believe in the church, and by extension their false honor code (the irony of their honor code is another story), if for no other reason than they will flagellate you with your own whip.

You must use tact. I wouldn't say anything to the church until you are clear of them. They are a powerful corporate racket and I think most of us underestimated their shrewdness when we left, expecting them to act fairly. Once you're their enemy, they're hostile and they play dirty.

And, if you haven't told your wife yet, be very cautious there too. The psychological shock of your spouse telling you they don't believe the church is true, when you're a fully-unsuspecting TBM, is a whole 'nother issue.