He said it in the dedicatory prayer on on March 17, 2013.

"Our hearts are filled with gratitude for Thy blessing of the sons and daughters of Lehi. Thou hast heard their cries and seen their tears. Thou hast accepted their righteous sacrifices."
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/63344/Tegucigalpa-Honduras-Temple-Touch-lives-and-hearts-of-those-seeking-the-message-of-truth.html

Mormonism - replacing the true history of America's indigenous people with fantasy since 1830.

The foolishness of the Lard's Anointed will never end: denial of DNA findings, denial of Egyptological and linguistic analysis of BoA, denial of linguistic analysis of BoM, lack of archaeological evidence for ancient Israeli immigration to America, etc..

Sure, science does not explain everything, but one simply can't rationally reduce science to nothing and dismiss all of the findings based on it just because those findings do not serve one's interest.

Now, my question is: how are those Big 15 A-holes intellectually and spiritually different from the Catholic bigots that persecuted Galileo and mocked his findings?

Galileo's persecution took place in the 1500s, with the limited knowledge everyone had back then.

The Catholic church has moved on.
Huuuge difference.

Galileo provided the knowledge and the Catholic hierarchy rejected and mocked it.

Catholic has moved on....after hundreds of years?

To me, they are one of a kind - bigots that reject evidence because evidence undermines their interest.

Huge difference? Think again.

That was 500 years ago.

Are you a Catholic? If not, why worry about it.

Religions have a right to set their own agenda within their realm.
But no one is forcing you to join them or to support them.

The Mormon Church is only doing in real time what Catholics have been doing for centuries. Mormons had limited knowledge when they made up the tribe crap. NOT a huugggeee difference. It's the same process.

Over and over we hear Catholics demanding their history, far worse than anything Mormons ever could pull off, be forgiven. But yet Catholics have no problem criticizing Mormons who are trying to revise their history. Go figure.

It's the same model. Catholics will admit they were wrong about something 100s of years later. So will Mormons. It doesn't excuse all the BS they taught and enforced just because time passed.

About the Lehi tribe, I think Mårv Fråndsen said it best below on this thread. His comments apply to many current things Catholics teach as well as other religions. It's all about the audience the comment is intended for at the time they say it.

1. It takes 500 years to realize they are wrong?

2. Are you a Catholic? If not, why worry about it. I am not worried about it at all. I just said that the Catholic hierarchy back then are just as much of bigots as the Big 15. Why are you so defensive when I say that? Unless you think the perpetuation Galileo suffered is justifiable.

3. No one is asking you to defend them, why are you defending them?

4. "Religions have a right to set their own agenda within their realm." Wow, so all religious bigotry is justifiable then. Then, as long as it's "in their realm," it is oKto call gays and lesbians "devious" and "sinning against nature" and nobody should decry the religious institution?

Wow...what you've posted on this thread speaks volumes about you.

My previous ^post^ is intended for "Leah."

jl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now, my question is: how are those Big 15 A-holes
> intellectually and spiritually different from the
> Catholic bigots that persecuted Galileo and mocked
> his findings?

People listened to the Catholic church.

schmendrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now, my question is: how are those Big 15
> A-holes
> > intellectually and spiritually different from
> the
> > Catholic bigots that persecuted Galileo and
> mocked
> > his findings?
>
> People listened to the Catholic church.


1. How is this an "intellectual" and "spiritual" difference (as I indicated in the my previous post)?

2. Listened in "past tense"? In other words, people no longer listen to them today?

3. "Listen" as "give heed to or follow their teachings"? I think not. Not even Catholics follow the teachings of their hierarchy.

Ugh...


*facepalm*


Somebody forgot to tell him that the church changed her stance on the matter....


"Lehi was 'amongst' the ancestors of those people mr Uchtdorf... psssstt.. hey!!... pssssttt...."

Uchtdorf ist ein Dummkopf.

Hahahaha!

Ja, stimmt. But he's a good-looking dummkopf.

Hondurans are the children of other Hondurans, and they are the children of early African people. Just like everyone else.

For scholars and outsiders Uchtdorf's comments are not doctrinal. They can fill in pseudoscience and speculation as necessary.

For the pew Mormons, Uctdorf is reiterating old and well known doctrine that everyone knows is true and is inspiring.

It is a win-win and everybody is happy.

Well, exmos who want to insist on logic and accountability aren't happy, but who cares about them.

Yup, that's unfortunately the way the game is played.

Lamanites...or Nephites?

Both would be descendants of Lehi, since he was everybody's righteous dad. Descendants of Lehi sounds better than Lehites, but it also sounds better than Lamanites who were mostly evil most of the time, but had that sexy darker skin. But did Herr Uchtdorf mean those who had mixed European blood with original native Lehites or maybe Nephites who happened to not be massacred at the last battle with Mormon and/or Moroni? I find it likely that some Nephites made it through the battles and kept their light skin and pretty blue eyes, they would have been descendants of Lehi, but so were the Runnin' Utes...

I'm so confused.

Someone smart needs to do some official DNA research and settle this please!!!

No Middle East haplogroups were found that couldn't be shown to be from post Columbian admixture... And it wasn't because they weren't looking...

Praise the Lord and pass the Etch-a-Sketch...

BULLSHIT!!!!!

They came from the town my sister lives in? That's the only real Lehi I know about. That guy in the BoM is imaginary.

What a coincidence! I am a son of Odin!

Huh. I thought they'd backed off that phrase. Thanks for the update.

I hate to brean the new to Pickel Boy but the Hondurans probably have DNA that can be traced to east Asia. Not west Asia where Jerusalem is.

Can we get a ruling from the church right now to determine whether or not he was speaking as an apostle? Or do we have to wait for the scientists?

haha I always loved the "they weren't really speaking by the spirit on that one" excuse.

And how quick they forget the quote that "The Lord will not allow the prophet to lead the church astray"...but don't worry about all the crazy things old Brigham taught, it was needed for that time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2013 08:44PM by rusty123.

Nah, it was an unimportant temple dedication thingy - not speaking as an apostle, nor as a prophet (even though all 15 are "prophets, seers, revelators), nor on behalf. Hell, he wasn't even speaking by the spirit. He was just speaking as a man. The fancy clothes and cool location and bowed heads and words like thee, and thine and father in heaven and jesus christ - nope, it doesn't mean jack.

Actually, scientists have proven that Honduran decendants actually come from Cybertron!

Some people desire to be the fictional descendent of a fictional ancestor, god, goddess, or stuffed animal of their choice. Truth matters not to such people.

It's one thing to believe it for yourself; it's quite another to tell people they need to believe it and pay you or the institution founded upon your belief.

there is a small chance that some where in their history that some one in the family tree might have been named "Lehi" or had a similarly pronounced name. It just isn't the character in a book Uchty is thinking of....

Uchtdorf's nonsense will be forgotten in years to come. Here are two temple dedications of the past that said the descendants of Lehi would become "white and delightsome". When that didn't happen they simply changed the words in the Book of Mormon.

Salt Lake Temple, 1893, Wilford Woodruff
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/61688/Salt-Lake-Temple-O-Lord-we-regard-with-intense-and-indescribable-feelings-the-completion-of-this-sacred-house.html
Remember in like pity the dwindling remnants of the House of Israel, descendants of Thy servant Lehi. Restore them we pray Thee, to Thine ancient favor, fulfill in their completeness the promises given to their fathers, and make of them a white and delightsome race, a loved and holy people as in former days.

Idaho Falls Temple, 1945, George Albert Smith
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/61725/Idaho-Falls-Idaho-Temple-We-pray-for-the-youth-everywhere.html
O Father, remember Thy promises made unto Thy holy prophets regarding the remnants of those whom Thou didst lead unto this western hemisphere, that they should not be utterly destroyed but that a remnant should be preserved which would turn from their wickedness, repent of their sins, and eventually become a white and delightsome people. May the day speedily come when those promises will be fulfilled.

How's that for "inspired statements" of dedicatory prayers?

+100 lols

Can we extrapolate that to mean Uchtdorf is endorsing the idea that Lehi and his fam landed somewhere in Central or South America?

>> Our hearts are filled with gratitude for
>> Thy blessing of the sons and daughters
>> of Lehi. Thou hast heard their cries and
>> seen their tears. Thou hast accepted
>> their righteous sacrifices.


You can extrapolate all you want. Based on context (you know, being in Honduras and all) you would think that is exactly what he means (which he does). However, as Mårv said, the scholars will say that this is a general statement, speaking generally that somewhere, wherever those sons and daughters might be, that's who he is talking about. Luckily for him, he never specified *these* people *here* as being the sons/daughters. It's all semantics. Smoke and mirrors. Is it "doctrinal" "official" etc., etc.? Nope, just words.

FAIR says that these prayers tell us about Book of Mormon geography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOGnSNzKlqQ

Someone should ask FAIR about the "white and delightsome" prayers.

Salt Lake Temple, 1893, Wilford Woodruff
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/61688/Salt-Lake-Temple-O-Lord-we-regard-with-intense-and-indescribable-feelings-the-completion-of-this-sacred-house.html
Remember in like pity the dwindling remnants of the House of Israel, descendants of Thy servant Lehi. Restore them we pray Thee, to Thine ancient favor, fulfill in their completeness the promises given to their fathers, and make of them a white and delightsome race, a loved and holy people as in former days.

Idaho Falls Temple, 1945, George Albert Smith
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/61725/Idaho-Falls-Idaho-Temple-We-pray-for-the-youth-everywhere.html
O Father, remember Thy promises made unto Thy holy prophets regarding the remnants of those whom Thou didst lead unto this western hemisphere, that they should not be utterly destroyed but that a remnant should be preserved which would turn from their wickedness, repent of their sins, and eventually become a white and delightsome people. May the day speedily come when those promises will be fulfilled.