In church yesterday, in Sunday school, the teach was talking about the natural man and how it was so evil and that none of us should ever be close to be considered one. But I'm curious, I've never heard a church definition of a natural man. What is it? And why do they think it is so bad?

Easy....

It is whatever the current crop of geriatrics doesn't like or approve of.

Don't you be telling me it's Arnold Schwartzenegger. In fact, in Morg theology it refers to any person who has not experienced the light of christ/gospel/spirituality--any descendant of "adam" after he was allowed out of the original pen, but who has not accepted, or who has rejected, the Morg proselytizers/program. In other words, anyone who's having fun.

Natural man is better for you than imitation man.

....to lazy to look up the specific reference. As I understood it when I was TBM, Human beings are created as inferior beings who will seek to do evil. Unless they overcome their natural tendencies via help from Casper the "Holey Ghost with the Most" they are doomed to suffer in the hereafter.

Now I see it as the perfect example of why you will never, ever be good enough in Mormonism.

We talked about the natural man all the time at church! It's mentioned in the scriptures a lot. But now I realize I don't think I've ever been told the precise definition of one.

But I think the general gist of it is that, as humans, we have temptations to sin. We have the fundamental behaviour that we have to overcome. Like he have to resist our lustful desires, our materialistic desires, and so on. So basically keep the commandments.

I'm not really certain though. Thing is, I had dozens of lessons on this, but I can't remember ever being told exactly what the definition is. The question we discussed was usually "How can we overcome the natural man?", not "What is the natural man?".

well, since homosexuality is un-natural, i think it is pretty clear.

it is all the heteros out there who are natural, since they are clearly not un-natural.

i seem to recall they are all enemies to god

oh dear

Me. I am definitely the enemy of the shallow, murderous, needs to be worshipped constantly, can't make up his mind, Mormon God.

...one who doesn't manscape

LOL

The natural man is whatever they can use to guilt you into being subservient to them.

You might be a natural man if you:
...are sexual outside of marriage.
...are not sexual in marriage.
...are freaky sexual in or out of marriage.
...do not paying tithing.
...think about masturbating or nude body parts in your mind.
...are afraid to have kids when you're married.
...watch TV on Sunday.
...go to R rated movies.
...hang out with smokers and drinkers.
...act like everyone else in the world.
...feel holy for not acting like everyone else in the world.
...do not feel guilt during the sacrament for some reason--you're not thinking hard enough.
...think others should be treated equally regardless of their beliefs.
...vote democratic.
...have questions about the church and don't keep them to yourself.
...visit RfM.


Paul Toscano (one of the Sept 6) has said, "Good members of the LDS church are relentlessly pressured to strain at gnats by avoiding alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, curse words, facial hair, tattoos, R-rated movies, necking, liberal studies, and genuine dissent, while being constantly encouraged to swallow camels by tolerating elitism, historical racism, sexism, lack of deep intimacy, moral superiority, institutional secrecy, class discrimination, and the abdication of personal judgment and responsibility to wisemen in the know."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2013 02:16PM by Jesus Smith.

Paul Toscano (one of the Sept 6) has said, "Good members of the LDS church are relentlessly pressured to strain at gnats by avoiding alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, curse words, facial hair, tattoos, R-rated movies, necking, liberal studies, and genuine dissent, while being constantly encouraged to swallow camels by tolerating elitism, historical racism, sexism, lack of deep intimacy, moral superiority, institutional secrecy, class discrimination, and the abdication of personal judgment and responsibility to wisemen in the know."


great quote. and you are the Sept 7th, Jesus Smith, aren't you?

"A person who chooses to be influenced by the passions, desires, appetites, and senses of the flesh rather than by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Such a person can comprehend physical things but not spiritual things. All people are carnal, or mortal, because of the fall of Adam and Eve. Each person must be born again through the atonement of Jesus Christ to cease being a natural man."

More definitions with scripture referances...

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/natural-man?lang=eng

In order to brainwash everyone, the church has to create polar opposites like good and evil, and convince us that we're currently in a war between good and evil. Yes, there is good and evil in the world but this "natural man" thing is a prime example of a part of the brainwashing that the church does. Rather than recognize that the natural man has many good qualities as well as bad qualities, they focus on just the dark things, ignoring the fact that such things as compassion and generousity are also natural human qualities. Put simply, the natural man is (to the church), anyone who doesn't buy in to the brainwashing and do what they're told. Because they promote that without the church, we would all be a bunch of evil beings without much potential for anything other than to be converted in to their brainwashing, hopefully before it's too late.

Natural man finds his own way, makes his own rules, but within the rules of the jungle and he's the most interesting man in the world.

Unnatural man is laden with rules others have maded and gets beaten over the head any time he strays from the path of what others tell him to do/be/act/say.

OK, which one do you want to be?

If the "natural man is an enemy to God", and God created man, why did God make such a terrible mistake?

A logical mind fuck.

Oh, I think that's what I'm going to answer a tbm if I'm ever in a conversation about the 'natural man is an enemy of God'...

"So, the friend of God is an unnatural man?"

The "natural man" is whatever you want to do.

The opposite of that is what "god" wants you to do.

Who cares, as long as he makes Aretha feel like a Natural Woman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi6dqhi8Ptw

The "natural man" is the mormon corporations way to screw with your brain. In reality ofcourse all human desires and ambitions are natural, warm fuzzies are just as natural as intense lust. But through the "evil natural man"-doctrine they tell you that everything they want you to feel is from god and everything they don't want you to feel is that boogyman in the closet - that evil natural man - inside you that you therefore shouldn't trust. The essence of it is that we should trust the mormon church and not ourselves.

What the natural man is not:

A weasel in a cheap business suit.
One who carries holy oil.
A kiss up to fake authority.
A priesthood holder.
A simpering coward who fears beer and bikinis.
My father.

Somebody who wanders around the house late Friday evening, in nothing but his one-piecers, telling all the friends to go home. (Shuddering.)

Yes, exactly. He did do that!

How mortified were you? At first, I was so embarrassed I wanted to crawl in a hole. But thank god my friends laughed it off (their parents were all ultra-TBM too), and soon his behavior became a running joke at the friday night gatherings.

It was awful. His one piece was threadbare, so you could see through it. And the butt flap did indeed flap, revealing a hairy pair of bifurcated cheeks. Agghhh. I swore I would never wear the ugly things and never did.

I love how most people covered what a "natural man" is and is not but yet in the bible it states "thou shall love thy neighbour"
With these few quotes here right from the bibles.... These say to love all with equality as if they are no different to yourself..... Yet churches push away people who are gay or lesbians or to be considered a "natural man" but yet god states to love everyone with out judgement...
I find that kinda funny, and probably why im an Ex Mormon, and now a practicing Buddhist, cause is buddhism you love everything with the same love no matter who they are or how small they may be...

here's the few direct quotes from the bibles.

"John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Romans 12:9-21
Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality. ...

Psalm 5:11
11 But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you.

Luke 6:31-36
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

1 Corinthians 16:14
Do everything in love

My TBM brother often says, "Man is, that he may have joy."

Does this describe the 'natural man' guy or what?

My sister and I once had a conversation about birth control.

I said (I was TBM then) that the pill was "un-natural."

She asked how we should practice controlling birth, if at all.

I said we should only use natural means, like abstention.

She said "Well, THAT isn't natural."

It was obvious that she was married and I was not.

She was right.

The Natural man is like the "honey-badger"..... Natural man don't give shit!

Haha.....love that YouTube video!

One more quote for this thread.... And i can say this possibly
Could not be any better of a quote for this topic
And its also something that over 99% of any christian wether they be roman catholic, prods, or mormons of any kind

James 4:11-12

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbour?

Jehovah's distaste for foreskins is well documented.