Thank you for your concern and love for her brother and our hope is that he has or is receiving the necessary counseling to assist him arising out of his childhood experience. The Church clearly does not countenance or tolerate any degree of abuse. The Stake President has indicated that the process is underway to annotate the records of the brother. If you have any specific information about another incident of abuse 2-3 years ago, we need to have the specifics and the victim should be instructed to go to the police. If the individual is a member of the Church they should confirm if the incident did or did not happen to their priesthood leaders. Priesthood leaders can help the individual to obtain appropriate counseling. It does us little good to have allegations come that are anonymous and without sufficient detail to allow us to investigate and interview the affected individual. With all of your concern that justice take place, it is not appropriate for you to send anonymous letters to individuals detailing past events or incidents of abuse. These matters are extremely confidential and need to be appropriately handled. We would ask that you not involve yourself any more in writing letters or pursuing your own agenda—unless, of course, you can give us detailed information that will help in an investigation.
My brother got sexually abused by a high priest 16 years ago and the stake president called it "help to self gratification". So I send an e-mail to the Area Presidency and this is his reply I could scream. The high priest has even admitted in having had a problem in this area but says has repented. I know of 3 14 year old boys who he did it to but it was about 16 years ago. All of them are inactive in the church and haven't been in church for many years. Well the stake president told me if I wanted an annotation then my brother would have to testify in church court although the "High Priest" I call him sex offender has admitted in doing it already but they say they need my brothers statement. I said I then can talk to me or my mom as my brother has already told the story 2 times once to my mom and a month later 2 me. That should be enough for anyone to talk about such a horrible thing.
Yes!! Tell the police AND the media. This kind of bullshit needs to stop. Imagine the power if all of the survivors of this systematic and institutional abuse/coverup were to step forward, together. There would be no way to stop the avalanche...
"If the individual is a member of the Church they should confirm if the incident did or did not happen to their priesthood leaders."
Wait - a sexual abuse incident happened. And the SP phrases it "happen TO their priesthood leaders." Sounds to me like the SP is using some careful wording in a lame attempt to shift the blame to your brother.
Sexual abuse happens to the VICTIM. Not to the perpetrator.
You're right - it's poorly worded, but the SP very likely meant that the person should confirm to the priesthood leader that the incident did (or did not) happen.
They all agreed to not the the high priests wife about it since the sex offender had repented. But oh I know his wife since over 20 years and I wrote an anonymous letters saying that her husband has helped many young man to achieve orgasm and that the Bishop and Stake President know about it for a while. The Bishop told the high priest names of his victims and the sex offender showed up unannounced at one victims door and said that his wife is upset at him. Well the victim played like he didn't know anything and the perv left. The church is protecting the perv and is totally not protecting the victims.
"Priesthood leaders can help the individual to obtain appropriate counseling."
"With all of your concern that justice take place, it is not appropriate for you to send anonymous letters to individuals detailing past events or incidents of abuse. These matters are extremely confidential and need to be appropriately handled. We would ask that you not involve yourself any more in writing letters or pursuing your own agenda—unless, of course, you can give us detailed information that will help in an investigation."
Oh, how I love it when they implicitly tell people it is NOT appropriate to discuss such matters with anyone other than TSCC.
Does the letter imply that the victim or his family are NOT supposed to write to or talk to professionals of the victim's or his family's choosing and discuss the incident in details?
Is "appropriate" exclusively defined as "TSCC"?
Covering up for your own a bit too much?
Doesn't justice trumpt "taking care of one's own" in the church of the Almighty?
I'm not a fan of anonymous letters. If you have something to say, say it to the person's face. If you don't want to say it to the person directly, then don't say it at all.
I would take any concerns about molestation or abuse directly to the police. Even if there is insufficient evidence for the molester to be charged, it will at least put that person on their radar.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 11:12AM by summer.
<<It does us little good to have allegations come that are anonymous and without sufficient detail to allow us to investigate and interview the affected individual. With all of your concern that justice take place, it is not appropriate for you to send anonymous letters to individuals detailing past events or incidents of abuse. These matters are extremely confidential and need to be appropriately handled.>>
If you have appropriate details, take them to the police and get a police report. Then, email the police report to the SP and the Area Presidency.
Trying to get Justice for a Crime through the TSCC is not the right way.....the right way is to go to the legal system, and then notify the TSCC of what the legal system is doing.
Only knowing the details from this thread, it appears obvious that a crime was committed...the TSCC is NOT the place to report a crime. Neither is going to the alleged perp's family....take it to the police...it is their job to handle these matters.
Summer, I send the letter because I was told I was not allowed to talk to his wife by the bishop and my mom and I promised them that. However I did not promise to not write a letter. Oh and I send the bishop an e-mail saying exactly what I wrote to his wife. His daughter the high priests daughter and I used to be in Young Women together. She lives at home with her parents although she is 30 years old. I send the letter anonymous when my friend was at work I tried calling but the high priest picked up the phone and he knows that I am the one who told the bishop. They share one cell phone and guess who usually answers it? Yup him. Before I send the letter I had ask several months the bishop or stake president to please talk to his wife as he has sexually abused his adoptive son. But they ignored my e-mail. He was still active in Scouts as a group leader well I called Scouts they talk to our high priest and he got released from Scouts but Scouts has nothing to do with church there.
Where did this happen-- can you say? A similar thing happened in my ward 16 years ago. The HP was a favorite leader with the youth. Very charming and personable. It was all hush-hush after it was discovered. They tried their darndest to keep it quiet. Made me sick to watch it all unfold.
And TBMs think they are in a position to laugh at and ridicule the Roman Catholic Church for moving those pedophile priests around and covering up the crimes?
Heck, in the case you are talking about and in OP's case, TSCC doesn't even bother to get a pedophile out of the scene.
English is my second language. Anyway the first e-mail I received from a stake president was last month. Google translated it for me.
Dear Sister X,
My name is X and I am the stake president of the pile X.
I want to assure you that we are all part of our responsibility do to protect victims. We also try to find the right balance between Confidentiality and to find the necessary information. I can understand that they are very excited about the transgressions of Br X are applied. At the same time we are a little concerned that it the Task of a judge in Israel, one of the keys of a bishop and Stake presidents even pick it up. I do not think that you gain the satisfaction and that it is useful in the matter.
Church discipline is carried out for three reasons:
First The perpetrator intended to help reverse Second Victims should be protected Third The church is to be kept pure.
The transgressions of Br X are long gone, and he was successfully treated. As far as we can tell, there were no Relapses. He has assured us, and we are no further Occurrences known. The deeds sincerely feel sorry for him. In D & C we will asked everyone to forgive, the Lord reserves the right to whom he awards. Victims also can only find peace of mind again when they forgive the perpetrator - otherwise, they shall give the offender remains a nasty Power over their lives a.
Since I'm not your stake president, it's not my place, you Giving advice. But I would like an open and constructive dialogue with you to help you in the procedure of the Church understand such matters and can accept. The things that Br x did produce, often a large reverberation, when they come to light. You can destroy entire families. I hope it do you realize how many lives affected by the further course can be.
For a disciplinary after such a long time would be a direct Testimony of your brother needed. The Disciplinary Board may from brother x not ask for more, as he has already done - to profess and sin can. A congregation finds its bishop is not even. Br x was never provided for such a vocation.
He went in to the same ward as my mom. And my mom talked to the bishop now the high priest is going to a different ward. Well in his new ward he is already attending Youth Firesides because the new bishop doesn't know what has has happened. This has happened outside the USA and by law there people have 5 years once they turn 18 to sue after that it's expired in their eyes. So my brother can't do anything in civil court about it. But I do want to protect the new ward our high priest is attending now. Over there are not many members and so if someone says he can pick up your son to drive 1 hour to a fireside you say yes. Gas is expensive and many members are poor. Sorry I am a TBM and what they are doing seems so wrong to me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 03:47PM by subeam.
I'd say this has nothing to do with the church and everything to do with the police. Stop talking to church leaders and go straight to the police. Sexual abuse is a criminal act - to hell with the church leaders!
They DO NOT protect victims! They will put them right back in contact with the perp the very next day.
They will protect the perp. and re-victimize the victim. They will often blame the victim.
They will not get you appropriate help. They will give you a someone from the church services. Their main concern is to keep the church from getting sued, and to keep your story out of the media. They have great fear of those two things happening. They have no problem blaming the victim. It often will stop a law suit.
I've had first hand experience with this when my niece was raped. The bishop tried to blame her(she was11) even though he knew the guy had raped 9 other little girls including his sister.
I would go to the police, and then the local news.
pretty easy, notify the police, come forward to the church and confront the abuser to force the church to do something, then a call to the local media to explain the situation. Writing an anonymous letter is about as effective as posting about it in a message board. Take some action, or do what you are doing while other victims pile up.
In April I send an e-mail to the police and now they are investigating the high priest for child pornography. I stated that I heard everything 3rd hand. The high priest did get kicked out from the boy scouts. High Priest had admitted to having had a problem to the Stake President and the Bishop, as the e-mail said everyone thinks he has repeated and will never do it again. Well since the church is fraud and now I am not worried about getting exed anymore I have forwarded the e-mails from the bishop and the stake president to the police. I wonder if the stake president would tell the police also like he told my mom that the high priest did "help to self gratification" instead of calling it sexual abuse of a minor.
Good! I'm very glad the real authorities are working on the matter. You probably saved some children from abuse. Thanks for being persistent! I only wish everyone who knew about abuse could be so bold.
Report it. The leadership will do nothing. They may try to talk to you or your family, but you don't have to speak to them. You have already tried that. The leaders don't really care if this guy has committed a crime. They only care about the number of priesthood leaders and if this guy is paying tithing. The church leadership has NO authority in criminal matters...only the police.
I apologize as this thread is really serious but I just wanted to point out that this person is SuBeam (missing N)
I'm sunbeam, a lurker, rare poster since the late 90's and just wanted to make sure that there was no confusion. Just a little uncomfortable about the close name.
For what I have seen in the past, church leaders will not prosecute or pursue prosecution of anyone even if the church claims the opposite. If justice needs to be done, you have to look for help from the legal system. The church leaders would be fast to judge some things but the important stuff, like legal matters, they prefer to stay out of it. You, with your brother, should look for help in this case with the proper legal system. Good luck.
You are right maybe I should go to the police but I don't want to spend $$$ for plane tickets. My husband would have to take vacation time to watch our 3 kids.
Legally due to the statute of limitation we can't sue him.
In 2013 I doubt they would try to excommunicate you for reporting it to the police. If you wonder about this then just send an email saying "please confirm in writing if I risk any church discipline for filing a report to the police regarding sexual abuse allegations in order that the rights of the victims will have the opportunity to get justice through the criminal justice system." There's practically zero chance they'd respond in writing with anything but acceptance of you contacting the police, yet most likely they wouldn't respond. And I'd suggest that you be very careful in your reports to the police to say "my brother alleged to me that [what he reported happened]" and also do the same regarding whatever allegations you've heard regarding other victims. Since YOU were not the victim it's not fair for you to say "this is definitively what happened" and it's not your responsibility to do an investigation. When the police do an investigation there are criminal penalties potentially facing anyone who lies to them so its better to have them, not you and not some volunteer leader such as a Stake President do such an investigation.