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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 10:40AM

Bednar spoke on March 3, 2013 at a CES devotional in Arlington, TX. His talk focused on the idea that it is better to not shrink than it is to survive.

http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/ces-devotionals/2013/01?lang=eng&vid=2201224691001

The wackiest fun statement of the talk was that life is a "powerful penetrating pattern of paradoxes". Most of the talk was absolutely lame and didn't even have many zany topics or statements that we could lance and poke at.

The largest part was focused on a story of a newly wedded couple, three weeks after the nuptials, learning that the young husband had cancer with about a 30% chance of survival. They called on Bednar to bless them. The wife was convinced that Bednar had the (magic) power to heal her new husband, like Bednar was some kind of wizard.

Instead of promising a miracle, Bednar asked the young man (paraphrased):

"John, do you have the faith NOT to be healed. Do you have the faith to submit to god's will if it were his will to not be healed and to be called to continue your ministry in the spirit world?"

(I couldn't almost hear it in Elder Borat-style: "Do you have the faith to be healed ... ... ... NOT!" )

Effectively Elder Borat was asking the guy if he would give his life for the church.

And lo-and-behold, despite Bednar's unblessing, the miracle still happened. And of course, Bednar claimed it as a miraculous cure--John was healed. Then years later, he got cancer again. I don't think Bednar said whether he died or lived the second time, but by his tone about submitting to god, I gather the man died.

At the end Bednar said "If all maladies were healed and problems curtailed, then god's plan would be frustrated. "

I realize that this is meant to be revealing in a deep secret that god has a higher purpose and is testing us, but it seems so lame from a post-mo perspective. Bednar's version of god seems lame and ineffective given the extremely low success rate of teaching humans to be good mormons.

At the end, Bednar did admit "I do not the meaning of all things." And then went on to proclaim that he does know some things, like god is real, jesus is real, joseph smith is really cool, etc.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 10:49AM by Jesus Smith.

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Posted by: Mormoney ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 11:57AM

Sounds like he's got bet hedging and prophetic voice melding down to a science.

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Posted by: elciz ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 12:10PM

Cancer had its way with the young man, sadly. Bednar's blessing was just words in the wind with no effect one way or the other. The doctors probably gave him remission the first time around. They never seem to get any credit...

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Posted by: jong1064 ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 12:14PM

Well, God created the doctors, didn't he? It's so f'd up how people think that God "giveth and God taketh away." That was one of the first chinks in my testimony. Why would God cure some little kids' cancer and not others? Oh yeah - because there is no God!

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Posted by: Mormoney ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 12:18PM

It's interesting that god all too often gets credit for curing people of illnesses when in fact it was doctors and science. Somehow, god can only ever cure scientifically curable illnesses. Has god ever cured HIV? Sadly no. The only documented cases of HIV being cured, as seen in the news recently, have been a couple of cases, and thanks to cold hard science. Mind you, religious folk may say that god cured them with the help of scientists. Somehow, microbes and viruses are too small to be within the realm of human control, and such things are too magical and small to be controlled by anything other than god. Maybe we should pray to god to cure our computers of computer viruses.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 02:33PM

When I hear the idea that god works miracles by giving us the truth and enlightenment of science (medical and other), I like to point out (in my own mind) how the rate of non-religious and either agnostic/atheist in the National Acadamey of Science is over 90% (~50% for non NAS scientists). Apparently, god is performing his greatest miracles of the day through the biggest doubters. So much for the need to have faith to perform miracles and move mountains.

refs
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
http://news.discovery.com/tech/are-scientists-atheists.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 02:37PM by Jesus Smith.

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Posted by: iris ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 11:07AM

+1

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 12:30PM

Mormon priesthood was the second fraud that helped me leave the Mormon church pre-Internet. It clearly is not the power and authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ here on earh.

The tortured efforts to make it so after be fact ar just cognitive-dissonance expertise hat Mormon church has developed over 180 years and on over millions of trusting people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:30PM by gentlestrength.

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Posted by: Bamboozled ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 01:31PM

So if all maladies were healed and problems curtailed, then god's plan would be frustrated then why the F@#K does god give us weasley little mortals the holy priesthood (you know, the same power God has to create the universe)?

Why do some patriarchal blessings contain the gift of healing? BTW, my poor cancer striken mother came to her son who she knew had been given this 'gift' in his PB hoping to be cured. She died 2 months after the blessing.

Mormonism: handing out mindf@#k's since 1830.

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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 01:38PM

I can't believe I used to love that douche. That talk he gave about being offended was my mantra for a long time. What the hell is wrong with being offended if someone is offensive?

I swear, some of these guys don't even think over what they say. Maybe they should have a Kindergartner read their talk to see if it makes sense.

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Posted by: Dallin A. Chokes ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 02:32PM

So is Bednar trying to take over the alliteration throne left vacant with mealy-mouthed muckracker Maxwell's departure?

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Posted by: WakingUpVegas ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 02:47PM

I feel like this talk excuses all the blessings people expect to work, but don't. It's like the disclaimer you hear so much, "But if it's God's will that you don't heal, we bless you and your family to accept it".
To me, it sounds like he's admitting there's just some cases where the priesthood power isn't going to cut it. And if you die, but with faith, you're all good because you died for the church and you'll get to be a missionary in heaven.

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Posted by: alx71ut ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 02:58PM

I don't know if this will add or detract to the message of this thread. But recently my TBM told me that Elder David Bednar of the Q12 is a wonderful man.

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Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 03:08PM

"If all maladies were healed and problems curtailed, then god's plan would be frustrated. "

I basically asked this same question of my then HT’s when they gave me a faith promoting healing story.

I asked a simple question. “what if god wanted this man to die and the priesthood blessing overrode gods will?” It so derailed the HT’s that they said their goodbye pleasantries right then and never returned. New HT’s were assigned.

We, (meaning us boys not you girls) were taught that having the priesthood was POWERFULL and that if you were righteous you could move mountains and that god must allow whatever you asked for if it was righteous (disclaimer for god right there) he must allow the priesthood to “make it happen”. After raising your arm to the square, that is.

Funny ain’t it, that outside of church and in the real world we would never make such a wild proclamation.

It is more possible that someday Pigs will fly, yet the priesthood will still be make believe.

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 05:02PM

He had a powerful pattern of penetrating a pair of boxes.

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Posted by: sherlock ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 05:09PM

Maybe in a later momentary tissy-fit, Bednar secretly rescinded this Apostolic blessing, leading to the return of the cancer. Apparently Bednar has a history of revoking blessings.

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthread.php?57178-Official-revocation-of-an-Apostolic-blessing

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Posted by: Bite Me ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 06:11PM

Bednar is an assclown and a douche. Nice to mess with people's lives like that. He's a fucktard and deserves to get cancer so he can be asked if he has the faith not to be healed.

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Posted by: bedbug bednar ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 10:27PM

hear hear! what kind of jerk plays with cancer patients as puppets for his own ego?

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: March 12, 2013 02:17AM

I had a mission president who used to tell us that if we got sick it was because we were not spiritually right with God. After my mission I heard that he had serious heart problems and some other serious aliment. His wife sent out emails asking for our prayers for his health to improve. The worm eventually turns.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 10:42PM

It's all just witchery in the end.

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Posted by: sparkyguru ( )
Date: March 11, 2013 11:13PM

can you help?

we can pray for you...

yeah but is there anything useful you can do?

uhh no...

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Posted by: Tonto Schwartz ( )
Date: March 12, 2013 12:44AM

Why do you think the Mormon God blesses Bednar's food while he allows hundreds of thousands of gentiles to die of starvation every year? It's the power of the priesthood.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: March 12, 2013 03:44AM

The Pickle-Man just might be after your title as The Great Alliterator!

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Posted by: Striving to be better ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 10:02AM

It's too bad you didn't understand this message, because it was really inspirational. The massage is that God has the power to do all things, but for divine purposes there are things that he decides not to do. We need to trust that when things don't go the way we would expect or desire, it is for the best. This message brought hope to the cancer patient without giving him a false hope. How can this not be a good thing?

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 10:32AM

Giving hope is not bad, but all religions claim to do that. Atheists give hope too.

So what? Why is Mormonism particularly unique in this regard?

However, what Bednar is actually doing is copping out because he knows he's never performed a legitimate miracle and he knows he won't. That's not hope, that's scheming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2013 10:32AM by Jesus Smith.

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Posted by: utahstateagnostics ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 10:38AM

He's covering his bases in case the magic oil juju routine doesn't work.

That way, if the guy is healed, it's a miracle! And if he's not healed, it's god's will!

Either way, God/the church comes out on top. Heads, I win; tails, you lose.

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Posted by: LCMc ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 10:42AM

I'm always surprised when people say Thank God for the Doctors. They should be thanking the Med Schools they went to, the scientists that made the discoveries and the long list of Drs. that came before them.

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Posted by: mrtranquility ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 10:42AM

(with an alliterative high-five to Steve Benson). This is just Bednar's BSey way of saying that although it doesn't make any sense it's still true.

Supposedly, a Priesthood holder has the right to act in God's name, but then can also get overridden by Mormon God at any time. So, in the end, if Mormon God is going to do what ever he wants anyway, doesn't it render the Priesthood meaningless? Now that is a "powerful pattern of paradox"! Or, in other words, simply a euphemism for "bullsh!t"!

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 11:00AM

"...if Mormon God is going to do what ever he wants anyway, doesn't it render the Priesthood meaningless?"

I think so. If there is a God, and I pray to be healed, and it's his will that I should be healed, why would it take a priesthood blessing to heal me? If it's not his will, I don't need a priesthood holder to tell me to get ready to die.

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Posted by: CTRringturnsmyfingergreen ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 11:14AM

I agree absolutely.

If God has his "plan" and "his will", what sense does it make to pray.

If we have "free agency" and he can't intervene, why are we praying?

Conclusion: Praying is pointless.

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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: November 05, 2013 11:23AM

Give up trying to get anything else out of it cuz there isn't anything else. They got nothin' other than it's true.

If anyone ever wanted an real life enactment of the emperor's new clothes Mormonism is it.

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