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Posted by: rainwriter ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 12:58AM

So, a friend of mine was called into the honor office this week and suspended for the rest of the semester because he held another guy's hand at devotional a few weeks ago. Apparently, one of the other guy's roommates saw, gave him the "we love you" talk and then turned them both in to the student honor office. The awesome part is that it was during the "morality/purity/gay-is-bad" devotional.

So, no question, just thought I'd throw that out there for you guys to chew on and rant over, whathaveyou.

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Posted by: Fetal Deity ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:02AM

I think that a good way to accelerate change in the Mormon church, is for more gays to have the courage to do things like this (no small feat) ... and for these stories to then reach the mainstream press.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2013 01:13AM by Fetal Deity.

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Posted by: ladell ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:18AM

Having facial hair is also an offense worthy of suspension at BYU.
Mormons loathe freedom.

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:20AM

I thought it was now okay with TSCC to be gay as long as you didn't act on it. Acting on it would be having sex not holding hands. I've held plenty of female hands in my life and I'm not gay. Is this for real?

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Posted by: rainwriter ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:29AM

Yes, absolutely for real. It sucks, but yes.
And yes, it's absolutely a double standard with women; we can hold hands all we want and no one cares because we're girls and it's okay.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:33AM

Not to mention that it is often seen in other countries where the Mormon church would just love to have more members. I've seen men holding hands in Italy, and women holding hands or walking arm in arm in Mexico. Not everyone is as uptight as Americans are. And the Mormon church sexualizes even the most innocent contact.

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Posted by: Carol Y. ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 03:08AM


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Posted by: Mr. Neutron ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 12:51PM

At BYU, I was constantly watching straight female roommates involved in loving and affectionate touching. No one thinks twice about it. It is most definitely a double- and societal-standard. Every American in and out of the Mormon Church would automatically assume that two men engaged in the same level of touching are gay. Straight men only ever touch each other that way when they're joking. A minor exception would be something like an intense hug during an emotional experience, but they would never lie back on each other's chests stroking one another's hair, for instance.

Here's hoping all the lesbians at all the BYU schools hold hands and touch each other all they want in public. Enjoy the double standard while it lasts, ladies (which will probably be forever).

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Posted by: Joycee ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:28AM

We love gay people, we accept gay people, just don't you dare touch each other, or yourself, EVER! To illustrate how much we love you, we will kick you out of school and ruin your life. ::HUGS::

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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:31AM

He should so go to the media. Holding hands. How sinful!

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Posted by: tig ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 07:50AM

I so wish he would.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:33AM

The rule about facial hair is that you can desire it, but you can't act upon that desire without sinning. You can't let the hair grow and engage in beardliness. They don't hate the sinner, they hate his face.

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:47AM

I guess I'm a little slow here. So you can BE gay but you cannot let anybody know it? Is that what this boils down to or is there just a list of "Don'ts" that are spelled out in the Honor Code like: Don't look longingly into each other's eyes, Don't share a root beer with two straws, Don't sit on a bench where your legs might touch.......

That list could go on FOREVER !

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Posted by: rainwriter ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:53AM

Pretty much the list of don'ts.
From the honor code,
"The student lives a chaste and virtuous life, including avoidance
of pornography, abstinence from sexual relations outside of mar-
riage, and abstinence from homosexual behavior."

The problem is that "homosexual behavior" is highly subjective. Straight guys can hold hands with each other because they're straight so it's not homosexual behavior. It's okay to _be_ gay so long as they don't do anything that resembles coupling behaviors with the same gender.

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 02:21AM

Sorry to beat a dead horse but what you are saying is that it is okay for straight guys but if you are gay: cannot join wrestling team, no football tackling, no basketball (well, only if you promise never to bump into anyone below the waist), no arm wrestling, no cheer leading, no giving a leg up when riding horses......

Come on. The list is endless if you have to spell out what is defined as "coupling" behavior. Maybe they could have a five second rule where it's okay but anything longer than five seconds is coupling. Sounds like you can be gay and go to BYU but if anyone finds out that you are gay you'll be at their mercy because a perfectly innocent interaction of a physical nature could be misconstrued and you could lose a semester's tuition (and maybe a scholarship ?).

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Posted by: Cali Sally ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 02:29AM

Forgot to ask about the double standard. Sounds like BYU isn't terribly concerned about lesbian behavior if it's okay for girls to hold hands but not boys. Do they just not know about lesbians or is it just that the priesthood is only grossed out by male sex but anything females do is totally incomprehensible? Do the priesthood know that women can also have orgasms?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 03:24AM

Also, no shaking hands because that means that you are holding hands for a few seconds, only with the opposite hand. How gay! [/sarcasm]

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Posted by: Taddlywog ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 03:39AM

And that's not gay? My favorite Mormon said that happens.

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Posted by: tig ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 07:52AM

The list is not as long as you might think:

Do what your leaders tell you. If you disagree do it anyway. If anyone asks, you don't have an opinion.

Regards,
The Brethren.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:52AM

I know one guy who would totally get in trouble at BYUI. He was always hanging out with a bunch of guys, some of whom he is on the record of having kissed. One time, they all went a long time without seeing him, and the first thing he did when they had a reunion was tell them to stick their fingers into his holes. What was that guys name? Oh yeah, Jesus.

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Posted by: frankie ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:58AM

what is wrong BYU! they weren't having sex. they were reading each others palms.

I bet the BYU bigwigs have really dirty asses because they don't want to touch themselves to get their @#$%& off. I smell swamp ass, and it ain't the student's it the president's.

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Posted by: sherlock ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 02:47AM

The only part of the code I could find was 'abstinence from homosexual behavior'. So there you have it - holding hands is officially off limits.

TSCC has really created a huge rod for its back with this. They now say that being gay isn't a choice, that there is nothing inherently evil about having an attraction to the same sex, that you don't need to lose this attraction, that you mustn't act on it by having gay sex..........but actually you can't even demonstrate your orientation and affection by something as simple as holding hands.

I think this person and others should hit TSCC where it really hurts - negative PR. How about wearing bright pink t-shirts with the church logo and a 'holding hands' insignia?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2013 02:49AM by sherlock.

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Posted by: albertasaurus ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 08:21AM

They have a student honor office???? Wtf my wife really wants our kids to go there and i really don't. Add this to the list of one more reason not to. How much are they costing this kid for something that is probably illegal and certainly reprehensible. Imagine the outrage if any other school or organization did this.

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Posted by: Papa Ken ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 08:57AM

Ok then ..... Spencer Kimball and a slew of other GAs would also be kicked out of the YBU, too. I've seen those old farts holding hands in front of the whole church at GC.
Didn't bother ME so much. But then, I'm a gay.
What did you heteros think about GC homo hand holding?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 09:01AM

Papa Ken, it would be serously great to have a photo of some GAs holding hands. Anyone?

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Posted by: ladell ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 09:04AM

As a hetero I can honestly say that I feel the spirit when general authorities engage in homo hand holding.

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 09:18AM


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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 11:40AM

Wow!!

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Posted by: captain ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 11:04AM

Anyone surprised? Don't go to a homophobic Cult school if you want to do what you want to do. I don't feel sorry for anyone that goes to a Church school, you know what you are getting into. Go to a real school, you are an adult.

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Posted by: Minnie ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 11:08AM

I hate that school, I went there for a semester and was ready to leave.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 11:36AM

This is why I go ballistic if I hear anyone say, 'well at least the TSCC is taking baby steps--you have to give them credit. It's a step in the right direction'.

The Mormon church made the 'OK to be Gay' statement as a SHALLOW, INSINCERE, SELFISH move to aid their precious but ailing IMAGE! It was not a gesture of good will toward the gay community. It was a calculated attempt to boost their own image just before the Romney campaign. They don't care if the gay kids are killing themselves, they just don't want to be blamed.

Any Mormon TBM, Jackmo, or EXmo or Nevermo who believes for one second that any of their homophobic bigoted ways have changed in the slightest need to pull their heads out of their asses. I am talking about the Church itself. Not the individual members.

IT is a BIGOTED CULT and the leaders have the blood on their hands of every one of those beautiful, scared gay kids who kill themselves, or live through hating themselves, or decide to live a life of denial and loneliness.

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Posted by: Mr. Neutron ( )
Date: February 15, 2013 01:02PM

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Mormon church made the 'OK to be Gay'
> statement as a SHALLOW, INSINCERE, SELFISH move to
> aid their precious but ailing IMAGE! It was not a
> gesture of good will toward the gay community. It
> was a calculated attempt to boost their own image
> just before the Romney campaign. They don't care
> if the gay kids are killing themselves, they just
> don't want to be blamed.

Damn straight. No pun intended.

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