Lance Armstrong use to be a hero to me. I was so impressed by his story of triumph. He was a successful cyclist winning the tour de france 7 times, wow, amazing. He fought against and beat cancer. He started the Livestrong Foundation that has raised $500m and does many good things. Lance had many critics that accused him of doping. Lance courageously defended himself against these claims. People that were close to him that made these claims were fired, sued, and marginalized. Lance did everything he could to stop the truth from being revealed. I now wonder how I could have ever believed that he wasn't doping? Wow, was I naive.

I found out just how naive I was about 9 months ago. I find myself continually asking myself how could this have all been possible, such a fraud. I have thought about the Lance Armstrong story and thought it brings some perspective about how a person could be such a hugh success, do many great things, and still be a fraud. Lance Armstrong destroyed many people, even close friends, along the way. Nobody was going to stop him from having his perfect story.

I think Lance and Joseph had many things in common.

Joseph Smith won as many Tour de France's as Lance and had twice the balls.

I guess I'll "come back" (for a moment) to comment on this. I never had a "dog in this fight". I always knew Armstrong was lying, it seemed easy to see and now that he is "out" no one can argue that anymore. He is like Joseph Smith, you're right. He can lie with ease and gusto. He intimidated others and people were scared to go up against him. Even now, when he had no cards left to play, he is still lying and trying to manipulate things to his advantage. I'm not a psychologist so I can't say what disorder this is, but it is a big one, and obvious to people who CHOOSE not to follow him. To those who liked him, for whatever reason, it was EASY to follow him.

He really is a good example of what Joseph Smith would "look" like if he were around today.

I believe in reincarnation, maybe there's a link here lol

that lazy fucking POS pervert Joe Smith would work pretty hard at LYING and / or he'd work on a teen girl pretty hard, but all the other claims of Joe Working hard are pure fantasy / LDS BS.

Even as greedy as Joe was, he'd never have stood up to the physical rigors of international bicycle racing competition.


this video does not delve into the fact that Joe was so lazy that writing actually means ripping off other authors as in Joe's case with the BOM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm0Fsi2H3Fo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2013 06:21AM by lucky.

When people say that the persecution just proves Smith is a true prophet, Armstrong is certainly a good example to bring up, along with Warren Jeffs and Tiger Woods, to prove the opposite.

Four peas in a pod.

Yes there are some really good parallels. We even saw someone bear their testimony of Lance here on this forum 2 days before the episode with Oprah aired.

Now here's an interesting question:

How do their motives for creating LiveStrong & Mormonism compare?

I personally believe that Armstrong created LiveStrong truly with good intentions (at least primarily). I also think LiveStrong has been a huge force for good. In fact I suspect Lance partially created LiveStrong to atone for the cheating - or at least to help rationalize it. I also suspect some of Lance's rationalization included utilitarianism morality that his lying was for that greater good in that it facilitated LiveStrong's effectiveness.)

Do you think Joseph Smith had any similar feelings/thoughts about the Mormon church. Do you think he thought he was doing a good thing despite being self-serving? (From what I've read 2nd hand, it seems, that's kind of what Fawn Brodie thought?)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 11:57AM by bc.

I think it's possible that he believed every word he said. That is how sociopaths get by. Even if he was just marginally mentally ill, he could have believed every word he said and maybe that's why he was so convincing? The other option is that he knew EXACTLY what he was doing and saying the entire time. Both options are totally possible. I guess we'll never know since Oprah didn't exist back then!

There is no way he didn't know he lied about the Book of Mormon.

I think by the end he very likely believed his own lies, but at the beginning he had to be in it for the money. He probably believed the BoM was "good" and "helpful", but there is no possible way he didn't know it was a lie.

Lance's fall from grace has really hurt me. I admired him so much for his many accomplishments - the "can-do" attitude, inspiring so many people, setting up the LiveStrong Foundation - I admired it all. I guess that's what can happen when you put somebody on a pedestal.

On the other hand, even in my most TBM days, I never admired JS all that much. The fact that the church puffed his image up so much struck me as very odd - practically turning him into a semi-deity. The more I read about him, the more he struck me as someone I wouldn't like to be around. He seemed too full of himself.

So - with Lance, it still hurts. With JS, the feeling is more that my reservations were justified all along.

Lance still does not think he cheated. He thinks the rules are wrong and should not apply to him or his sport. That is just like JS, and for that matter most TBM's who have it figured out.

can we please get a picture of Lance wearing JS hair? That would help my own recovery greatly :)

Thanks for the artistic inspiration! Imma get to work on this right now.

You can't even say either of their names without a derogatory little chuckle. That's how they're most alike to me.

To me the parallels are more interesting when you think about the people believing them than the sad humans that they are.

Joseph Smith was much worse. Years ago I thought that Joseph Smith at least thought he was a prophet. But after reading what he wrote himself it is evident he knew he was a con from the very beginning. It is also much worse to mislead people and create a phony religion, to wrongfully use people for sex, to actually make people die for you. No, Joseph Smith was a thousand times worse that Lance and the others cited combined, nay a million times worse.

What was it you read that he wrote himself? Would you mind providing a link?

Similarities:

1. They both got to ride whatever they wanted and often.

2. Both denied the truth right up to the last moment then it was revealed by the media.

3. Both tried like madmen to keep the press quiet using nefarious ways to silence critics.

4. Both started schemes where people could feel good about giving away their money and became very wealthy so that they could support the lifestyle they wanted to live. (see number 1 above)

They both have a lot of people scratching their heads trying to figure out what the hell they were all about.

Think of how many more tours Lance might have won had he put his head in his hat!

You guys are being totally unfair: bicycles weren't even invented when Joe Smith was around! Lance Armstrong would kick his butt.

To be fair, have them both run through the woods and jump over logs while carrying gold plates.

Now, if Lance is doped up, would it be fair for Joseph Smith to load up on magic mushrooms?

Ha!

That clinches it. Joe could run full speed and swing a pillow case full of gold weighing over 200 pounds at the bad guys. He was like a gansta on crack whoopin their asses.

Joe makes Lance look like a cry baby...

Reading about him in Under the Banner of Heaven, I was continually reminded of the monstrous leeching dirtbag professional loser who nearly ruined me. Like that guy, JS was all about avoiding work and getting others to support him.

Lance and Joseph are both psychopaths fully aware of what they are doing. I thought it was very interesting that once Lance got exposed he decided to come forward to confess and give a version of events where he still attempts to control the perceptions people will have. On 60 minutes the other night, it was clearly shown that he lied on Oprah about not doping in 2009 and 2011 and about not the drug testing agencies. So even his confession is intended to control the perceptions we have of him.

This is what Joseph Smith did. He received revelations each time he wanted to control what others perceived about his behavior or his intentions.

Joseph hurt people worse because he had more power and lived in a time when he could rise up as a prophet. But Lance has the same personality as do all tyrrants. If he had been born in a country where he could rise up to be a political leader or religious leader he might have gone that route too. His incredible ability to crush others for not supporting his lies shows his true character. In another country and another time, he would have executed people. He's a true psychopath.

I always say it's like there are two guys--one who puts a lot of effort into being a great guy and may appear successful, and another who talks about being a great guy but really doesn't care if everyone knows he's biggest loser ever to walk the earth--out there lying up a storm, screwing anything that moves, and making everyone around them miserable. Lance is more the first guy; Joseph, the second. We only don't know (yet) about Lance on the screwing part.