I'm an exmo in my early 20's. I don't know if this is just my experience or not, but all of my TBM female friends from my youth are married now and about 7 of these women have been cheated on by their TBM RM husbands within the first year or they've cheated themselves. Two of them are pregnant with their husband's baby when it has happened.
Its like... they get married to the first RM they can get their hands on so they can have sex... and then they throw the sanctity of marriage right out the window.
I know a lot of people here have probably been victim of cheating so its a touchy subject, and I hope this thread doesn't become the usual exmo bashing and ranting that it seems to become now days, but am I the only one out there with this experience?
We need to teach these Mormon kids as soon as they get their high school diploma, leave home and go their own way. Don't go on a mission, don't marry an RM. Preferably marry a non-Mormon when the time is right.
This is what the church leaders fear most. Their big tools are missions and temple marriage. Flank those programs and the church would be on the skids in a generation.
I overheard this line many, many times, usually from parents concerned about their feisty or noncompliant or somewhat-sexual teenage son.
As a member, I criticized this line because it showed a parent's wish to just hand his ass over to The Church to do what the parent couldn't do for him.
Now I realize that no one brainwashes like to pros in Provo.
Without my knowledge, my TBM ex-husband began cheating on me the second year of our marriage, and this continued until he left me for one of his women. I did not know about any of this until after we were divorced, and I went back and interrogated key people. At one point in our marriage, I asked him why he married me, and he said, "You were the prettiest Mormon who would have me."
This cheating thing is far worse in my son's generation--maybe because his Utah Mormon friends got married younger than my California Mormon friends did. Yes, the women seem to cheat as much as the men do.
I would like to know WHY this is. Is it Narcissim? Many of the cheaters seem to be extremely vain and selfish. Is it disrespect for the sanctity of marriage? That whole temple marriage ceremony is just silly and made-up. Are most Mormons intrinsically dishonest? My ex was very good at lying. I was taught to trust and honor my husband, and look where it got me.
n the BoM (and FP stmnts) that adultery is the ONLY justification for divorce... BUT: tscc will back up a lying spouse (DW#1) WHO NEVER BOTHERED TO CLAIM "A"!...All b/c I was questioning/doubting...!
TSCC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT 'DOCTRINE', IT CARES ABT ITSELF, MAINTAINING A CORE OF 'BELIEVERS'.
Remember, after marriage the couple gets their own place, it's probably the 1st time in their lives they have been out from under the parents. Now for the first time in their lives they can be themselves and they want to have some fun. Do they feel loyal to decisions that have been made for them or they were pressured into? Is it really that surprising that this is what happens?
Just one more example of how sick religion makes people.
People are not allowed to be themselves, they are put into the position of having to live the standards and rules religion has put upon them, they are taught that what they want or prefer is bad so they deny personal preferences, and then when it all comes out sideways everyone is surprised and judgmental.
Maybe if they could marry someone outside the cult, or if they didn’t have to wait until marriage to have sex or it wasn’t expected of them to get married and procreate and maybe just maybe if they were allowed to experience life, dating and relationships in a natural way they would mature in healthy ways, they would be in a healthy marriage they wanted to be in instead of running around cheating and hiding the fact that religion isn’t really working for them. They would get a divorce, dump the religion and stop pretending to be something they’re not!
I don't think this really is different from mainstream America, but I do think theres a chance its not as common.
Most people have the chance to sow their "wild oats" before setting down. Mormons... open the door to their wild oats before they even know who they are or who they want to be with.
And I have to agree with "they don't want me back"'s point about the hype about getting the virgin cherry to the temple. I also know several TBM's who have gotten divorced, and slept with their next spouse before marriage and still remained in the church. After you have sex, it doesn't really feel like its that big of a deal.
What would the average age at which Mormons get married? 20/21/22 perhaps.
Who knows what kind of person they are, let alone what kind of person they want to spend the rest of their life with, at that kind of age.
An interesting stat, if it could be found, would be the comparison between divorce rates of people marrying below 25 and those over 25. Also of interest would be to compare Mormon divorce rates with those of same sex marriages.
Marriage infidelity is a problem. Not just for mormons.
Marriage sets up a condition that just isn't really workable for a large majority. In the US, divorce rates for first marriages is around 45%. Second marriages divorce at greater than 60%, and so on.
Of those that remain married, less than half are happy in their marriage more often than they are unhappy.
That means of all that marry, not even 25% are happy in it.
Marriage is the problem. Cheating is actually the patch/bandaid.
Virgin sex is rubbish. if both parties are virgins the sex is liable to be doubly rubbish.
It's a common problem with religious marriages.... I am not claiming that it's got to remain like that after the initial discomfiture.
but mormons have special problems. men will have been told that masturbation is wrong. men may have a priesthood authority fixation. women are expected to be getting pregnant before the honeymoon is finished. the church will still be dragging both parties apart for callings 3 nights a week.
The problem is not marriage or infidelity...it is people. There are people who cheat, regardless of how happy or unhappy they are. They cheat because they feel they can. It hurts just the same to have a married spouse, or a long time live-in cheat on you. Cheating is cheating. There are others that cheat for different reasons, unhappiness, boredom, neglect, you name it. I don't believe it makes any difference whether they are married or not, you can still feel unhappiness, boredom, neglect in a relationship outside of marriage. People like to say marriage does not work because 1st timers get divorced at a 45% rate? What about live-ins? Just because there was no divorce? They still leave, cheat, at what I believe is the same rate, ie: My brother has been divorced 2 times in 20 years. My sister has had 3 live-ins in that same time period. What is the difference? She has terminated her relationships at the same (or worse) rate than my brother's. Marriage is not fun all the time, because there are children, demands of work, extended family responsibilities. But so what? Things do get better if you are together in it. My father is now a widower (his wife died of cancer about 1 year ago), and he has a hard time being alone. If marriage is not for people, neither is staying alone all the time. Some will disagree, but I think when you are older, you do want someone there for you. Be it marriage or not, but certainly one does not work better than the other, and to say marriage does not work, is to imply that live-in does.
topojoejoe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The problem is not marriage or infidelity...it is > people. There are people who cheat, regardless of > how happy or unhappy they are. ... > Be it marriage or not, but > certainly one does not work better than the other, > and to say marriage does not work, is to imply > that live-in does.
Agreed. The point is that forced monogamy under the guise of marriage or live-in is not workable for a large portion of humans. Men are particularly not suited for it because of evolutionary pressures on spreading their genes to as many women as possible. Expecting a man to overcome that comes at a cost. Women who don't understand that cost are entering a relationship with their eyes closed.
This is somewhat related to the Oedipus complex in men. Their immaturity has them alternately objectifying women and treating them as sex objects, but at the same time seeking the perfect woman with whom to have the perfect orgasm. It doesn't exist. But they keep looking for it.
These guys probably have huge stashes of porn on their computers, too. This leads the bishop to think that porn causes infidelity. Actually, it kinda goes along with it in some cases. They're always looking for the perfect woman, the perfect pose, the perfect position, the perfect angle.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of incredible women out there and a mature man can be very happy if he lets go of childish notions. But growing up is extremely difficult.
I've actually seen the same thing happen to women. They keep looking for the perfect guy. They claim to have high standards, but they actually have impossible standards that no man can live up to - at least for very long.
Both men and women of this type jump from relationship to relationship in search of the perfect partner. They quickly become dissatisfied and leave, blaming the other person. Nobody can live up to the childish ideals they have, which are based off of impossible expectations that most of us stop believing when we find out our parents are only human.
These perfection-seekers, however, have not given up that illusion yet.
> I've actually seen the same thing happen to women. > They keep looking for the perfect guy.
This reminds me of a set of jokes:
A brand new department store has just opened that sells husbands.
When women go to choose a husband, they have to follow the following instructions:-
You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are 6 floors and the value of the products increase as you go up. You may choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to go to the next floor, but you CANNOT go back down except to exit the building.
A woman goes into the store. When she gets to the 1st floor a sign on the door reads: Floor 1: These men have jobs. She thinks, "I can do better than that" and keeps going up. The 2nd floor sign reads: Floor 2: These men have jobs and love kids. But she goes up another floor. The 3rd floor sign reads: Floor 3: These men have jobs, love kids and are extremely good looking. "Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going. She goes to the 4th floor and the sign reads: Floor 4: These men have jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking and help with the housework. "Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!" Still, she goes to the 5th floor and the sign reads: Floor 5: These men have jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking, help with the housework and have a strong romantic streak.
She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the 6th floor and the sign reads: Floor 6: You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.
To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner opens a Wives store just across the street. The 1st first floor has wives that love sex. The 2nd floor has wives that love sex and beer. The 3rd,4th, 5th and 6th floors have never been visited.
This happened to my sister last year. She got married and before the one year mark even happened, they were planning the divorce. They rushed it because they wanted to "do the deed." They are deluding themselves if they say that's not the main reason. Then once they were married, he could have cared less about her. Starting skipping class and work to go be with some other girl. I'm personally glad that she's not with that uptight controlling prick anymore. Too bad she wouldn't listen to sense beforehand.
Raised in a cult where the first five head honchos boned every female who came their way, using the pretext that an angel with a flaming sword commanded it? (please, spare me the over-obvious adolescent-style symbolism THERE...)
Slutty & promiscuous behavior has been part and parcel of Mormonism from yea, verily, the very get-go. So if hypocritical Mormons (what other kind are there?) are bringing forward that behavior into the 21st century, is that really such a surprise? Really? Really?
The problem is that kids are taught they need to marry young and have families, but they're just not ready for it. So, after awhile, they sow the wild oats they never got the chance for earlier.
TSCC is to blame for encouraging kids to marry and have babies so young, before they're really even adults themselves.
I would think the pressure to procreate is a huge contributing factor. When you are looking at the second anniversary and there's one in the crib and one in the oven and Wifey is puking again and there's no food in the house and the trash can is overflowing with dirty diapers and the bill collectors are burning up the telephone, a 22-year-old husband isn't just capable of coping with that. Non-Mormons would head out to a bar for a couple of beers, but the RM Hubby won't have that escape in his head.
If he's still going to school, he might find that he's got to spend a lot of time with his study partner in order to pass Statistics.
Most of them married young, but the "they never sowed their wild oats" argument doesn't hold true for most the people I know.
I think the biggest contributor to this problem is the Mormon view that there is some divine, external regulator who will keep them from, for example, cheating on their spouse. They expect that, somehow, there will be immediate and violent consequences for even thinking of doing such a thing. After they've been married for a few months they are confronted with the reality that there is no such regulator. Rather, they must regulate themselves and be responsible to themselves and their spouse for their own actions. They find they are not committed to their spouse in any meaningful sense and unprepared to deal with the normal, day-to-day challenges of maintaining their relationship.
A married guy has the official female stamp of approval, right? So it makes it easier for married men to attract women. Well, foolish women, anyway. Never mind the fact that he'll cheat means he's not really into that commitment and relationship stuff the seal of approval supposedly signifies. Never mind that cheating on his wife with you means he'll probably cheat on you too. He has that mystical Good Man aura.
I think it's more about marrying before your full identity is formed. I have issues with the concept of marrying in your 20s for life and staying with only that one partner. I had no clue who I was or what was important to me until darn near the end of my 20s. The person who was right for me at 20 was a completely different person from the guy who was right for me at 30. And that's a completely different person from the guy who is right for me at 40.
Sure, some people manage to grow up together, but I think that's actually a very small percentage. I also think that, for a majority of that small percentage, both parties aren't as blissfully happy as they make themselves out to be.
It's not that people do or don't change. I think the core essence of who you are does not change. You are who you are by the time you are about 5. But. Your attitudes, your values, your worldview, your outlook, your behaviors, your belief systems--all those things can change. It's a very rare couple who can weather all those changes together and come out the other side still completely devoted to one another. There will be people here who claim to be in that kind of relationship. Good on them, I say. Most of the rest of us, however, will not experience life that way.
A happy marriage for life is rare and probably not in the cards for most of us.
A more mature society would recognize the inherant desire of people to change things up and that people grow up and change. They would set up a child fund so that married people who reproduce would be able to draw on that when the inevitible divorce came. Divorce would not be viewed as "failure" but would be seen as normal, because people CHANGE with time.
I predict that in the future people will get married for short periods of time (5 years) per a contract with options for renewal. In addition, a child tax will be levied on all married couples to provide support for when the divorce comes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 03:42PM by elcid.
Ok all, take if from a Mormon who got married at 20. The main reason people (mormons) get married so quickly is for the sex and love but 60-80% sex and 20-40% love. Not to say they don’t love the person they are marrying at the TIME they get married but if they were having enjoyable guilt free sex they most likely wouldn’t get married at an early age.
Believe me; I have talked with a lot of friends on this and from my own experience. Don’t get me wrong, I love my wife but… She promised me we would do everything (sexual) under the moon once we got married but that is not what happened. I was lucky if we had sex once a week….as a newlywed…..in my 20’s!!!! When we did have sex it was right before bed, in bed, missionary, and I always had to take her cloths off!! Never once did she surprise me! I had several chances to cheat but never did, thought it would get better but here we are many, many years later in the same situation with kids.
Again, I love my wife and family and am not going anywhere but there was a time I really thought about cheating, not for another love but for fierce, hardcore sex! I have often felt like telling her “If I wanted something to just lay there I would have married a blow-up doll”
I have heard of the same situation but in reverse where the guy is the one who is the lame duck too. I honestly think people need to explore before getting married.