My first experience with suicide was my senior year in high school.

There was a guy I saw everyday in seminary, and everyday at school. He was what would be classified as homely. Yet, nobody seemed to notice. He was adored. He played the harmonica and the auto harp. He was friendly, and funny, and loveable. There wasn't a day that went by that he wasn't surrounded with friends and genuine adoration. He was a genuine sweet soul. I counted him as one of my best friends.

On the other side of the coin, he was a bit shy. Sometimes reclusive. I thought that was just part of his personality. It didn't bother me. I gave him his space.

He was the son of a single mother who didn't socialize with anyone. I don't know what her thoughts, feelings, or issues were. She didn't seem to have any friends.

One day, out of the blue, I was told that Keith had shot himself in the head. There was no funeral. Just an announcement. What do you do with that?

Why couldn't his friends come and show their last bit of friendship and love? It's as if we weren't allowed to think of him anymore. We weren't supposed to notice he was gone. We had no idea why he shot himself. We were left wondering.

He was a gentle soul. He was kind, caring, funny, and very gifted. That was my first experience of Mormonism shutting down any feeling or emotions for someone who died. I still wonder to this day. That was a long time ago. There will never be an answer.

How many mormon kids have died this way? I have to wonder. The parents are so shamed they can't even acknowledge the death of their own child. How sad is that? Keith had a lot of friends. We were all left wondering what drove this gentle soul that we cared about, to kill himself. What?

I also had a friend (one of my closest friends in high school) who, as a teenager, killed himself. He was LDS, but he did have a big funeral that filled the church chapel, the overflow, and the gym.

What bothers me is the role that Mormonism played in his decision to kill himself. Having determined that he would not likely be able to play football for BYU was part of it, but also, I know he had difficulties following some of the church's rules (what teenager doesn't have problems with at least a few?) and I've always wondered how that played a role in it. He was well liked and had lots of friends, but had been caught breaking some mailboxes with friends and couldn't bear the shame that he had brought down on himself. I suspect that the shame from getting in trouble with the law combined with shame from other issues and that led to him to feel that he wasn't worthy of living.

I hate the way Mormons use the word "worthy." It makes people think that they have no value because they can't follow the sexually repressed values of people who lived 150 years ago. Mormonism preaches tolerance and love for those who "stray," but then greets them with severe condemnation and sermons that tell them that their actions have lessened God's esteem of them. It is one of the main reasons that I won't remain silent about my feelings of the church.

It still hurts me to think about it and makes me wonder how much better things would have turned out for him if he hadn't been raised LDS.

When I was in high school it was Friday night fun to attack mail boxes in various ways. Kids had what they called ' captain' cars that they used to run down mail boxes. Pumpkins, and chains were often involved.

He might have been involved in that, I don't know. That never occurred to me. I've often wondered if he didn't kill himself over a girl, or maybe even another guy. I'll never know. It's like he died for nothing. If there was a reason, there were hundreds of teenagers that could have maybe learned from his death. As it is, there was nothing. NOt a word. Not even an obit. in the local paper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 11:19PM by Mia.

Suicide is the cowards way out. There I said it, and that being said. Having grown up in Utah my hole life it always stuns me when suicide rates are published in our paper and the Mo church says nothing. For those of you unaware Utah has one of the highest suicide rates in the U.S.A. When I was in high school we lost 9 classmates in 4 years. All were Mormon.

Bert, without saying anything on my opinions on the subject, this is a very insensitive place for posting that opinion. The subject is not the merits of committing suicide as an act, but Mormonism and suicide. If you want to talk about the courage of people who commit suicide, start a thread of your own to discuss it instead of insulting the memories of our friends in a place where we're trying to come to terms with something that is very difficult for us.

I'm not telling you you are wrong - I am simply telling you it is rude to bring that up in a place where people are opening up about a very sensitive topic.

+1

Well, I'll say it.

Bert's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about.

My son's best friend committed suicide at age 20 a few years ago, after several years of mental illness and anguish.

His parents were young, separated and clueless, but well-meaning. My son and other friends were aware of the problem and did all they could to convince him not to, but his pain was clearly too great - and he had to put up with it for years.

I see no cowardice in committing suicide - just pain.

Tom in Paris

I really don't appreciate this attitude. I came close to suicide a couple of times. You don't know the heartache, the absolute misery I was in to realize that I didn't know any other way to end the pain that plagued me every single goddamned day.

I had a GF from high school that waited for my on my mish, got home and she was dating this other guy, I tried to go out with her but she was always busy with other said guy. so I finally asked her best friend out one day after seeing her in church. we hit it off and eventually I married her. right after GF marries other guy.

we live our lives for a few years, then I hear that GF hubby, shoots himself in their bathroom.

To this day I tell my wife I'm glad I married her since she didn't drive me that crazy.

I absolutely think the mo church sets up a recipe for suicide. it is filled with things that cause self loathing and reinforced weekly. too bad really, really to bad

he left behind too kids and I must have left an impression on GF, since when we went to the funeral I found out the oldest boy was name in the typical mormon fashion by smashing together parents names only it was a mashup of mine and GF. one we had even talked about before the mish.

It is truly a sad thing though.

I've never had to deal directly with this, but a friend of mine has had to twice.

The last one was last year. He was talking about it with his wife and she didn't mean to be rude or anything, but she pointed out that "God will not give you anything you can't handle" was BS. He paused, thought & then agreed.

The truth is, people get handed more than they can deal with all of the time.

That little ditty about God just isn't true. I've known several people who've taken their own lives. Usually it has more to do with mental illness, or a breakdown of some kind. Hopelessness feeds suicide. Mind numbing, soul breaking hopelessness that most can't even imagine.

"Mind numbing, soul breaking hopelessness."

Trying to make TSCC work in my life gave me many feelings of hopelessness. Since leaving, I may still get anxious or down about things, but I don't have the profound sense of hopelessness that made me entertain suicidal thoughts. I now have hope that, despite how much mormonism f***ed me up, I can move on to live a fulfilling life.

A religion that brings people to such a place of hopelessness has something seriously wrong with it.

It's not the person that's broken. It's the religion.

It breaks my heart at how many people, even if they don't come close to suicide, just don't feel good enough at anything. I was never as crafty, or as consistent at prayers, journals, scripture study, getting my kids to church pressed and dressed, and in the right clothes, keeping the house like a magazine, getting my kids to behave, being organized. There are just so many damn things to fail at, and so many other people who are better than you at all of them.

Unfortunately, that's a very common complaint even outside the Mormon Church. I've lived outside Utah for 30 years now, always in communities where Mormons are rare. Still, I hear often from friends and neighbors that they are discouraged, and many are depressed, because they see others with better houses, better jobs, better clothes, better health, better education, better spouses, better yards, better cars, better children, and most of all, more money. I think most Americans, Mormon or not, would echo what you said: There are just so many damn things to fail at, and so many other people who are better than you at all of them.

Hence my life motto:

Relax! Nothing is as it seems.

Maybe it does exist outside mo-ism. I haven't been exposed to enough outside that circle to know. It sure doesn't seem like it. We live in an area with plenty of Mormons, but way more non. None of my non-Mormon group of friends seem to be on the pills that my Mormon friends are.

I don't know all that much either. But it seems to be rough all over. People talk about Mormons taking antidepressants. I remember going to a business meeting several years ago. There were five or six of us in the room. All attractive (except for me), high-powered, successful people. No Mormons. We were taking a break from business and the talk turned to other things. Before long people were talking about Prozac, Xanax, Halcyon, alcohol, pot, cocaine, therapists, shrinks, affairs, divorces--all kinds of stuff. I couldn't believe it. Having all that come out in the open was unusual, and it hasn't happened to me before or since. But it was eye-opening. I would have never thought those people felt so bad about their lives that they needed to go to those lengths. Indeed, nothing is as it seems.

Was it a high powered business meeting? Many execs essentially give up their whole lives for their jobs. An unbalanced life doesn't lend itself to happiness.

We were all mid-level business people and lawyers. Not CEOs or anything like that, but successful people who seemed to have their lives all put together. Though I did not know everyone there well, I knew plenty of other people who did seem to give up their whole lives for their jobs, and I did not think any of the people in the meeting were that way. In fact, I had worked with all of them before and was quite shocked to find that my impression of them was so far off from reality.

Middle management is the most stressed group in the US. And they are more prone to depression and high risk behaviors as coping mechanisms.

That's very interesting. I don't think any (with rare exceptions) of sithlord's colleagues are like that. He's pretty high up in the nerd world, working with brainy people. His company tries to focus on a good home/work balance. Those who really want to rise in the management chain choose to work 80+ hours/week, but sithlord has never done that in the 16 years he's been there.

13 more years is what I have to make. 13 yrs and the kids are grown, money is in the bank, and I am no longer needed. When that day comes, I will be Keith, and balance will be restored.

This is scary. You are not about money. If that's all you think you are good for, you really should seek help. Find something fabulous to enjoy, and enjoy the hell out of it!

I knew a guy who killed himself. He was an all star basketball player, attractive, quiet, sensitive, popular, but most of all very considerate of others, all others.

Even his MORmON parents said he had never been the same after going on an LDS mission. But, of course, as MORmONS they would not take it any further to actually make the connection of the MORmON cult's role in the suicide of their son.

My friend who was a bishop at the time said: it was like he could not forgive himself, (not that he was guilty of any big sin), it was like he did not understand the atonement ( as if any MORmON does !!!, after all by definition the (stupid) atonement is INCOMPREHENSILBE !!! ) so he ended up killing himself.

I was right on the verge of my exit from the MORmOH cult. it amazed me how all the MORmONS purposely failed to connect the dots, I wanted to say : wow do you suppose a religion
(MORmONISM) that is so anal retentive that it makes dead people get a MORmON corrected baptism could have played any role in this guy being so wound up and upset that he ended up killing himself? ( DUUUHHHHHHHH!!!)

The MORmON cult is the cause of many suicides!
Thanks for bringing it up, because those dots DO need to be connected.

My little sister left the planet voluntarily 20 years ago. It's hard for me to even write...... that she committed suicide.

After her 2nd divorce, she told me she constantly felt rejected and that she didn't measure up in most ways. I believe that this came mostly from the LD$ church, but it also came from unreasonable expectations from my parents.

RIP, China Doll.

Lost a son to suicide. Yes, the church was a factor. Wish I had a time machine...

Yeah, Bert, a couple of people made the same insensitive remark you did. Brilliant.

I put this together a few years ago:

If you are a non-LDS or "less-active" LDS, your suicide risk is greater than average and greater than the risk for non-LDS males in the surrounding states. My take is Mormonism in Utah benefits those who are active and detrimental to the rest of the population, especially less-active Mormon male youth.

The explanation you hear out of Utah for its suicide rate is that the entire region has an elevated rate. True. However, Utah has an even higher rate than the surrounding states. That isn't mentioned. I pulled the suicide rates from a BYU-sponsored study that is cited by BYU to show activity in the Mormon Church reduces suicide risk. What BYU doesn't bother to mention is that the same study shows non-LDS and less-active LDS in Utah are at increased risk.


Suicide Rates of the Mountain West Compared to Utah from 1991-1995

Males 15-19
Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 15-19 Mountain States (excluding Utah) 1991-1995
*Figures obtained through CDC WISQARS
Arizona 28.22
Colorado 27.00
Idaho 26.03
Montana 40.29
Nevada 26.64
New Mexico 35.12
Wyoming 48.35
Total 231.65
Average 33.09

Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 15-19 Utah 1991-1995
*Figures obtained from “Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah” Table 2, American Journal of Epidemiology Vol. 155, No. 5 : 413-419
Utah LDS Active 17.40
Utah LDS less active 57.11
Utah Nonmember 59.69

----------------------------------------------------------

Males 20-24
Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 20-24 Mountain States (excluding Utah) 1991-1995
*Figures obtained through CDC WISQARS
Arizona 41.55
Colorado 34.02
Idaho 45.63
Montana 48.61
Nevada 51.76
New Mexico 47.00
Wyoming 64.03
Total 332.6
Average 47.51

Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 20-24 Utah 1991-1995
*Figures obtained from “Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah” Table 2, American Journal of Epidemiology Vol. 155, No. 5 : 413-419
Utah LDS Active 11.19
Utah LDS less active 58.16
Utah Nonmember 70.12

---------------------------------------------------------

Males 25-29
Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 25-29 Mountain States (excluding Utah) 1991-1995
*Figures obtained through CDC WISQARS
Arizona 37.21
Colorado 33.56
Idaho 40.62
Montana 40.71
Nevada 40.18
New Mexico 46.25
Wyoming 38.70
Total 277.23
Average 39.60

Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 25-29 Utah 1991-1995
Figures obtained from “Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah” Table 2, American Journal of Epidemiology Vol. 155, No. 5 : 413-419
Utah LDS Active 8.58
Utah LDS less active 65.55
Utah Nonmember 39.14

----------------------------------------------------------

Males 30-34
Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 30-34 Mountain States (excluding Utah) 1991-1995
*Figures obtained through CDC WISQARS
Arizona 36.34
Colorado 30.05
Idaho 34.28
Montana 39.31
Nevada 41.83
New Mexico 37.81
Wyoming 49.87
Total 269.49
Average 38.50

Suicides per 100, 000 Males Ages 30-34 Utah 1991-1995
Figures obtained from “Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah” Table 2, American Journal of Epidemiology Vol. 155, No. 5 : 413-419
Utah LDS Active 10.85
Utah LDS less active 60.56
Utah Nonmember 42.63

Your math leaves something to be desired. First, the average rate in a region must be balanced for the population differences. Second, all of the mountain west has rates of mormonism above the norm. The rate in Connecticut is far lower.

The rates must also be adjusted for comparison on the basis of ethnicity. Certain populations have higher rates of alcoholism which relates to a genetic increase. Depression is also significantly reduced by coffee consumption but, for mormons, this leads to increased feelings of guilt. Another matter relates to mormon theology which places such emphasis on works and being worthy.

One last thing to consider is how the BYU study decided who belonged to which group - active, less active, and nonmo. I suspect there was a tendency to put fewer in the active because, after all, if a person kills himself he must be having a problem with TSCC. In other words, the influence of activity is questionable. Moromonism, by its theology, shunning those who are different, and measuring worthiness and assessing undue guilt, is a major cause of depression and suicide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2013 07:57AM by rhgc.

To those of you who have lost a loved one through suicide, I'm so sorry.

Mia, people mourn in different ways. Some families don't feel up to having a funeral or a memorial service, or they want to hold a private (immediate family only) burial. It makes it very hard on friends of a deceased teenager when that's the case, however.

I imagine that life must have been very hard on your friend's mom. As a single mother, she may well have felt marginalized by the LDS church.