We have examined the entire breadth of the earth, documented history over several millennia, and charted the structure of the universe, and in all of this searching we have not found one piece of concrete evidence suggesting that a supernatural being has shaped or disturbed our natural world.

This means that if there is a god, it is either unaware of our existence or has no intention of intervening. Either way, it is of no concern to us. We are on our own, our lives will end at death, and the best we can do is to enjoy the journey and leave the world a better place.

Right. Whether or not you believe in a god has no effect on how well you live. Only believers will be impressed with your belief.

To me, that makes God a non-starter, since I don't like to associate with religious nuts.

So all theists are religious nuts? That would be almost everyone on earth Methinks you are painting with a pretty broad brush.

The truth hurts, I guess.

I have to agree with DB. It doesn't mean that these nuts aren't our family, friends, etc. But it doesn't bely their nuttiness, either.

Wow, just wow. We are talking about at least 90 percent of the human race. And you guys wonder why I find some of you atheists to be arrogant. BTW, there are atheists out there who are not critical thinkers in any sense of the word. Just read some of the posts here.

90%? That may be right.

Humans in general are not all that bright. That includes human atheists. The more I observe humans the more I lower my expectations.

Each person born has to start from scratch with little knowledge. It saves a lot of ATP to just believe in God and be done with it.

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. Almond Joy's got nuts, Mounds don't.

Religion is the nut.

I don't mind if someone is religious if they don't abuse people, if they don't shun, if they don't impose harsh judgment based on unsubstantiated ideas about what god wants, if they don't relentlessly try to force me to live their ideals.

Seems the best antidote to religion is religion. Keep these nuts at each others throat so I can slink off and enjoy life. If and when I feel like there is a good energy that I can tap into, I do. No funny hats, rules for others to live by.

I think 90% and I think the world is sick. Maybe we'll get the monkey off our back someday and just encourage each other on this journey.

Yeah, thats pretty much how I see "god." If he/she/it exists, I see no evidence that it has anything to do with me, so why should I have anything to do with it? I'll live my life the way I feel is best and it can keep doing whatever it is that it does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 10:34PM by nickname.

Some of you are doing a good job of proving my point about arrogance.No theist has anything over the arrogant atheists around here. They know they are right and you know you are right and neither of you are tolerant of other views. Just saying.BTW, before all the atheists get upset, I am not talking about all of you.I.Don't mind if someone is atheist as long as they don't abuse and don't shun.It does work both ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 10:37PM by bona dea.

Wait! "No theist has anything over the arrogant atheists around here" Really? When was the last time one of us came knocking on your door telling you your beliefs are all wrong and you need to think like us instead?

There's plenty of room for humility on all sides of this argument. The most arrogant theists and atheists are typically those who do not fully grasp the arguments contrary to their position or the weaknesses of their own.

Yup, my point exactly

If someone wants to claim there is a god, it is up to them to present evidence in support of the claim. If they have no evidence, I, and anyone else, has no reason to believe the claim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 10:50PM by MJ.

it's not like 90% of the world has never been wrong about anything before...

The point is not the existence of God. I am talking about people being arrogant, condescending know it all's.Some posters seem to have missed that.

bona dea, to what end? Do you want to mock atheists? Is that in the service of god belief?

I said that religious people are nuts. They are by my standards. I have never met a religious person who understood the concept of causality. Never.

Maybe you need to meet more religious people.BTW, I made it clear that I am not talking about all atheists and I am also not particularly religious although I think there is probably some sort of higher power.I am not the one saying that anyone believing in any kind of god is nuts. That is you. I am also not saying that all atheists are nuts or arrogant. I am speaking to one statement by one atheist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 11:34PM by bona dea.

Thanks for the response. I find it impossible to communicate with people who believe in spirits and ghosts. The more fiercely they believe, the nuttier them.

Don, my wife believes in ghosts. The refrigerator ice maker ghost and such. I play along so I don't have to get out of bed and investigate mysterious noises.

Other than when I'm trying to sleep, I too have no use for ghosts.

My wife and I inherited a fridge from her parents. When you close the fridge door, there's a whistling sound. My wife said she thought it was her dead father's ghost making the noise.

Too funny. I'm not alone.

Sounds like more of an agnostic position to me, anyway.

agnostic would indicate someone who thinks a god might be interacting with our existence, this creed denies that, so we could call this functional atheism, and yes, we don't need a creed, but this one is pleasing to me and I thought it might be the same for someone else

There is a not so fine line between a lack of belief and a lack of knowledge.

For what its worth, does it really matter if we believe in a god or not? ...IMHO, Only if we impose this belief on someone else. I'll let everyone else here define what it means to impose.

We will all have our opinions, and they are really nothing ever more than that...OPINIONS. Anyone who tells you they know there is or isn't a god is lying to you. No one knows. Every open and honest discussion about this topic should be predicated with this basic truth.

We all have different life experiences. We all have different levels of education. And we all have innumerable social interactions and influences which accumulate over our life and lead to a specific conclusion about God.

Some people believe. Fine. Some people don't. Fine again. Some people admit they don't know. Even better. The vast majority of my life I believed. Now I don't. Life is a journey and as long as we respect each others beliefs everyone can get along. When you start saying you "KNOW" either way, you lost my interest in discussing it further. Yes, I am leaning heavily towards not believing, but I will be the first one to say I certainly couldn't prove it.

Yes. It does matter. For me at least, figuring out whether or not there was a god was a crucial part of my recovery from Mormonism. And listening to other people, on this board and elsewhere, share there beliefs and the reasoning behind those beliefs has helped me get to the point I am now.

Did anyone "convince" me of anything, not really. But seeing their point of view, and the reasoning behind it, did help me understand both sides better, focus my own research, and eventually come to my own conclusions.

A better way to have phrased my first question should have been whether it matters that *others* believe in god or not. I am all for asking questions and coming to our own conclusions. My bigger issue was the statement that we should not impose/force our beliefs on others. Asking for advice, sharing what one thinks to be true, and sharing evidence is all good. No objections. Just don't condescend and patronize me with either perspective. Not that anyone is doing that in this thread or on this board. I say that as a general statement.

What you said !!

For what it's worth, I don't see any claim about the nutness (or not) of theists in the OP...

Personally I'm an atheist (by common/conventional religious definition of god). Lance Armstrong is also an atheist and that (and perhaps the love for cycling) is just about the only things I have in common with him. Atheism is just a lack of belief in the existence of 'god'. It is not a religion or a belief system... so I don't understand why there should be any atheism creed. You know what I mean?

The comment was not the OP' s

grinding your same old boring axe, as if we weren't all *beyond aware* that you think some atheists are arrogant, condescending know-it-alls.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2013 03:10AM by munchybotaz.

If you find it so boring,skip it.You never miss a chance to throw digs at me and it is really getting old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2013 03:17AM by bona dea.

and sometimes even pass them up on purpose.