I decided not to post this as anon because, although it is deeply personal and painful, I don't want to hide in shame behind an anonymous handle over it.

I grew up in the 40th ward in Mesa Arizona. The ward was very small but at the time it felt close-knit and like my family. With parental encouragement I played with only the other children in the ward, extra-curricular activities centered around ward sports, plays and talent contests. Even my parents made a point to spend great amounts of time at ward member's homes establishing friendships with them, some which have lasted to this day despite us moving out of state some years later.

One weekend when I was 8 years old my father planned a day trip to the lake. He invited the two teenage boys from across the street, also ward members. We loaded up the van, hitched the boat and my brother, the two boys and myself were on our way. Sitting in the back seat next to the older of the two I found myself curious about his walkman. He offered to let me listen to it. I put the walkman on and he positioned the tape player on my lap for me, then proceeded to rub my crotch. I did not know how to react to an older boy's obviously inappropriate sexual advances having never been coached by anyone about how to stop it. This thing was only supposed to happen with strangers. I knew this boy. I had spent time with him at his house and he was always very nice to me. I repositioned the walkman lower down my legs thinking I was mistaken about what he was trying to do. He continued rubbing my crotch. I suddenly realized I was trapped in the back of this van with a boy who was molesting me. My father was chatting with his brother in the front seat and I had no clue how to stop what was happening. Eventually I climbed behind the seats and fell asleep with a thick blanket over myself.

I was ashamed and blamed myself for what happened. I tried very hard to hold it in so my parents wouldn't find out I was no longer pure. After two weeks I broke down crying and confessed what happened to my mother. She was horrified, comforted me and told me it was going to be ok because she was going to talk to the bishop. I nodded my 8 year old head in agreement to her plan. The bishop lived next door. We knew their family and they were good people. He would take care of this.

The bishop did absolutely nothing. Police were not called. The incident was never brought up again. It was like it never happened. The boy continued passing sacrament in church every week. If the bishop even talked to him there were no repercussions at all. Shortly after that we moved into a larger home several blocks away (same ward) and I was no longer in proximity to remain the target of his abuse. I grew up with this memory and even questioned if it was real.

Years later my mother vacationed to Mesa and visited friends from her old 40th ward. One woman decided to bring her up to date on all the ward gossip and told her how our former neighbor's son was going through a very nasty divorce, and how horrible his wife is because she had fabricated this story about how he had molested their children because she was trying to get custody. All three children were too young to confirm they were abused. My mother told her what he did to me and that the accusations were probably true. My mother's friend got very upset then and told my mother how NO ONE believed his wife. Even her own family had turned against her in this entire process.

WHY did she not call the police when I was 8? What is it about the TBM mentality that makes people call the bishop instead? To me he was just a neighborhood kid and what happened had a very deep impact on me. I cannot imagine the impact his abuse had on his own children. When my mother told me about her conversation I asked her why she didn't call the police when it happened. She really couldn't answer me. She just said calling the bishop seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

Now she asks why I'd want to resign. Go figure.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2011 01:01PM by vhainya.

That's terrible! If this happened to my own child I would call the police, report him as a sex offender(as much as a teenager can be reported), and resign immediately. This is your own child!

Unfortunately my mother is a 6th generation member and staunch supporter of the church. This bizarre mentality is deeply ingrained and when I bring up specific issues she insists it's not true, the church wouldn't do that, or that I'm just being 'anti.'

The problem with an incident like this is it is easy to compartmentalize because it's a problem with individuals and not the church as a whole. She now blames herself for not taking appropriate action and doesn't see it as a result of her brainwashing within the church.

They didn't have the sex offender registry back then. IF I even had enough evidence to even press charges he would have gotten a misdemeanor at the most. His records would have been sealed when he turned 18. The only difference is it would have created rumors about him and people would have remembered this past incident when his wife came forward about the abuse of their children. She would have found more support in leaving him when people remembered "this neighbor girl he molested" years prior and there was a pattern to his behavior. My own family would have been villainized and shunned by the ward, essentially suffering the same accusations his wife did when she became the first to come forward over what happened. The ward would have supported his family and my parents would have lost all their friends over it.

My mother made the wrong decision on how to handle it, but social pressures are real and she wasn't a strong person. She was very young (younger than I am now) and had almost no life experience. The ward was her family and it was easier to put her head down than to cause any rift with the church or the members because she'd lose what she felt was her only emotional support system.

I hated her for a very long time over this incident. I hated her even more when I found out about how my abuser went on to abuse his own children. I have dwelt on the what-ifs. And like you, Anon123 I would have taken a stand with total outrage if something like this happened to my own child. But my mother isn't me, she's not perfect, and I've learned to understand her in a way that I've been able to make peace with who she is. Her actions were not out of malice toward me. She grew up sheltered in a small town, went to BYU, and had never considered this could happen to her or her family or what she would do if it did. She handled it the best she knew how, has many regrets over how she handled it, and knowing that I can't hate her any more over it. The only person I can hate now is this boy who abused me and abused the trust of the people around him.

I think this is the very crux of the situation. Most ingrained members think that these are isolated instances and the response is always the same by the priesthood leaders. Councel forgiveness blah blah blah and do nothing.

However, after reading boards like this, and with my little sister's own experience, this kind of shit happens ALL the TIME.

And a lot of members think the same thing. "It's just one case, it's not that big of a deal. The church would do something strong about it, if it were a big deal."

Well, guess what. No they don't, and it is a big deal.

Glad you didn't do this as anon, vhainya, and I'm sorry about the experience.

I am sorry this happened to you. Had it happened to me my mother would have done the exact same thing as yours. Although she probably would have thought I made it up as he was a priesthood holding young man.

Thank you.

I'm so sorry as well!!! It isn't just a Mormon thing, but
other religions do that as well or cops cover up for their own, as do families. Such attacks, especially on children HAVE to be nipped in the bud. This story just provesthat.
Arrrghhh!!

I am so sorry to hear about this Vhainya. I think it is far more widespread than anyone wants to admit. I don't know if it is in the rest of the world, because the Mormon world is the only one I grew up in, but it is all over. Mormon children from big families seem to be more vulnerable because they are not able to be supervised as closely. Also, I think some Mormon people are far too trusting of other Mormons and don't think that any of God's people could be capable of some of the monstrosities that are committed. This is just terrible.

In the Mormon mind, only the Lord's anointed can offer 'inspired' solutions. The police aren't 'inspired', they're only the police. The police can only deal with such nonsense as facts and evidence, not inspiration.

Unfortunately, the local orthodontist/bishop doesn't have any 'inspiration' either. He's got nothing and that's what you get from him. But Mormons think they know better.

My mother, who was raised strictly Catholic, had a similar thing happen to her, and her mother never even said a word about it. She just acted like it never happened.

I don't think my Mom ever forgave her Mom for that either.

RJ, Yup, yup and yup. Mormons are very good at compartmentalizing. If it's not something they can blame themselves for they can blame the locals for just being men. My mother has extended this to the first presidency even. It gets her in trouble with the local church leaders but protects her faith that the church is twoo.

Piper, I agree it is an overarching problem with how the system functions. Bishops are now given a hotline to call instead of counseling members to contact the authorities and supporting them through it. The attitude coming down of telling people to first utilize internal resources protects the perpetrators.

Otremer, My mother says she hates authority figures yet loves the church. She probably did feel the bishop's counsel was inspired at the time. The cog dis continues to amaze me.

May I ask how old you are? I don't excuse what you mother did or what the church did--but nobody listened much years ago.

My dad was furious some 45 years ago when the neighbor molested my sister. The family moved not long afterwards, but my dad was no small man and most people feared him. If he could have, he would have killed the boy who molested my sister, but going to police? Nobody did back then.

My older sister's 3 children were molested by the neighbor babysitter (a girl). She went to the bishop and he told her to let him handle it. The mother of the molester (obviously she was being molested most likely at home with 10 kids under age 11 and living in a 2-room mobile home)--told my sister that she had fasted about it and that my sister's kids (ages 2, 4, and 5) had instigated the abuse.

I just found out recently that my son was molested. I have 2 CHILDREN and I was still with my ex then. My son said, "If there was ever a mother who protected her kids, it was you--but there was nothing you could have done." He is 25 and I found out about it when he was 23.

Being a mormon, you really do want to believe in the leaders. Obviously, I trusted them.

I'm really sorry for what you went through. I already hate the LDS leaders. The more I hear--the more shocked I am.

Oh--I also knew a family of girls who were all molested and their father molested all the grandkids, too. One of the daughters went to the bishop back in the 1970s and hte bishop said that her dad was too nice a man--that there was no way this was going on. Finally, 25 years later, a bishop believed one of the granddaughters.

They like trying to go back to those simpler times.

I'm probably 50 years older than you. We had a great uncle who liked to grope the little girls. In my family we all knew to keep as far away from him as possible, but some of my cousins weren't so lucky. He did it almost in front of everyone, a hand sneaking around you and under your arm to your breast.

My sisters and I finally asked our parents decades later why that was tolerated, since they must have known. They were both very sheepish. No one knew what to do, no one ever spoke of it in their generation.

The good old days. I suspect there was as much abuse outside the church as inside back then, but most people have embraced the brave new world where child abuse is talked about and given zero tolerance.

Mormons haven't so much, nor had your mother. I hoped she learned, but at what cost?

This thing about mormoms only going to the bishop and higher up in the church must be ingrained in the head. In my family also, my little sister was molested by my mom's husband (not our father). My mom divorced my dad partly because he left the church, and quickly (with bishop encouragement) remarried 'a worthy priesthood' leader.
This jerk used to watch my sister and I take our showers, by using a screw driver to pop open the door lock. I never could figure out why I always locked the door but when I got out of the shower it was open. Then one day I just caught his eyes in the bathroom mirror. He saw it and ran. I did not know what to do also. I was 14 or 15 at the time. My sister was 12. My younger sister whom he eventually molested was only 9. I told my mother, and she immediately went to the bishop. No one did anything. I guess they assumed since he only 'peeped' it was not a problem. I did not know how to handle it also. When he eventually molested my sister (by touching her on her pubic area during a camping trip), they again went to the bishop, then SP, then my mom eventually wrote to Monson (who was a councilor at the time, GBH was prophet). Nothing came of it. This jerk retained his Stake ward clerk calling. My mom divorced him. But no one went to the police.
I have recently gone, but my sister has not to this day. This was almost 25 years now.
By the way, I live in Canada, there is no statue of limitations on these cases.
I had a jerk on this board tell me my story was bullshit. To this jerk: I wish it was bullshit, but unfortunately my story is commom. In this god damn excuse for a church, everyone goes to the bishop, instead of the police! And in this church, nothing is done against these predators, and the children who are victims grow up not knowing what to do, and thinking they did something wrong, and filled with guilt.
So sorry about what happened to you.

Vhainya, we were taught outright in Relief Society back in the day, that the police were NOT to be involved unless something could not be handled by the bishop. If HE decided the police needed to be called, then he would make the call. You are blaming your mother for the culture of protecting child molesters. Even though I was a convert, I called the bishop as well. The priesthood is in charge of all serious matters like calling the police. We women were taught to report, that's all. This, thank goodness, has changed. But the culture of Mormonism lags. It is still considered in some circles to be shameful to bring the government into a Mormon family problem because it exposes defects to the general public, the potential convert pool.

I remember Brigham Young being quoted and I'm sure some of you historians could provide the quote. He insisted that disputes be handled by the Brethren.

Now I am completely supporting you on this. My complaints against the scout troup leader AND my husband were completely buried by Richard A. Hunter, who is now the president of the Oakland temple. Let's name names! When Hunter was my bishop he allowed my ex to go on and molest more children while advancing in the priesthood. And I was made the villain. So, yeah, sons-of-bitches will have their comeuppance just like the Catholic church does. They need to make money with their billion dollar mall and their member janitors because EVERY WEEK they are paying off a settlement on the courthouse steps. Members would FREAK if they knew their good tithing money goes to pay for continued coverage for child molesters and silence from their accusers.

It's what Jesus would do, right?

Thanks for your post. Airing out, using your own name and naming names of the guilty is how this will all stop.

I am very sorry for what happened to you. May I suggest that you find out the name of the woman who is divorcing this a-hole and give her a call. With your testimoney, even though it happened years ago, you may be able to help save her children from even more abuse.

I totally agree with this. It may not only help this woman who is going through this and her children, but help you deal with what happened to you and give you a chance to make it right.

Not that you have any reason to "make it right" that's not exactly what I mean, and you have no blame, I just don't know how to say it. But if you can help, I would take the opportunity if you can handle it.

I can't tell you how much I would have loved to help someone that had been abused by the same person who abused me.

My ex dh (he is still dear to me most of the time) was abused by his older brother who now has kids, who are now teens. He will not tell the wife, and only one other sister knows and sees no reason to worry. I pray that nothing has happened, and lately I have been trying to think how I could write a letter to her so that she could at least ask the kids. I guess I should walk the walk, eh? I got nothing to lose as far as his family, they think our divorce is my fault anyway (they don't know he is gay).

Ok, so I got distracted. I have a story related, I just don't have time to share. This sucks, and this is how they did things though you are 10 years younger and I thought they did better then. Guess not. TSCC sucks!!!

cl2, I am 32. I forgot to mention my mother did not tell my dad what happened. He would have killed the kid, which is probably why she kept it secret. When he later found out he was very upset with my mother for not telling him. He remembered the trip very well primarily because of how strange I acted, and how I developed a 102 degree fever out of nowhere forcing us to leave early.

Heresy, that is just awful your uncle did that and no one stood up to him. As much as the mormon church preaches about the evils of technology I wonder where we'd be if we didn't have programs, or even the news to watch. They raise awareness and personalize these stories so people learn how to properly react and protect each other from abuse.

Topojoejoe, I hate to think about what my mom would have NOT done if it were someone even closer to our family who had preyed on me. She wouldn't have known what to do and probably wouldn't have done anything beyond speaking to her bishop. Any jerk who minimizes someone's story of abuse by telling them it's not true is contributing to the problem of silence so many victims suffer through.

Friends, I am so ashamed to say that I too was horrified at what happened to one of our children that I went through TSCC ladder of authority...all the way up to BYU president Leigh! Eventually to Monson. Not only was the perpetrator allowed to "pass" the sacrament, he was allowed to preside over a Mexican mission (did any of you here have a MP with initials LR?) Eventually he was brought down by another family member on his wife's side. But that was so gentle, he was released as stake president of one of the richest stake in TSCC by visiting authorities and cudos for his accomplishments! We have no knowledge if he was excommunicated or even disfellowshipped!

You younger people are better informed and smarter. Always call the police yourself! It's so sad that I too was brainwashed by a wicked CULT! God. I hate the moronic Mormon Church!

Thank you for sharing what happened and how you handled it. Reading all these threads and stories I'm starting to realize people like you, and my mother are victims of their own culture. If my mother didn't care she wouldn't have talked to him at all. It takes a lot to stand up against an institution, friends, and the status quo as it is. Going to the bishop seems like the more gentle and quiet way of handling everything because people assume it will be effectively dealt with by those of authority without the public stigma of involving the police. The end result is such a betrayal of people's faith and trust it is just sickening.

Some TBMs will call the police. My TBM sister had a 3 year old daughter who told her that an older neighborhood boy touched her down there. MY sister was not sure what happened because the child wwas so young and not that verbal, but she called the police who talked to the child. She knew they couldn't do much due to the age of her daughter and the fact that it may have been innocent, but she wanted it on record in case anyone else reported something. It seems to me that is the way it should be handled unless you are talking about kids who are both very young and 'playing doctor'.My sister may have mentioned it to the bishop but she had the sense to call the police first.

There is no assumption that no TBM will call the police. The point is when a TBM goes to the bishop with a case of abuse he should counsel the victim or the victim's family to call the police, and that doesn't happen. The church tries to deal with it internally which ultimately protects the perpetrator.

vhainya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no assumption that no TBM will call the
> police. The point is when a TBM goes to the
> bishop with a case of abuse he should counsel the
> victim or the victim's family to call the police,
> and that doesn't happen. The church tries to deal
> with it internally which ultimately protects the
> perpetrator.

I get the point and agree that if the bishop is called it should be after the police are called. A good bishop might use the info to be sure that kids in the ward are not left alone with the guy so calling him could be a good idea. However, he has no legal power and this is a legal issue.Bishops need more training and protecting the church should not be their first priority.

I'm sorry, V. That's just wrong in so many ways.

Ron

Thank you Ron.

I grew up in Great Falls, Montana and there was a man in my ward that molested my older sister and all the other girls in his primary class. The girls were 7. He would invite them to go sit on his lap to help change the slides on the film strip. My sister did not come forward first but one of the other little girls did. The police were involved and and he went to court. My sister came forward after. I think he is now a sex offender. I asked my other older sister that still lives there about what ever happened to that guy. She said he is in the other stake..still holding callings and active. They should have never let one man or woman be alone with all those children. I am glad they changed the calling to two people. At least that's how it was last I checked, maybe that's just some wards that have that in place now. In that case they brought the police into play but nothing really was done. I am sorry vhainya, that would have devastated me. My sister is extremely shy and modest now but I don't know if that has to do with what she went through.

and her mother never told her father about it because she was afraid he would kill the neighbor if he found out. i've always wondered it that was a fair decision. what do you guys think? for some reason, being the loud mouth i am, i'm surprised i never told her father either.

i'm so sorry that terrible thing happened to you. did you not feel like contacting that guy's ex-wife and telling her your story? (sorry if i'm prying)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2011 06:33PM by Nick Humphrey.

Nick Humphrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> did you not feel like contacting that guy's
> ex-wife and telling her your story? (sorry if i'm
> prying)

I was 18 at the time, maybe even 17 when his ex came out with this. It was also the first time it had been brought up in 10 years and the information made me suicidally depressed. I started seeing an LDS counselor who offered me nothing but additional grief. I needed more emotional support than I had to follow through with contacting her.

Years ago, as a young teen, I was sitting at the table at a family dinner. The recent arrest of a neighbor of ours came up. I honestly can't remember what it was for, but it was sexual in nature (molestation, rape, child porn, etc.) This was a neighbor with a very good reputation and none of the men in my family could believe it. Well I could! I spoke up and told them that when I was a few years younger, he had caught me alone and had kissed me on the lips. I was shocked, but never mentioned it to anyone. Then my mom spoke up! Our supposedly upstanding neighbor had crossed the line with her as well. And the guys in our family (who otherwise are/were really great guys) STILL couldn't believe it.

I was attacked while walking across my college campus. My mom was attacked by a man and thrown to the ground while on a group hike when she was a teenager. Both of us managed to get away. We were lucky.

I think this is incredibly common. For this reason, I believe that we ALWAYS need to contact the police. If nothing else, it can give the police a heads-up about a potentially serious offender. The man who attacked me went on to attack several other women, brutally raping one of them. ALL of the women who were attacked by this man reported it, and eventually the police were able to identify him. He got 25 years! The judge was FURIOUS at him.

I also believe that all girls should receive at least a few years of martial arts training. Give young women the tools to fight back!

I was once jumped on by a known aggressive muslim guy, they said he just hated women. Well he stopped hitting me when some people came closer then just smiled at me (gag) and I went to work, contacted the police and was checked by a doctor.
Months later, a cop called me and apologized, my case had been buried under a huge pile of other cases.
I just let it go although I knew the man lived near me, but then I had met my future husband so I wasn't moving around alone that much anymore, felt safer. We both moved together after 2-3 months.

But he probably wasn't even called to the police station for an "interview" although everybody knew who he was. The cop sounded tired.

I'm glad the monster didn't have a knife. He'd probably cut my throat. I hope he hasn't killed some poor woman by now.

When I was 15 or so, I was waiting for a bus which didn't come. A guy stopped his car and called me to come closer. When I did, he showed me his erect organ. I was just shocked and told him to "go home". OMG why didn't I note his reg# and call the cops? He might have gone on to rape someone. I never told even my mom. She would probably have told me to just forget it.

I think this is incredibly common. For this reason, I believe that we ALWAYS need to contact the police. If nothing else, it can give the police a heads-up about a potentially serious offender

That is exactly why my sister called the police even though her daughter was too young to really discuss what had happened except to say that X touched her down there.She was vague on where 'down there' was or how or why the touching occured but something had happened and the guy was in their back yard for no reason and didn't make his presence known to anyone else. If anyone reported any problems in the future or had reported anything in the past, my sister's report would add evidence. Besides the police would talk to him. He could give his side of the story and at the very least, he would learn that it isn't appropriate to approach a 3 year old in her back yard when you have no reason to be there. Even if it was innocent, that is a really dumb thing to do.He would also know that people were on to him if he had done something wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2011 07:22PM by bona dea.

...I also think it should be standard operating policy in ANY church (including the Mo's) to tell a distressed member reporting such an incident to contact the police FIRST. Then, and only then, should pastoral care be offered.

The Catholics learned this lesson the hard way. If the Mormons don't take a page from their book...they too, will learn the same hard lesson.