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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 12:15AM

I'm OK with people believing wacky things as long as they don't hurt themselves, their children or anyone else. If you want to go out looking for UFO's or use harmless New Age practices or go to church for three hours on Sunday - knock yourself out. Just don't hurt anyone else while doing it.

But Mormons DO hurt people with their beliefs and Mormonism hurts members and non-members alike with their teachings. And a lot of it stems from pure pride and arrogance. Did your kid make you look bad by leaving the church? Then shun them. Are you unworthy because you aren't Mormon? Well, you can't be at your kids temple wedding. How arrogant is it to feel you have the right to judge the worthiness of a parent to attend their kids wedding? Mormons consciously or subconsciously believe in the superiority of their way of life and the need to "save" everyone who doesn't agree with them. Arrogant? I'd say.

They are so sure of themselves and the relative righteousness of their chosen way of life that they are condescending to anyone who doesn't jump on the Mormon wagon. They are too full of pride to listen to anyone else's opinion or to listen to facts and figures. They constantly brag about their beliefs, their church, the way their church does things ... all are superior to everyone and everything else and they will tell you about it. And they are so busy patting themselves on the back for how bright a light they are to the world, they don't stop long enough to notice that almost NO ONE else shares their admiration of themselves.

I'd like Mormons a lot better if they learned to play nicely with other children.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 12:18AM

Good points

A couple of thoughts:

1) Personally Mormonism would still deeply bug me because I know it hurts Mormons.

2) With Mormons I think, with many people, the pretended sureness is because deep down they are insecure in their beliefs. The reason it requires so much show and show much pretended surety is because it is built on such a house of cards.

For example, if one were really so confident would one be scared to learn more about the church? Would one be afraid to confront problems with church history and doctrine directly?

Yet, rare is the Mormon that is willing to even take a look.

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Posted by: ladell ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 01:08AM

You are right, I am not bothered by the varied religious beliefs of my friends. Nephite Barges, Mohammed, transubstantiation, the rapture..whatever, knock yourself out, I may have some firm ideas but I don't know all the answers. What complicates my otherwise laissez-faire attitude is the fact that the culture of Mormonism has hurt some of us, and that is difficult to get past.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 01:33AM

s-r arrogance is Definately part of the MoEquation, but LOTS of other changes needed to make it Close to palatable.

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Posted by: laurel ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 01:57AM

That naive arrogance is the most offensive part of the Mormon religion to me. I feel so sad for the young members and just pissed off at their parents and grandparents.

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Posted by: laurel ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 02:11AM

My 80's son had "long beautiful hair". Two neighbor boys came to tell me that long hair is bad. Their moron Dad said so. I told them to go ask their dad about Jesus's hair. They were so excited to go ask him. It really helped equalize the playing field. I didn't mean to damage their dad, but, stupid is as stupid does.

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Posted by: breedumyung ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 04:39PM

Jeezus wouldn't be allowed in most Mormon chapels

(or any other church, for that matter)

The clothes and hair would freak out the sheeple under the steeple

BY

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 05:40PM

My Jesus-hair has caused a lot of snide comments around these TBM parts.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 06:30PM

I find it amazing that mid-20th century anti-male-hair fetishes still rule so many Americans. Amazing...

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 06:56AM

I would add blind obedience. The word of wisdom -- tea and coffee are bad, sugary sodas are good. If you can't feed your family, pay tithing first. Garments (enough said). Most members don't know how to say no and participate on their terms and not the church's.

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Posted by: lucky ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 07:11AM

honestly, would plutonium bug you so much if it were not so darn toxic ????

I mean besides the superlative arrogance many MORmONS are good people if you can also look past their extreme shallowness and idiocy !!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2013 07:12AM by lucky.

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Posted by: WarriorPrincess ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 08:54AM

There are several kinds of arrogant in the church. There is the "niave arrogance" that I think stems from the cautions taught constantly of who do we dare relate to. Or, who are "good" company to keep. I mean it's the "OH NO! They drink coffee and and therefore must be a sinner!" The coffee becomes the "red flag." Like a fear that is conditioned by the repetitive lines they are fed, it's part of the culture of brainwashing that keeps one in the special group.

Then, there is another kind of arrogance in people who have done and continue to do horrible, evil things. While, still wearing the righteous "mask" of mormonism and claiming that as who they really are...still attending the temple, still claiming holy superiority over others by the "appearance" of religion. Yet, abusing, stealing, lieing their way to worthiness. These, I think are the worst. One mo-man that I grew up near, and who has done horrible things, dropped me on fb when I questioned something mormon in a status. Yes, he's married in the temple. But, so what. I know the real mo-man and the evil side of him. Who is he to judge me for the mormon facade that he expects to see kept up?

And then there's the arrogance that blows me away. You know the one? The arrogance mormons shun each other with. They have the blessings of the gospel. Therefore, they feel chosen and that they are special to God. More so than other people. It's as if they are looking for any sign of their own superiority.

For example, they may feel more deserving than their mormon neighbor who can't afford that new car. Or, they were raised on the "right" side of town. This too is seen as a sign of their more worthiness than others of their own faith. It's as if they truly believe that their wealth, or whatever it is they feel blessed with that someone else doesn't have (even if it is stolen or ill gotten gains) are signs of their betterness, and that God loves them more. I've been treated this way for years in the church, and even by people who by all standards did not have anymore than I did. But, they were somehow more deserving. This was especially so after my divorce. Suddenly, I was looked down on for yet another reason...how dare I divorce someone who cheated and abused me? My bishop told me to "go back to your husband where you belong. It's not my job to help you!"

Anyways, what's even more disturbing is that many of us have been these people in the church. Or, maybe we haven't and that's why we questioned and began to move along. I think that I could have been seen as "niave and arrogant." I hope the "arrogant" didn't apply.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 09:43AM

I'd be a lot happier if they'd just shut up about it occasionally.

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Posted by: stbleaving ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 09:49AM

Mormonism would bother me even without the arrogance because it's based on lies and systematic cover-ups. No organization can be healthy or productive when it's built on dishonesty.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 10:02AM

but more often than occasionally. I love it when my own daughter preaches to me--as though she knows something I couldn't possibly have known.

Okay, I'll go back to that religion that messed up our lives. Yep, that's a good idea.

I can say that I have been lucky in that my 2 best friends--one of them accepted that I didn't believe immediately, said she already knew. It took the other one a bit longer, but she came around. I still have 2 best friends for 30+ years.

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 10:19AM

Arrogance in ingrained deep in the Mormon psyche. It has been this way from the beginning. David Roberts in his book "Devil's Gate" writes (beginning on page 46):

"Kirtland set the pattern for the first fourteen difficult years of the LDS church's existence in the United States. Loyalists tend to paint this period as a continuous ordeal of persecution of the said by intolerant neighbors, but there is abundant evidence that the Saints themselves often provoked those neighbors with aggressive actions of their own. For one thing, the Mormon colony sometimes behaved as though it were exempt from the laws of the state in which it resided." Here he discusses the Kirtland Safety Society Bank Company debacle.

After the Saints relocated to Missouri, Roberts writes: "...And the Saints did their part to stir up trouble. The paranoia engendered by very real persecution and vilification around Palmyra and Kirtland transmuted in Far West into grandiose assertions of superiority." Roberts then discusses the formation and actions of the Danites.

"...In the middle of 1838, Missouri settlers indeed began to complain of goods and livestock stolen, of barns and houses burned.....Sidney Rigdon gave a speech that would come to be known as the Salt Sermon...."

"....With firely rhetoric, Rigdon made the threat to Missouri Gentiles explicit. He summed up the provocations the Saints had so far received at the hands of unbelievers, the vowed,

Our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity. The man, or set of men, who attempt it, does it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination, for we will follow them till the last drop of their blood is spilled."

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 03:12PM

This is really good. From the beginning, Mormon converts had an arrogance about them - believing they were God's chosen. They can't be entirely blamed for that. It was key to conning a lot of them into leaving everything in order to follow Mormonism. Appeal to their pride, fear, insecurity, need to feel special etc. The same methods are in play in the church today but a lot of it is a legacy from the pioneer ancestors so many of them worship. It's an character flaw/insecurity that has been a weak spot, played by Mormonism since day one. Speaking of the arrogant Mormons, of course, not a blanket statement about all Mormons ever. Although many of the nicer ones are effected by this to some extent too.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 05:33PM

No. You're right. They wouldn't bug me as much. It's that smugness which really gets to me sometimes.

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Posted by: Kaitlyn ( )
Date: January 13, 2013 05:55PM

Smug arrogance defending a patently false concept is pathetic.

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