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Posted by: idahoan ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 04:11PM

Shawn Mccraney's program has been pulled. It appears this may be due to pressure from the evangelical christian community. I find this very sad. Anyone have any info?

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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 04:15PM

I didn't know it was cancelled, but I wasn't a fan.

When I was TBM I got in a debate with him, and he played pretty fast & loose with facts. He's probably a little more rigorous on TV (I hope), but our email debate was riddled with inaccuracies.

...that said, I probably should reconnect with him to tell him I left the church (just in case he remembers me). It's might be some good news for him... though he'd probably be equally upset that I'm an atheist... so maybe I'll just let him be ;)

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 04:22PM

Heh heh. One of his shows that i did see was about how exMormons tend to go atheist. His point was that it is such a damaging cult that when people leave they can't find Jesus and end up in hell anyway.

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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 04:29PM

I have thought about that before. I wondered if I would have taken such a harshly analytical view of things if I had been raised in another church.

It's hard to say, but I've always been an intellectual science-nerd, so I think it was inevitable for me, regardless of which church I'd been raised in.

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Posted by: rracer ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 12:07AM

From the amount of people I have seen on this board that claim they no longer have a belief in any God at all, I would say he was right about that. But seeing I'm nevermo, my opinion doesn't really count.

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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 09:44AM

There are 2 distinct sides to this coin that lead in 2 very different directions.

1) Mormonism messes you up, an you can't trust anyone, including the god who let you be in mormonism, so you go atheist.

2) Having a "truth" that you discover to be false leads you to thinking very critically and analytically (why limit your open-mindedness to just the veracity of the BoM, but of all things [yes, including the bible]).

If your only reason for a belief in god was the church, then that naturally disappears (Atheism: a lack of belief in god). You may one day decide there is a god, but the logical default position is a lack of belief.

I since have researched heavily, and while I cannot rule out all deities, I am convinced through scripture study & history that at least these deities do not exist:
--Mormon God
--Christian God
--Islamic God
--Jewish God

I was attempting to research all religions, but I got tired and decided that a lack of belief was good enough. Though I will one day delve deeper into more of the Asiatic religions.

Since then, I researched atheism and it made the most sense to me. Philosophies about the illogicality of a personal god have led me to believe that even if there is a deity that does exist, that deity either doesn't care about my worship, or does not merit it.

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Posted by: rracer ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:03AM

We're going to have to agree to disagree with this one. While I respect the fact that you have no belief in any God.

I firmly believe that because creation exists in general, there has to be a creator.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:39AM

Can you qualify that? I don't see creation happening anywhere. I just see that which exists is constantly in a state of change.

Further, if you believe that which exists must have been created, who/what created your god? If nothing, why does your god get a free pass? Special pleading much?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 10:40AM by kolobian.

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Posted by: rracer ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:53AM

I don't have to qualify it, kolobian. It's just what I believe that creation doesn't exist without a creator. Just like I accept the fact that you don't believe that.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:56AM

Ok, do you believe the creator exists without a creator? If so, why?

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Posted by: iflewover ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 03:09PM

Save your fingers kolobian. It's turtles all the way down with this one.

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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:56AM

While I respect your difference of opinion, I want to point out 2 things (which I'm sure wont sway you)

1) Correlation is not Causation. You chose the word "creation" which then implies the word "creator." But that first word was already a bised choice. "Existence" is a more accurate word. We can debate about why things exist, and you are correct that science doesn't have a good answer. They have good answers for how things have happened within this existence, but not for existence itself.

2) If there had to be a creator to create this universe, then there had to be something else that created that creator. Was that creation an accident? Do you still subscribe to the infinite god-parent recursion of mormonism? Or do you simply write off gods existence in the same lack of explanation as science writes off the existence of matter in this universe?

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Posted by: rracer ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:16AM

I CHOOSE to believe the teachings in the Holy Bible, I always have. That is my own personal choice. And that book teaches that God is the creator of all things.

Now I know that many of you don't believe that, or no longer believe in the teachings of the Bible, and that is fine and I respect that.

As for you saying that someone had to create God to prove my theory right, many of you would say that man created God. I don't think that way. But again, that is my choice.

The way I see it, if you have believe in God, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.

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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:23AM

It's fine to choose to believe in something.
And that argument is completely separate from your creation argument, and it is inarguable.

I was merely stating that your previous argument was one based on logic of the word "creation."

I apologize if I seemed to attack. I knew beforehand that my argument was not going to sway you, I merely wanted to point out that using an argument like "creation ergo creator" wont do very well when dealing with overly literal/science-y people.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:31AM

Bible teaches a lot of things. Things that are very hard for me to choose to believe are true, because they go against everything that is real to a human experience.

I am comfortable saying I don't know to some thing. I am not comfortable saying "it's a miracle" in the face of evidence that it is not a miracle, does not happen in front of an unChristian audience, and is foreign to any human experience--such as people long dead, talking and walking. No one has ever seen that or experienced that, dead people seem to stay dead. Quite universally, irrespective of faith.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:38AM


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Posted by: justrob ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:41AM

Depending on your definition of "dead," this isn't 100% true:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/96-minute-cpr-marathon-saves-minnesota-mans-life/story?id=13048099#.UO2c_4njkZ4

...but resuscitation "miracles" are the result of advanced science and medicine, so ;)

And it's definitely a very small subset of the dead that are able to be resuscitated.

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Posted by: rracer ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 12:08PM

Okay folks, let's not let this get out of hand. Everyone had made valid claims. Like I said, let's agree to disagree on this one, and move on.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 12:32PM

I was wondering if someone would go there.

I saw the wink to,so you must know that's not what is being talked about here.

What I am saying is as follows:

Mormons--you know a man named John, beheaded over 2,000 years ago is now reanimated and came to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey and did some ordinance works to restore ancient Priesthoods. When you are challenged that Joseph Smith had a reputation in his community of lies and deception, bizarre stories and fanciful business pursuits--you go with the 2,000 year old beheaded guy story?!? Really, not my problem, yours.

Christians--I can leave this lie, and will avoid the Savior story that is based on the premise that there is a universal law not unlike gravity that requires we pay an angry God for our sins, and yet we can't and so He loves Us and so he allowed His Son to die in order for us to comply with this universal law, that I am not so sure about, because He could have chosen push-ups too, but instead He chose to allow His Son to be killed. Not so cool. It's a choice, it's a choice I can't make, but I do want to be happy and part of that is playing well with others, because many Christians are likable. Can they play well with me, or are they required to fix me, change me, and if not possible condemn me to a place they call Hell. This is the real world I live in.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 12:37PM by gentlestrength.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 03:01PM

Mormonism taught me that all other churches were wrong.

Then I found out Mormonism was wrong.

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Posted by: plainprogrammer ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 05:09PM

His show has been cancelled. And it appears to be the fault of Evangelicals afraid of a little self-examination. I am chronicling some of what is known on my own blog (and publishing stuff that probably wasn't meant for public knowledge):

http://toobaptist.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/this-wasnt-right/

I'll be publishing more as it comes to me.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 05:24PM

That's sad - I think he had some good information and helped people see the truth. I know he helped my husband have a couple of ah-ha moments, even if he didn't completely convince him. DH now has some more cog dis on his shelf, thanks to Shawn. But honestly, I haven't watched it much lately because he's become way too fanatical and harsh. He makes fun of his callers, even the ones that agree with him. It's not fun to watch his show, like it used to be. Still, it might be fun to watch some of his earlier shows, which are now podcasts. I hope he finds a good place for himself.

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Posted by: zeezrom ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 06:09PM

I think I've watched nearly all his episodes over the years.

I think his version of Christianity was ok for those leaving LDS and still needing faith and.

Loved his earlier shows when I was still discovering the various problems with LDS history and theology and then later it became more for just entertaining viewing, especially when LDS members would call in and get mad.

I think Shawn will find a way of getting back broadcasting somehow.

There is still Doris Hanson's 'Polygamy: What Love Is This?'show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 06:14PM by zeezrom.

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 06:45PM

According to your blog, the initial instigator of the action is Greg Johnson from Standing Together.

IMO, he doesn't like anyone who takes Mormons to task as his own approach is to cozy up to TSCC knowingly or unknowingly becoming a tool for the "we're Christians, too!" Mormon campaign.

Shawn can be a bit harsh because he doesn't tolerate the BS and platitudes.

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Posted by: plainprogrammer ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 11:00PM

Yes, Greg Johnson appears to be the primary instigator of the show's cancellation. I've received a letter Shawn McCraney, apparently, sent to the TV20 station manager before Greg Johnson got involved that was addressing some of the internal concerns about his emphasis. I'm hoping to share that alongside something official from TV20 in the next couple days.

Shawn can be more than a bit harsh, and I'm not a fan of him at all. But the conditions surrounding his show cancellation just don't pass the smell test and I feel compelled to defend Shawn, despite not caring for his methods and other aspects of his ministry.

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Posted by: sean ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 08:34PM

On Jan 1st, Shawn announced his program was no longer about Mormonism. Instead, he announced (with profanity) his plan to shift focus to evangelical Christianity. If the station wanted to continue with Mormonism and/or didn't want to be complicit with Shawn's belligerence toward local churches, that's more than understandable. But they run shows like Wretched and Word Pictures, so its not like they're against Christian self-examination in general.
BTW caedmon, Greg Johnson was the first person to bring McCraney to TV20. Check out episode 9 of HOTM.

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Posted by: Idahoan ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 09:46PM

I liked the show and am sorry it won't continue. It was Shawn that helped me come out of Mormonism. He taught me that it is through Christ alone that we are saved not through the temple, tithing, home teaching and all the other legalisms the church requires. It has been painful to lose my faith but I am very grateful to know the truth. While I still am examining what I believe, even if I believe in Christ, Shawn has been a source of support when I was most alone. It seems many don't like Shawn but I would like to state my support for him.

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Posted by: lurker99 ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 10:42PM

It is sad to see that Heart of the Matter has been cancelled. I found the show to be very informative about the differences between Mormonism and Christianity. I didn't always agree with how he did things, but I felt he was a Godsend trying to help people to see the truth.

I tuned in to find the show has been replaced by another show (The JB Show, I think). It's another show that demonstrates the differences and there is a panel of experts that include Sandra Tanner, a former BYU professor and ex-mormon, and her husband, also a former mormon. What they discussed tonight is probably common knowledge among those who post/lurk on this site or who have watched Heart of the Matter. The two differences are it's not a call in show and it's a lot more tame than Shawn's show. I really liked Sandra's simple and to the point answers.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, I think this will be a good replacement for Heart of the Matter, although there will be things I will miss about the show.

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: January 08, 2013 11:09PM

I'm sorry to see him go, especially with some of this historical stuff.

I'm an atheist, so he probably wouldn't be happy with me, but miss knowing he's not getting the word out.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 09:53AM

http://hotm.tv/349/

Here's the last show. I think Shawn is earnest, bold, challenging, and probably effective at reaching the un reachable because he appears so flawed and goofy to Mormons they think they can take him on.

I don't concern myself with the Christianity preaching just the efficacy and taking on the fraud that is the Mormon cult. His move shows a very genuine, reflective, and brave character. Wish him well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 09:53AM by gentlestrength.

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Posted by: androidandy ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 10:36AM

@ justrob - totally agree with your points.

Mormonism messes people up and is best avoided, its like a harmful drug.

The bible, JC, Islam, and the rest of organized religion don't pass the straight face test for me. I have the mindset of I'm not going to worry about the endless opinions of deity and just enjoy my life.

The upside is you save time, money, and useless shame, guilt, and controlling people.

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Posted by: Gordon Guymon ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 11:39AM

Although entertaining at times, in the end it was about convincing others to leave one cult and join another.

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Posted by: jeff ( )
Date: January 09, 2013 02:50PM

Hotm was cancelled because this year he was going to go after the Christian church. Six years TV20 allowed him to air the problems with the LDS church; God forbid he examines their own practices. Hypocrites. No thanks to channel 20.

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