I can't believe that people still think this way. How can the rape possibly be the victim's fault? This womans could do more damage to her sister with her attitude than the actual rape.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:05PM by Susan I/S.

I agree that the sister is judgmental ,but is.is.possible that her sister is exhibiting behavior that puts her at risk. We dont know all the.facts and I agree that the sister should be more.sympathetic. The victim may not be responsible but there are things that some victims do that puts them at high risk. Just saying and before I get flamed that does not let the rapist off the hook or justify the sister' s uncaring attitude

Jesus, Bona Dea, how stainless and pure does a victim have to be to rate as victim?

This whole thread is turning my stomach.

Maybe it's just too scary for you to admit that shit happens and any of you could be a victim. (One in 5 women are.)

I've often said that I was lucky that I was asleep in my own bed when the bastard came through the window with a knife. Because otherwise I would have been fending off 'suggestions' and 'wonderings' and 'just saying' from dunderheads like you. Jesus.

What does that say about the crime of rape and the re-victimisation of the victims?

(And come to it, even in those 'innocent' circumstances, the landlord pointed out I shouldn't have had the window open. In June. In Los Angeles. Would you consider that risky behaviour?)

As I say, you're turning my stomach.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:03PM by Lorraine aka síóg.

Excuse me, but is just possible that the girl is regularly getting drunk out of her mind and going home with strange men. We dont know because her sister didnt say. I.am thinking there might be a reason for the attitude of the sister.I also said that even if the girl did something stupid, and we don't know that she did, it does NOT justify either the rape or her sister' s lack of compassion.Geesh, I am just.pointing out that we just might not have all the facts. I would suggest you read posts before you go off on posters. I.find flaming pretty.objectional too. I understand that you were.raped.through no.fault of your own, but there are people who regularly do risky things. There are men who.are. victimized because of false accusations. I know a case where that happened.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:24PM by bona dea.

To quote another little old Scots woman of my acquaintance, 'Poor Mike Tyson.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:30PM by Lorraine aka síóg.

Good Lord. I have no sympathy for.Mike's Tyson, but his.victim did.do a.stupid.thing .Do you think she acted wisely? Sure she was young and BTW she wasn't drunk as far as I know, but going to a hotel room with someone you don't.know is risky. .And yes Tyson belonged in jail and I do feel very sorry for his victim. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth.I am sorry for what happened to you, but some.victims do put themselves at risk by getting drunk or stoned, by hitchhiking etc

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good Lord. I have no sympathy for.Mike's Tyson,
> but his.victim did.do a.stupid.thing .Do you think
> she acted wisely? Sure she was young and BTW she
> wasn't drunk as far as I know, but going to a
> hotel room with someone you don't.know is risky.
> .And yes Tyson belonged in jail and I do feel very
> sorry for his victim. Kindly stop putting words in
> my mouth.I am sorry for what happened to you, but
> some.victims do put themselves at risk by getting
> drunk or stoned, by hitchhiking etc
====================================================
So you have never done something stupid? Wow. Amazing. I have.

Get this: NO ONE deserves to be raped!

Oh, well, Tyson served his time (an ADULT in a juvenile facility) and is now all hail-the-conquering-hero... A good guy. Boys will be boys, what a rascal. All is forgiven. He has a reality show, is respected as a fighter...

Who cares about the victim?

NO ONE.

Hell, she might as well be one of Michael Vick's dogs.

Yes I have done stupid things and I was very sympathetic of Tyson' s victim, thank you very much,but that is not the same thing as thinking that going to.a hotel room with a stranger is a good idea.Good Lord, what is'wrong with you people? All bet you would be blowing your.stack if you found out your daughter was hitchhiking, picking up strangers in bars etc. It is freaking common sense to use your head and not trust that everyone is trustworthy

NO ONE HERE said that "going to a hotel room with a stranger is a good idea"!

Yes, there ARE some things that one should not do, just to be safe. That's a given.

BUT... when a person has been raped, exactly what good do folks like you do with your Monday morning quarterbacking; all your gee-you-shouldn't-a-done-thus-and-so" admonishing? All you succeed in doing is making the victim feel like $#!† and lessening their chances of recovering and progressing from victim to survivor. Oh, yeah, and talk like that is a defense lawyer's wet dream.

What I said was that there might be more to this story than was told. There might be reasons why the sister is dubious that a rape happened or the other sister might have been warned and warned that her behavior was dangerous. We don't know, but is sounded to.me that there might be more to the story. Got it? On the subject of being judgmental , I have nothing on you and and Siog. You have called me names, attacked me and put words in my mouth that I never said. This is ridiculous.Good Lord. I am done with you two.Learn to.read and stop telling me what I think

Kindly tell me where I have called you names, Bona Dea. I have disagreed pointedly with your opinion here, but I have never called you any names. I don't think I've been rude to you. Confrontational, yes. But this stuff hits close to home for me.

I think we're grownups and can argue, can't we?

I guess what bugs me the most about it all is that when a person is mugged or robbed or vandalized, we don't wonder aloud and murmur to each other about what they could have done wrong. With a rape victim we do... WHY?

Last summer my tires were slashed. No one said well, hell, Doxi, if you'd kept yer danged old Jeep in the garage where it belonged it would never have happened. But you know, that's true. If our garage wasn't so full of junk that there's no room for it, the Jeep woulda been in there, and...

Now if someone had said that to me after it happened, what good would it have done?

Look at your last paragraph where you implied I would tell a victim it was her fault. You know this how? I might privately question the judgement of someone who got in a car with a stranger,but I wouldn't say that to them and I would be compassionate. I think most people would also question in those circumstances and maybe even use it as an object lesson with their own kids. You were more than confrontational.You were very rude and I doubt you even read all my posts, but you didn't let that stop you from judging me. FWIW, my comment was meant for two of you. It wasn't all about you. I stand by what I said.

It doesn't matter what situation the rape occurred in--it was a RAPE. It could be a prostitute who got raped--it is STILL A RAPE.

Rapists rape elderly, babies, whoever--and it should NEVER matter what the circumstance is. It still is RAPE and the victim needs only compassion--not judgement.

It wasn't even established that any rape took place.
It was what the girl's MOTHER said when she first found out the girl was pregnant.
Just sayin' -- we don't know.

Just sayin'

Of course we don't know the specifics in this vague case. The point is how quickly the commenters -- sister, those here -- jumped to the suggestion that no crime had occurred. It's just a convenient cover. Blame shifting.

Perhaps. We here will never know.

But what other crime inspires such recrimination addressed to the victim? What other victim has to defend her movements, motives, expressions, dress, choice of entertainment, and so on?

And how quickly did everyone here jump on.

Get back to us, will you, when you can establish that 'rape took place.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:50PM by Lorraine aka síóg.

If I left my car in a high crime area with the doors unlocked the keys in the keys in the ignition and if it got stolen, I.think the police, insurance company and my family would think I behaved in a stupid and irresponsible manner and they would be right. I might well be asked to explain why I did such a stupid thing.However, the thief is in no.way absolved because I was dumb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 08:00PM by bona dea.

sigh

Sigh, you just dont seem capable of understanding that some people engage in risky behavior.

And I said that, but that doesn't mean that it is safe to go off with people you don't know or.accept rides from strangers. The chances of being a victim go.way up if you do . Does anyone actually read posts?This is for CL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 07:40PM by bona dea.

The type of guy who will rape will take advantage of the tiniest slip-up. No woman ever does everything in her life with 100% complete safety. You just can't. I was attacked while walking across what was otherwise a very safe, peaceful college campus. I just happened to be out of sight of others for a short amount of time. *The attacker was specifically looking for that opportunity.*

Decent guys will treat you humanely even if you are sloppy drunk. Rapists will take advantage of the merest sliver of opportunity. If women think they are always acting with complete safety, *they are mistaken.* Yes, it can happen to you.

My mother was a highly cautious woman, and she too, was attacked (she managed to escape.) She was hiking with a youth group and was caught by herself for a short amount of time and thrown to the ground.

But the point is that engaging in risky behavior increases the risk of rape No one is entirely safe, but getting into a stranger's car or getting drunk and picking up a stranger in a bar is dangerous.I was teaching school during Ted Bundy' s reign of terror. Every morning on my way to school I saw kids hitching rides even though local girls were disappearing every week and turning up dead. No matter how you spin it, that was stupid and I was not shy about telling them so.

Yes, we don't know all the facts.

But what remains, a woman (or man, men get raped as well) should not feel vulnerable when they engage in 'risky behavior.' Whatever that means...

A woman (or man) should have a right to go out, get drunk, and flirt, but also has a right to set limits. Those limits need to be respected. I've flirted with people before only to be polite and to not hurt their feelings. That doesn't mean I'm 'asking for it'

A woman (or man) has a right to wear 'revealing' clothing in public. Everyone wants to be admired. Society sometimes demands it. But she shouldn't be subjected to lewd comments, leering stares, and ultimately violence.

If I (a gay man) wear tight pants in public, should I just accept when people call me a f*****? Am I 'asking for it'?

Another thing that struck me as offensive on the judgemental sister's part... the judgemental sister asked for only "supportive comments," oblivious to the fact that she herself was not willing to give only supportive comments to her sister.

I agree that the sister seemed judgmental and I agree that people should be'able to.dress the way they want and flirt, but there is difference between those things and picking up a total stranger in a seedy bar and going home with him when you are too drunk to know what you are doing.

While I agree that no one ever asks to be raped or assaulted, I have to agree with bona dea that there are things people (not just women) can do to be safer. That doesn't mean that if a crime is committed that they are guilty. It just means that we'd all do well to remember that not all people are decent and humane. It's just plain smart to keep your wits about you whenever possible.

Of course, sometimes even when you're in your own home, you can become the victim of a crime. And sometimes people you thought were trustworthy turn out not to be trustworthy. Crime victims are never "at fault" when they become victims, though.

I was going to write essentially the same thing but you saved me the trouble. :-)

That's true, as some posters on Babycenter mentioned that female BYU students have trusted the wrong person because he claimed to be a RM. Even if people follow all precautions, there are times when it's not enough to prevent rape from occurring. After all, rapes happen in the victim's own home or dorm room.

I can't believe the posters at the LDS baby center were more sympathic towards the sister/victim and more anti-rape culture than the posters here on RFM. Really disappointing.

The way to make women safer is for men to stop raping them. The end.

I don't see where the OP on the Babycenter thread gave enough information to guess anything but that she herself is the product of some very bad Mormon parenting. It seems kind of pathological to me that her side would be taken here on RfM.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 12:12PM by munchybotaz.

This thread hits me hard cause I was date raped in March. I was drunk and passed out and didn't know what had happened to me until the guy I was with told me he had sex with me four times while I was passsed out (he showed me the used condoms because I didn't believe him). The last thing I remembered before I passed out was telling him no and pushing him away. Yes, I wasn't very smart in getting drunk with a guy I didn't know all that well. But he definitely was in the wrong because I told him no and he did it when I was unconscious.
Do you know how hard it is to be the victim? I felt like it was all my fault, that it never would had happened if I didn't drink with the guy. I felt like comitting suicide so many times after it happened. No matter how many times I heard that its not the victims fault, I had a hard time accepting that.
We need to put the only fault to the raper.
The guy later told me that he didn't think he was doing anything wrong because "it is well known in the world that girls who get drunk with guys want to have sex". These types of attitudes from men need to be changed. Women must be seen as much more than sexual objects, or lesser people who men have power over. And its not mormon specific either.
The entire thing makes me sick.

I'm sorry for what you went through. I agree with you. I hope you find peace for yourself.

anon4acause Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread hits me hard cause I was date raped in
> March. I was drunk and passed out and didn't know
> what had happened to me until the guy I was with
> told me he had sex with me four times while I was
> passsed out (he showed me the used condoms because
> I didn't believe him). The last thing I remembered
> before I passed out was telling him no and pushing
> him away. Yes, I wasn't very smart in getting
> drunk with a guy I didn't know all
> The guy later told me that he didn't think he was
> doing anything wrong because "it is well known in
> the world that girls who get drunk with guys want
> to have sex".

If he didn't think he'd done anything wrong, I wonder why he bothered telling you afterward? He must have known on some level it was wrong, even if that didn't prevent him from doing it. I am so sorry this happened to you. Please consider seeing a good counselor if you haven't already!

We need to.do both because some men will rape regardless and women need to be careful. It won't prevent all rapes, but common.sense will prevent many.