Prior threads have addressed the newly publicized Mission President's Handbook, which define "necessary living expenses", and provide a template regarding how church leadership is paid. Basic living expenses and luxuries are cloaked as a "necessary living expenses", and include "reimbursement" for expenses such as a housekeeper, gardener, Christmas present, tuition, transportation, food, music lessons, healthcare, rent, utilities...pretty much everything I call "life", and lots of things I can't afford.

It's reasonable to assume that since the church had the balls to put the scheme in print, it's likely the same method they use to pay the General Authorities. This realization triggered a memory of something else I read in the manual. On page 83 it reads, "You do not pay tithing on money reimbursed to you by the church".

WTF???

So, with all living expenses "reimbursed" by the church via a bank account controlled by the church and accessed by the user with a credit card, those in the plan, which include the General Authorities, are told to pay no tithing?

Unbelievable! Just think of it. Every conference talk, every GA quotation, every lesson manual you ever read that directed you to pay tithing, was said or written by someone who does not pay tithing. Not only do they not pay, they live off the tithing of those who pay.

Am I up in the night with this assumption?

I suppose that those with outside business interested would still pay tithing on that income. But for "lifers" who spend nearly their entire adult career in church leadership, they are getting a free ride.

How do you spell Oligarchy? L D S

It. Makes. Me. Sick.

Bingo!!!!

Even the Queen of England pays taxes. Taxes for the Queen would be little different than tithing for GA's since the revenues benefit the organization that you're heading up. You'd think the GA's could muster up the same kind of integrity.

It's good to be in the inner circle, eh?

..."Well, they give their whole lives to the church."

Yeah, okay.

No, they don't pay. The 19 year old that goes on a mission pays tithing on his mission money though. If he/she didn't they wouldn't be 'allowed' to go on a mission that they pay for.

The 12 receive salaries in the 60-80k range. They get living expenses in addition..they get a chouffer, fly 1st class, the 1st presidency gets a 24 hr chef, they get a new luxury SUV every year. They get interest free loans that they do not have to pay back (bonuses)...they get salaris from the boards they sit on, they get royalties from books....they pay taxes on a few of these items, but their income gets ito the hunderds of thousands easily....but they do not pay tithing. just as jesus did....

"60-80K range" - and you arrive at that figure how? No disrespect, but their salary is much much higher than that.

Don't be silly... They don't get "paid" anything, so there's nothing to pay tithing on. They hold all things in common, living the "true" law of consecration!

That means that everything they "own" is really the church's, any money they receive, no matter how large the paycheck... er... stipend, is only to cover their living expenses and to make sure that they are comfortable and have everything they need for all their travels, clothes, etc.

And since they are living the true law of consecration, while the money may be in their bank account with their name on it, it's really the church's money all along, it's only in their name for accounting purposes... I'm sure... right?

At least that's what I was always told when I was a TBM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2012 04:58PM by Finally Free!.

If that's true, then imagine how stuck they must feel.

Yes, and it makes reading the story of Korihor and Alma more interesting. Korihor, the anti-Mormon, was accused of lying about Alma when he claimed Alma gluttoned himself off the labors of the members. But the preceding chapter had described just how Alma worked for a living, so the reader was set up to know Korihor was a liar. Members are likely being set up. The poorest members who serve as member janitors, paying tithing instead of their mortgage are supporting the fat cat leaders who are hypocrites on tithing & taxes.
In case anyone missed where this is all coming from.
http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com/2012/12/pay-lay-missionary.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2012 05:38PM by Jesus Smith.

The 15 are living out the Smith family dream. It would be a shame to let such a great scam go to waste.

Christmas presents? A gardener?

So...the average active TBM member who teaches Primary, does VT/HT and spends $200-300 per month on supplies for their callings can deduct that amount from their monthly tithe, right? And they can deduct the gas or bus money for their 2-3 times weekly trips to church, right? And they can deduct the cost of clothing that is considered appropriate for church wear, right? RIGHT?

This seriously pisses me off.

I was trying to find out how long MP's serve (looks like it is 3 years) when I ran across this article:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mission-presidents-leave-home-behind-to-serve-throughout-the-world


Of course, the very first line includes "without pay":

"This month 114 married couples will leave their homes, careers or retirement, and even family to serve without pay for three years in leading one of the 344 worldwide missions...".

Oh but it's not pay. It's a stipend. The fact that the two are identical in personal terms (only different in legal terms) is just meat that you, poor infantile spirit that you are, are just not ready for.

The words of a great mormon sage echo in my mind:

"Some things that are true are not very useful"


BKP: philosopher to the deluded

Long time lurker here. First reply. GAs do pay tithing. It is automatically taken out of their pay. Just like taxes, insurance. No choice in the matter. About mission presidents have no idea.

How does that make it any better? Even the "modest" amount that mps receive is absolutely outrageous. Unpaid clergy indeed.

actually, you have no idea at all. GAs very likely don't pay tithing on "reimbursed" living expenses. which are significant.

laughingloudly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long time lurker here. First reply. GAs do pay
> tithing. It is automatically taken out of their
> pay. Just like taxes, insurance. No choice in the
> matter. About mission presidents have no idea.

The church can pay my house, car, insurance, gifts, groceries, household help, travel costs, tuition for private schools and universities, utilities and every other cost I can conceive of for me and I will gladly in exchange give them 10% of my income. That the deal of the damn century.

...since the scriptures say to give a tenth of the firstlings of the flock, and since the members of the church are the flock, the brethren secretly sacrifice a tenth of Mormon newborns each year.

Tithing? Hell, they don't even pay attention.

Who else better to tell you where to spend your money than someone who is forbidden from spending their own money in the same way?

When Apostate Robert D. Hales so lovingly told his wife that "We Can't Afford It" and then lovingly shared it with all of us at General Conference a few years ago, he was doing so to help us all understand how wonderful living a life of need and want is. He longs for those halcyon days of yore once again as he is blandly chauffered to his boring old meetings in his brand new Cadillac Escalade. How he loves to share his wisdom for Provident Living because he no longer has those blessings himself - he in fact is cursed with eating horrible, church-provided foods like porterhouse steaks, lobsters, and baked Alaska, while the more well-heeled in his former ward lavish themselves on sumptuous meals of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, Van Camp's Beans and Franks, and that delicacy of delicacies, Spam and Green Jello.

Once again to remember the good old days, he wants to have the delicate taste of tuna noodle casserole topped with crushed stale potato chip crumbs wash over his palate.

How he wishes he could fill out those tithing slips once more - so that his ten children could walk to school with broken shoes and come home with rusty nails in their feet so that they could go to the bishop and have him anoint them with olive oil instead of that expensive doctor with his quack tetanus shots.

Yes, it truly is difficult and challenging being a General Authority....

I believe 'stipends' are exempt from federal income taxes.
Anyone who's interested/lives in Utah can easily check; state income taxes are often based on Federal terms/definition & exemptions & deductions (too lazy to make their own rules).

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe 'stipends' are exempt from federal income taxes.

Not that I'm aware of. Teachers sometimes receive stipends for training sessions that are not strictly speaking required (although it's often hinted otherwise) and are outside of regular work hours. The stipends are always taxed just like any other paycheck.

To me, a stipend usually means, "we have an official excuse to pay you less than your regular rate of pay."

I have no idea about reimbursements for those on church business. But somehow I think that the IRS would take a dim view of it if the MPs, 70s, etc. are not paying taxes on reimbursements related to everyday living expenses and luxuries.

I don't pay tithing lol

He he. I don't either.

I question myself when I read the comments. How on earth can anyone with a right mind believe that they not get paid or pay taxes?
First: When you look behind the curtain, have a real look inside - behind, you know what this is all about. None on earth can tell me that a SP/MP and so on is still a TBM. Not with this product. You have to offer them something to stay.
Second: They don’t pay taxes. What else is new? Do you really believe that a catholic bishop pays taxes?
If they would pay taxes they would open a Wal-Mart and not a church. This is what church is all about.

The Stake Presidents I've known have definitely seemed TBM to me. They don't get stipends either.

My Mission Presidents also seemed VERY TBM, but I may have been deceived ...

Well, that does it. I guess we've all just figured out why, even when they OBVIOUSLY know it's a sham, that most upper-tier GA's stay on and don't say anything about the true nature of the church.

Problem solved.

Tithing is recycled many times over before it even reaches their pockets... investment schemes.

So the church is the one who gives them the money in the first place and people think they should pay the church 10 percent of it back? That doesn't make sense. They do pay tithing on their own personal incomes from other sources.

But the church requires all of its other employees (CES, BYU, COB, etc.) to pay tithing even thought their pay comes from the church. So why are the GAs exempt?

CES BYU COB are all regular jobs one would have as a profession and the pay they get is an increase that is taxed and tithed. They can also spend their earned money for anything they want for themselves and family.
The GAs are donating their time that they could have used generating an income and are therefore reimbursed for the expenses. Because they donated their time the money they get to cover expenses is not considered an increase that requires payment of tithing.
Anytime any member who gets reimbursed for expenses incurred while donting time for performing their callings, don't pay tithing on the reimbursement because it is not considered an increase.

And you know that GAs are only reimbursed for "expenses" how? Given that The Cult does not release any financial information, the only basis for your claim that they re only reimbursed for their expenses is speculation. How do you know that GAs don't receive compensation beyond any "expenses" they incur?

Besides, your explanation does not address my point from my first post - you stated that it doesn't make sense for GAs to give money back to the church who gave it to them in the first place, but with that rationale it also doesn't make sense for other church employees to give money back to the church who gave it to them in the first place.