I'm wondering about Bishops, Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, Temple Presidents or Area Authorities. Anyone know of any? Just curious. This is my first time posting. I'm in the midst of that "crisis" of faith that you all know so well. I will post more about me and my story later.

Hi TightLikeUntoADish! Welcome to RfM!!
Tom Phillips is a former Stake President in the UK who left the 'church' over issues with the BoM disagreeing with science. His story is available here (http://mormonthink.com/tomphillips.htm#podcast). It's a 4 hour long podcast that many people on this site have found very helpful. He outlines his problems with the Mormon faith and talks about a ritual called the 'second anointing' that was performed on him by an 'apostle'. It is well worth listening to!!
He also posts as 'anointed one' on this site and is the new head of mormonthink.com, a website you should definitely check out

TOM PHILLIPS, england stake president who was given 2nd annointing election made sure in the temple, friend of appostle Holland, left the church after Holland couldnt answer his questions on evidence to the book of mormon let alone the revelations that there was no death before
Adam, not even the dianasors, just animated fun god was playing like toys in a garden of eden..

Anyway I gave Tom evidence that the book of mormon might be true being gods elite chosen stuck up people? he he ha ha

The traveled to the promised land, throught something like the bemuda triangle to america in another demension and all those civalizations existed in time and space apon the parallel earth adjoined or next to this one two in one. Tho bible evidence can be prooven in our time and space but the high and mighty levitial exaltation seeks entered into different demension and for the faithful who denied all the scientific facts on this earth in this life, who are totally insane hypnotise the church is true going on feeling not facts that the bible warned against anyway, will oneday see all the facts of the book of mormon that is contained in the millions of bones and the metals they used etc all preseved in the real hill camora, not in our demension but another...

I got no repliey from Tom yet. He misses his family that kicked him out for leaving the church....

Mormon love is not true love..

love is a choice through thick and thin in or out of the church
even if painful if the spouse has done nothing wrong by leaving the church but remains faithful, should not be dumped. Poor Tom

hear his radio show also on mormonthink.com or another not sure.

larry.

larry john,

You say you gave me some evidence and I haven't replied. I don't recall anything and have gone back through my emails and private messages.

Could you please re-send whatever it was and I promise to reply.

Thanks,
Tom

larry john wrote "Anyway I gave Tom evidence that the book of mormon might be true being gods elite chosen stuck up people? he he ha ha

The traveled to the promised land, throught something like the bemuda triangle to america in another demension and all those civalizations existed in time and space apon the parallel earth adjoined or next to this one two in one. Tho bible evidence can be prooven in our time and space but the high and mighty levitial exaltation seeks entered into different demension and for the faithful who denied all the scientific facts on this earth in this life, who are totally insane hypnotise the church is true going on feeling not facts that the bible warned against anyway, will oneday see all the facts of the book of mormon that is contained in the millions of bones and the metals they used etc all preseved in the real hill camora, not in our demension but another...

I got no repliey from Tom yet."

Over the history of the church there have been many high ups, from first presidency members (william law) and apostles (a few early on and one in the 1900s). In the 1990s, Steve Benson left

Most recently (past five years), a member of the third quorum 70, Hans H Mattson, quietly left. A temple president Jerrell Chesney. A few CES/Institute directors have left (Grant Palmer, Ken Clark and the McLay family most recently), and as mentioned above, Tom Phillips, who is the new managing editor at MormonThink (replacing me a couple of weeks ago).

Tom and Steve both still post here regularly.

But for the most part, we don't worry about royalty here. Everyone has great stories to tell.

Mormon Stories hosts some content that refers to the mass of resignations beginning to penetrate to the upper echelons of Church leadership (mission presidents, stake presidents, etc.).

See: http://www.youtube.com/user/exmormonfoundation?feature=results_main

John Dehlin also makes reference to this in the following:

http://mormonstories.org/uvu-mormonism-and-the-internet-john-dehlin-scott-gordon-fair-and-rosemary-avance/

As others have indicated, there are some prominent/people in positions of high leadership who have disaffected. Of course, it doesn't really matter WHO is doing the disaffecting--it matters WHY. I would submit that people in high leadership have more incentives in place not to disaffect, so that process won't really get going right away...

Good luck in your search etc.

Yes. But they will never post here and they are my friends (or I'm theirs) because I won't reveal who they are. I wish you well on your way out!

ETA: My friends are female. I don't get into "high callings" referring only to priesthood holders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2012 12:21PM by toto.

I respond once in a while, on this excellent site and others. And my name is Ken W. Clark, Moscow, ID, former bishop and everything else, and 32 years as a full time CES'er. I don't have anything to hide. In fact, I'm proud to be an ex-Mormon!

What is a CES? Thanks.

Church Educational System. Like for seminary or institute.

The higher you are in the church oligarchy, the higher the cost of bucking the church.
For some, it's their whole life...they have nothing to fall back on, no safety net. The church owns them.
If it were only their own welfare I think many would take the plunge...but they could take alot away from their families. Even local generic members like me pay a big social price for leaving. My family patronizes me. I've lost their respect. But I've suffered no major financial loss because of it. If my income depended on the church it'd be a whole 'nother equation. You CAN'T just turn off your income and go find another job so easily. You could literally go bankrupt and lose your home and security. When that involves your family, you CAN'T just say what-the-heck.
I think there MUST be non-believers in the oligarchy just based on sheer probability. Anecdotally there are. But they have alot to lose and thay have to protect themselves...if they defect from the church, the church WILL actively HURT them. We're NOT dealing with a church that just says sorry-you-feel-that-way, we're dealing with a sect, a corporate racket that uses criminal methods to protect itself. We can't expect defectors to just throw themselves on the sword.

I believe there are some "higher-ups" who understand this church is not what it claims to be. However, they stay in for various reasons--power, family, peer pressure (work, friends), etc.

When I served as a Bishop, I had doubts and I know some other Bishops/SP/HC types also wondered about things. But, they were very careful to say anything outside of some private conversations (with me).

The thing that made me question the church the most was (what I considered then) the lack of inspiration of the SP and others I worked with. I was very disappointed at the lack of direction, mistakes, poor judgements, etc. I thought, where is the inspiration?--these are the chosen ones. Well, I got to believe that many others (who have any kind of open-mind) would have the same experience.

I am aware of two Branch Presidents, two Bishops, and three HC who are not inactive--I am not sure what happened to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2012 12:01PM by sam.

Priesthood, one of the four core ways for a TBM to recognize the Church is a fraud without investigating history or doctrine. People just need to pay attention to the claims and reality of power of the Mormon priesthood. To me even the name is suspect--priesthood.

The bishop that called me on a Mo mission left not too long after I returned. His family was very prominent in the Sunnyvale Wards and Palo Alto Stake in California. Apparently he left his wife and family for a woman that was not valiant in the pre-existence was cursed and was "filthy, loathsome and cursed". This was before President and Phalse Prophet Yoda received the 1978 revelation. It still just cracks me up.

Marshall

I like Steve Benson's posts on here. He worked at the Daily Universe when I was a student at BYU. So I have appreciated his work for some time. BUT, TALK ABOUT AN INSIDER'S VIEW! Wow! He brings to the table a perspective enjoyed by few.

While not a Stake Prez or whatever (I think) - Richard Dutcher (writer/director/producer/actor of God's Army and several other flims) has also left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2012 12:09PM by bigred.

Just this week he wrote the following on his Facebook wall:

I'm a little angry now so I'll say it. Publicly. Officially. Richard, why do most Mormon artists leave the church? Richard: "Because true artists are in search of the Truth. And THE TRUTH INEVITABLY LEADS THE ARTIST OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH." It's the truth. Live with it. Fight it. Accept it. Whatever.

Jerrell Chesney was president of the Oklahoma City temple.



Excerpt from a letter:

"I would never have made the decision that I made unless I was absolutely certain that it was the right decision to make. Since I had so fully embraced the church, it filled me with agony and despair and forced the most sickening grief to separate myself from it. The factors of truth, honesty, and integrity, were so compellingly influential, however, that, finally, I had to face up to what I had tried hard to avoid. I hasten to say that my belief in Christ and my commitment to Christ has not diminished in the least. My only problem is with the Mormon Church. Notwithstanding that, it has some commendable features that I appreciate, it is too full of deceit and hypocrisy with regard to its history and to its continuous representations to the world for me to associate it with the glorious and defining principle of truth. One doesn't wish or expect to find practices of hypocrisy and deceit so interwoven into a true Christian enterprise."

I was in OKC/Norman area late 70's-early 80's & remember the Chesney name...hmmm...anyone else?

***l former Mission President Buenos Aires North 81 - 83, Buenos Aires South 83-84 and former MTC President Santiago Chile

President **** Portugal Porto mission (our own poster, "SL Drone")

H. *** President Oklahoma City Oklahoma temple, who has remained very private about the matter.

At the ex-Mo conference there was a new couple who live between BC and their native New Zealand. He was in the stake presidency right before coming to the conference.

I had a family friend a few years ago who was 1st counselor in the stake presidency and quit over night. He was excommunicated for apostasy because he didn't know about resignation. The people in the stake absolutely hated the man after that.

On the board here we have several former bishops. I was never a bishop, but served on two high councils, as high priest group leader, and was once a branch president.

We can't forget all the church educators: Grant Palmer, Ken Clark, D. Michael Quinn and the others. I can't name them all, personally, but they are the ones who really feel the blunt end because they also lose their jobs.

Steve Epperson was a professor at BYU and curator of the LDS History Museum, and is now a Unitarian Universalist minister in BC.

Eric K edit - I deleted some of the names as I am not sure they want those so public, although they are in the public domain through enough searching...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2012 12:48PM by Eric K.

My Dad was over the years EQP and HC and very highly respected in the Mormon community of southern Alberta. In the years after Mom passed away, I think his faith in things Mormon began to weaken. I know he belived in God or a higher power but understood my abandoning the church. I know family ALWAYS held a higher place in his heart than did the church.

Ron Burr

I think every person who leaves the church is "prominent". Every person who walks away permanently is another nail in the coffin of the church. It doesn't make it more valid because that person was an LDS VIP.

I agree with you, TwoJedis, but looking at it from a Mormon point-of-view, a "prominent" member leaving matters much more to them than Brother Schmoe in Provo 9,922nd Ward.

Look at how they crow about their famous members: The Osmonds, Gladys Knight, Steve Young, Brandon Flowers, etc, and higher-status leadership positions in TSCC ARE a version of Mormon-celebrity. More members know their names and can have their testimonies shaken. Status is the Mormon-measuring-stick of righteousness.

While local leaders and some rabid members may go to some effort to discredit Brother and Sister Schmoe in their own ward and stake--and it gets dialed up in proportion to the noise level of the exit--much more energy goes into discrediting famous ex-Mo's. Status means everything in Mormonism, even more than money.

Witness Dan Peterson's attacks on Tal Bachman, a prolific poster here in the mid-2000's. He posted under his real name and was in the apologists' crosshairs, while a non-famous Mormon apostate in Alpine 247th ward could say the same things and not warrant a mention.

Disclaimer for those who want to steer the conversation into the not-all-Mormons-are-that-way ditch: Yes, I know this is not true of ALL Mormons. Don't attribute *your* black-and-white thinking to me. InTheNameofSurferJesusIsHawwwt, Ahhh-men

I dont know if you would consider them 'prominent', but 2 people in my old ward (1980's/1990's) went on to become bishops in different areas of the UK.
A year or two ago I was delighted to find out that both of them had now left the church (one of them, I discovered in the 'comments' section of one of 'Steve Bloors' blogs - http://stevebloor.wordpress.com (Steve Bloors is *yet another* Bishop who has left the church)

I was a temple ordinance worker in 1990 when the big changes came to the endowment ritual...
But, alas, I have not the proper and righteous gonads necessary to be 'high profile.'
That's ok-- I slit myself open too many times to not carry residual fear...

I know a girl (exmormon) dating an exmormon former bishop. She told me it was his calling as a bishop that did it for him. Started with people asking questions and looking to him for advice and he wanted to be sincere and help them so he started digging more into history and then BOOM.

Me - I'm prominent!!!! I was was important enough to teach the young 'uns as a nursery teacher and Primary Chorister!!!

Later on, I had a few more "lofty titles" such as Gospel Essentials teacher and another stake "calling" --but I think the most prominent ones were with indoctrinating the little tykes :)

I don't remember his name but a former temple president of the Oklahoma temple left the church.

Jerrell Chesney. See above!

I just had a short e-mail from a stake president in South America who is leaving the church because of all the corruption. "It's being run like a big business, and the leaders are making no effort to deal with the corruption."

Richard, keep up the good work. Your writing has been very helpful to me. I am glad you are there for those of us who need the support. Thank you.

I'm the daughter of an exmo bishop and the sister of yet another exmo bishop. Runs in the family.