I am worried for my fiance and the sake of our relationship. I don't know if people have seen many of my posts but I am engaged and my fiance was raised in a very Mormon home.

Her and her parents both know that I was Mormon and I don't go there anymore but I have attended a couple of times with them.

What I am worried about is her relationship with her parents. They're very opinionated and they don't like me very much (it's off and on. Randomly they like me, randomly they don't). They're also the "No one is good enough for my little girl" kind of parents.

When she gets really close to her parents our relationship starts to falter and it seems like she isn't as understanding of me as usual and she starts developing Mormony habits.

There was one point where her parents almost convinced her to break up with me (for their own selfish and unsupportive/unappreciative reasons) but she eventually used her own judgement and didn't listen.

For a while before we got engaged and a little while after she hadn't been as close to her parents and we were getting along great and and she was being very understanding and wasn't listening to her parents fickle annoyances about me (because usually it's about something stupid like something I said that wasn't quite what they wanted to hear).

Yesterday she had a really long conversation with her Mom. It was over two hours and she was saying that they really understand each other a lot better and all of the sudden, this awkward tension has almost immediately returned to our relationship.

I really don't like this and I am extremely worried about my relationship with her now.

Edit: I am making this edit because I got a post that posed the question of whether or not it was my own worry because of past history and he was, in fact, correct on the matter and it was my own worry. I keep forgetting how much more open minded she is than her parents and she actually told me that she wants to talk to me about what we want because she doesn't want her parents to get involved.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2012 02:30AM by nickson.

Picture it happening for 5 ..10 ... 20...30 years

Up to that?
Think hard and clearly. you know the girl, I don't.

old saying : Daughters are daughters all their life, Sons are sons till they take a wife

some truth to that
My heart goes out to you. It is not a secure feeling I can imagine

Best

True that.

She takes your name, you take her family.

It's a package deal. Don't make the mistake and think it's not.

Religion causes all rationality to go out the freakin' window. No matter what she says, her family (immediate and extended) will be an ever present force or factor in your marriage.

My wife was inactive when we married. We went back. I have been married 20 years, and while I love my wife very much I would not wish what I have gone through on anyone.

Let your fiance AND her parents know you are not going back to TSCC and why.

Do this BEFORE you get married.

If your relationship survives the fallout, great, if not, a little heartache now is better than a lifetime of it.

JMHO.

Good Luck.

as succinctly has it can be stated.

heartache now for a short period of time or heartache forever.

I think that it is always heartache forever even if you confront the problem now WHERE one spouse is a social mormon. i.e. drawn to it because of social pressure, need to fit in, acceptance by parents and family.

If this is going to be the case, you will always be second to her and she will have to fight to hide it.

Imagine yourself in a few years with a child that needs to be blessed in the mormon church. You won't be able to bless her/him, but Grandpa will, and believe me, he will be pressing for it. When baptism time comes, your wife will surely want to please her parents and have the child baptized. If you live in the same area, they will be sure the children get to Primary activities and that the boy gets to his scouting---in a mormon troop, of course.

Then there's the temple marriage which you probably won't have. That will be brought up time and again, probably very subtly, but it will be in the back of their minds always---wanting you to "take care of it" and get it done the right way.

If their daughter--your girlfriend is being influenced by them now, it will only become stronger when their grandchildren are involved.

It sounds like your girlfriend's bond with her mother is much tighter and more important to her than her bond with you. It will always be that way. If you marry this woman in will be a threesome. Just know it. Maybe a foursome... you, her, the mom and the church.

If she puts a barrier between you and her whenever her family decides that she made the wrong choice with you then you two have problems. You might be able to work those problems out, but maybe not.

If I were in your position I would investigate if this is really the cause and consider moving on.

I was engaged to a jackmo. She could never get past her mom. It was a six year see saw. I finally walked. Damn glad I did.


Is your fiancé mo? Does she know its all horseshit. Has she told her folks in your presence that you both have no intention of being involved in the mo church in any way?

If not, give her one for the road and roll on. She'll hound ya.

It's no win. Good luck.

Let her go or you will be sorry, this is a battle you can't win.

Imagine yourself coming home after a long day's work and having her parents and her cult gang up on you.

Or, imagine wanting to relax on weekends while she is fuming to drag you and the kids to church.

Why do you want to have hell on earth?
Move on and find yourself a lapsed Catholic, or lapsed anything, it will be better than what you are loading on yourself.

How much of that awkwardness is caused by her and how much of it is caused by you worrying because of the past history? (I'm not predicting which one it is - I am just asking a question.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2012 10:07PM by bc.

That is a very good point, and fortunately, I did talk to her about it and she's actually only acting awkward because she doesn't like the way parents react sometimes. The more I talk to her the more I realize that in her heart she is not a Mormon but she is definitely a very good person. I do honestly think that after our close break up about 7 months ago she has been trying to rid herself of her parents influence.

You say, though, you are still worried. Is there more you and she need to talk about?

Possibly, but I often forget that she is one of the most open minded Mormons I've ever known. That's why I feel like there is a chance because she thinks with a more logical mind than any Mormon I've ever known.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2012 12:56AM by nickson.

Get out now. Tough advice, but I wish I'd done that 30 years ago.

Run, don't walk, as far away from this as possible.

Have you had the conversation with your fiance you are having with us? That will be the one that counts the most and will give you a sense of how things will go. Finding out for yourself is better than guesswork. Lay out concerns, needs, and limits and see what happens, even if that is frightening.

RUN LIKE HELL!


I know you don't want to hear it because your in love, but now is the time to GET OUT. I was in your very shoes. After three years and more heart ache than I have ever felt, she gave me the ultimatum, her or the church. This was not the first time, this was the third time. She was the one that always came back. On the third one I knew I couldn't do it any more. I told her she needed some one else that could make her happy. She was married less than 4 months later.


Mormons do not know what love is!

YOu will never be good enough!

Maybe I am wrong, but years from now after you have been treated like a dog and are sick of the bishop running your life, you will say "Son of a @#$%*, I should have listened".

I wish you the very best in life. I know it sucks, but it is not worth the chance.

I ment to say, THe church or else we were Over. You know what I mean.

My sister has 5 kids.

Just today she was telling me that she was going to BEG child #5 (the only single one) to please please please! Pay attention to who his inlaws are. Her other 4 children have inlaws that are making their lives miserable.

So, I have to say, Please, please, please, pay attention to who your inlaws are. You are stuck with them, like it or not. If they don't love you now, chances are, they won't love you later. If they are making you miserable now, they will most likely make you miserable later.

I wish I knew then what I know now about my inlaws. I wouldn't have gone through with it!

LOL this reminds me of an old Steve Martin movie, where he is bound and determined to marry a woman who is clearly wrong for him.

So he talks to his first wife's portrait and the the portrait screams back a loud "Nooooooo!" at him.
So he says "well, I'm glad you're ok with it then."

I can't remember the name of the movie. But I hope you get the point.LOL.
Proceed at your own risk.

Do not marry this woman you will be sorry. You cannot form a relationship with someone that is delusional. Until they quit and quit for good the delusional aspects will influence every aspect of their expectations for the relationship. Even jackmos are a ticking time bomb. Best to love her but leave her so that u are healthy happy and in a respectful relationship. Mormonism has no respect or tolerance for anything but It's own positions. It is not worth what u will put yourself through. I'm going to have to agree with other posters here. Run like hell. And never look back!

you can pretty much count on the fact it'll get worse afterwards.

You two are still in the early stages of your relationship. Even if you've been together for years. Romantic love often makes problems seem smaller than they really are, and people overestimate their ability to change or put up with their partner.

However, in my opinion there shouldn't BE any changing or putting up with your partner. Pick the one you want, and the one who wants YOU the way you are.

Here are the main things I'd be concerned about:

1) She lets her Mom and Dad have too much influence. Do you want the meddling in your life, too? Oh, wait . . . they ARE meddling with it already. It's affecting your happiness and security in the relationship.

2) She seems unreliable and wishy-washy. And I'm guessing this is the result of having controlling parents. That's not her fault, but until she develops the ability to cut the apron strings, decide she wants you and doesn't CARE about their criticisms or approval of you, she's not ready to be married.

3) Do you really want to create a life where her parents and the grandparents of your children? Always judging and pushing an agenda?

I ment to say, THe church or else we were Over. You know what I mean.

You should be worried -- big time!!!

When you marry, you are not just marrying the girl. You are marrying the entire [expletive] family. And you will be setting yourself up for never-ending grief and unhappiness.

You need to face the cold hard fact that you have chosen a girl with whom you will never be happy. Her parents and their religion will ALWAYS be creating problems.

As painful as it may appear to end the relationship now, that is the way to minimize your overall long term unhappiness. If you aren't smart enough to take this action now, I guarantee that the time will come in the future when you will wish you had done this.

This relationship smells of triangulation.

Please Google "triangulation" and "the Karpman drama triangle".

Simplified because I get wordy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2012 12:48PM by WinksWinks.

I disagree. You don't "need" to do anything. I am getting really sick of hearing and seeing people tell other people what they NEED to do. It comes off as really controlling.

Now I do agree that this girl is triangulating and I'm all for reading up on Karpmann's Drama Triangle. But. Instead of telling your GF that "you don't care" what her parents say (please do not allow the words "I don't care" out of your mouth), instead just re-direct the focus of the conversation. Do not respond to Mom's opinion, but ask GF, "Well what do YOU want? What do YOU think?"

Personally, I can't be in a relationship with anyone who can't or doesn't know their own mind and only parrots what other people tell them to think. If she's got thoughts and ideas of her own, she should own up to them and claim them as HER ideas. If she doesn't, then she's probably just parroting.

Whether you should stay with this girl or not is none of my business. I don't know either of you and have no idea what you should do. But anytime a guy I was dating started a sentence with "I don't care..." I heard that as "I don't care about YOU or your opinions or your needs." That doesn't seem like that's the message you want to send.

I didn't say he NEEDED to do anything. Googling was my suggestion.

No one has mentioned this to you but if you think that it is hard to feel like you are going to loose the love you feel between you and your girl, then start thinking about how much it will hurt to loose your chance to be a father to your future children when the marriage doesn't work out. YOU are making a decision right now that will affect the lives of the little guys that you will be more in love with than anyone or anything you have ever experienced in life yet...your children.

If you Marry some girl that you know you have some serious problems with now and you end up tearing your children's family life apart you are going to be going through some seriously depressing torment later. If that is how you see it possibly turning out then don't marry her. Go date some more people who were not raised in a cult and see if you see/feel the difference in the relationship. You owe it to yourself to at least try out different relationships and see what normal is like. (although I don't think there is really a "normal")

Not only this, but if the Mormons get their way, the children will be raised Mormon and will be taught to look down on the non-believing parent with disdain, even worse with an apostate, exclusion from the wedding, not letting your evil rub off on the grandbabies, keep the children at a safe distance, full out shunning.

I can assure you that when you refuse to allow the children to be baptized or attend church services, this will cause problems...big ones...even though she knows where you stand now, and it will be all your fault, because there's no priesthood in the home, no gospel, no tithing, you're not sealed, because you know that temple wedding would have made your marriage perfect and your lives perfect, etc. If she's wishy-washy now, I'd be willing to bet she will slip back on the Mormon bandwagon when the babies come because, as you know, only Mormons have strong values and morals and only Mormons have good, happy families...you will be personally responsible for every tiny thing in your lives that don't go according to plan.

It's something to think about...this level of problems NOW, you have to wonder if it will only get worse later, with pressures of marriage, finances, babies...with the added pressure of "the gospel" and pushy, meddling family.

and engaged to a TBM from a TBM family. I made some overtures to getting back into the church but this didn't last long. I had just gone through a very difficult several years and I wasn't going to repeat it by getting back in. I made it clear I was not going to go back. Fiance was OK up to a point. Her family was not. Long story short: Fiance's mom was friendly with me while dad worked behind the scenes to poison and eventually end the relationship. After a few months I was able to see how lucky I was. She's a great person but it would have been a MESS. We are so lucky we didn't get married and have kids. The divorce to come would have been terrible and the possibility of having kids in the mix would have made it worse.

Think long and hard about this. Her family won't let it go. Can she withstand the pressure? Can you?

Let me be as specific as possible.

This right now is as good as your marriage will ever be. You are both swimming in hormones, which make you feel like your bond is stronger with her than her bond with her family. This is the delusion of infatuation which nature arranges to insure the propagation of the species.

I almost laughed out loud when you wrote that she said, "...because I don't want my family involved." And you thought that settled that.

Here's your future, my friend. You will never be able to work out any problems because all problems will be due to you "not having the spirit." Everything will be blamed on your wife having made the poor decision to marry you. She won't be going to the Celestial Kingdom, won't be with her stalwart mother and father and siblings. And who is the author of that imaginary misery? You.

After the babies arrive, she will cry on your shoulder that she loves you so much and wants you and her and cherub to be together forever and wouldn't you want that too? If you really loved her?

Why are you so hard-hearted?

Because of your apostasy, the real head of your family will be....wait for it...her mother. Her father will wash his hands of the whole mess, but her mother will cry like a fountain at your wedding--not out of happiness but self-pity that her hard work for all those years raising a daughter is now giving her public humiliation. Your fiance was a jewel in her crown and you have turned her into a repudiation of her mother's spirituality. If MIL had been sinless and faithful, her daughter would never have married a non-believer.

MIL will never forgive you for wrecking her Celestial Family trophy moment and her dreams of Family Forever are down the drain because of you.

This is a vendetta worthy of a Mafia family. MIL will tell your daughter to take her child to church when you have planned a family picnic. MIL will tell your wife to stop using birth control without telling you because you are frustrating God's plan.

Daughters get CLOSER to their mothers after they marry. Other posters here will confirm this. Sons get further away.

My advice to you is....run. Do not do this. Exercise some prudence on behalf of the children you will someday be fighting for some time to visit.

Or...find someone who shares your own views and build a TOGETHER IN TIME family.


Anagrammy

People dating do not know what it will be like actually living with the person. Things that cause unease in the other person's behavior can become hateful after marriage, mostly because you are compelled to live with them. You are locked in. You are stuck.

Much better and less painful to break it off now. (Most of the breakup pain will be over in a matter of weeks! Who knew!)

If you do remain engaged to this young woman agree beforehand that you will not begin a pregnancy until you have been married at least 3 years. You will have to take responsibility to see it doesn't happen. Don't let a mistake or a 'mistake' on her part make you a father for the rest of your life.

I've been married to a Jack Mormon for 30 years. I've never joined the church but I came close a couple of time. I have a great marriage and my husband and I are very close. Even so, he has never stopped being disappointed that I can't belive in the mormon doctrine. I've had to live with his disappointment all these years. It sounds like your girlfriend is much more into the church than my husband and you will have to live with her disapointment and your accompanying guilt as long as you are with her. It will get a lot worse if you get married and have kids. And her family will never stop. You will hate it when they make comments about you in front of your kids. If you and your girlfriend love each other enough and can make some ground rules to live by (and actually stick to them) you may have a chance. Good luck with whatever you decide.

What's your planned path forward now? I'm curious.

(Good god I wish I would have taken other people's advise more readily when I was in my twenties, and I wish I wouldn't have been so headstrong. It would have saved me a lot of heartache - and dollars.)