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Posted by: Curious Jack ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:23PM

He was being bullied and made fun off by fellow missionaries And now he got sent home. I thought that kind of crap finished at high school

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Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:25PM

I don't think Mormons tend to grow out of childish bullying.

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Posted by: mav ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 07:42PM


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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:49PM

Oh that's so sad.

;o(

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Posted by: AltaRica ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:53PM

Nope, a mission is just an extension of high school. Naturally the bullying continues there as well.

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Posted by: No Mo ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:58PM


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Posted by: omreven ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 06:57PM

So the solution is to send them younger.

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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 07:02PM


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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 07:24PM

There was a thread not long back about bullying on missions. I posted about a "domestic abuse" type situation that I witnessed among the missionaries. I took it to the MP and he did nothing, which makes him personally guilty also, in my view. Unfortunately, due to the pressure and beliefs force-fed to the missionaries (and other members) the victim (a sister missionary) continued to think it was her fault (as many victims of abuse do, especially when it's part of the religious dogma in which they are involved) and that it was a test she had to pass, no matter how bad the situation got or how ill she became.

I find it appalling that people, no matter how young and inexperienced, would engage in such terrible, even criminal, behaviour towards their fellow missionaries or members, or anyone, especially while engaged in preaching the word to the heathens, so to speak. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about missing the point. Talk about wasting 18 years of supposed lessons on doctrine and practice.

I feel bad for the missionary who had such a bad experience on his mission. I hope the "he got sent home" part isn't the usual connotation, that he was sent home as if he did something wrong, rather than placing the blame where it lies, on the missionary/ies who engaged in such severe bullying that it would lead to him running away, on the MP who didn't step in sooner to solve such a major issue in his mission field, on the church that keeps people at church meetings and activities for much of their lives but never manages to actually teach them the true meaning of Christianity and the reasons why they're on a mission in the first place (something about converting the unwashed, isn't it?).

I also hope that it's a relief for this missionary to be home and that maybe it's the start of his exit from this church into which he was born.

(Yes, I know that other churches have problems, that other Christians fail to live up to the principles, etc. But right now we're talking about Mormonism).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2012 07:26PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 07:27PM

That's an aspect I had never even considered. Wow, that pisses me off. If anything, you would think that would be a place for people to come together during shared misery. And now he has to come home in "shame" because of that? That is massively fucked up. I hope he comes to his senses and resigns someday.

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Posted by: AltaRica ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 09:38PM

Quote taken directly from a post on Alec Ragan's FB timeline made by his mother:

"Alec has been in contact with his mother and he will be returning home from his mission on a medical release."

Good gawd! What are they saying? He had an "anxiety problem" because he couldn't put up with people treating him like sh!t? As if pulling the "medical release" card will stop all the rumors anyway.

Isn't there something in the Articles of Faith about being honest?

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 09:43PM

We know nothing about the missionary before he left on a mission. He may have had some kind of problem before he left.
Plus we don't know the real reason anyone is sent home as they give out only general statements.
A medical release is acceptable.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 09:47PM

It will get worse now that they are sending 18 year olds

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 09:50PM

I'm glad he's quit the mission, but I sure feel sad for him being picked on. He showed a lot of initiative by taking off. I hope he continues the journey.

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Posted by: khark ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 09:56PM

I want to share my bit here. I was naive when I went on a mission. I looked up to leadership and anything with a "calling" was revered. That is what I was back then. I had issues with some companions and appealed to the MP. I was surprised when the MP sided with my comps and not me when the evidence was clearly the other way. I then challenged the MP to pray about it and was surprised to get this response, saying "I don't have to pray about it -- I do what I think is right." Oh wow. Coming from a MP. Congrats. I was still naive. But I learned that day that I will be careful to which leaders I work with rather than with blind obedience all the way. It is scary.

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Posted by: eldorado ( )
Date: November 25, 2012 11:25PM

Poor boy, I cant imagine what he and his mother went through. Its hard enough for bulling to happen in a place where you can at least be there for your child. Good for him for not putting up with it and leaving the situation.

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Posted by: kookoo4kokaubeam ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 09:31AM

I witnessed bullying in the MTC. I couldn't believe it. The more socially awkward or geeky elders were targeted by some and were teased mercilessly.

I also witnessed this - to a lesser degree - in the mission field. Again, the more shy or awkward were either teased or practically became persona non grata in our mission. Our Mission President seemed to gravitate to the more athletically inclined and those with the gift of bravado.

It was all quite eye opening.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 10:39AM


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Posted by: kookoo4kokaubeam ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 04:27PM


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Posted by: fireguy911 ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 07:46PM

If you witnessed bullying, why didn't you step in and help a "brother" out. Just sat on the sidelines?

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Posted by: skeptifem ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 10:28AM

How sad. I bet he will need some kind of therapy but will probably be discouraged from getting it.

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Posted by: dazed11 ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 02:58PM

That makes me so sad. I hate bullies. I guess I really lucked out on my mission because I never saw anything like that. For the most part the mission president also chose the nicest people to be zone leaders and assistants.

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Posted by: Puli ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 03:01PM

Missionaries are so young - practically right out of High School - when they were sent off on missions and now they are right out of High School with the lowering of the age requirement.

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Posted by: captain ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 03:05PM

People are surprised by bullying when you have a group of 19-21 guys together? Lots of bullying on my mission. As a greenie junior companion I wasn't allowed to talk to my ZL only through my senior companion. Guy was a huge dick, so no desire to talk to him anyways.

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Posted by: Inverso ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 03:42PM

This is terrible but pretty much the norm. There was brutal hazing in my mission in Mexico.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 04:30PM

There wasn't much of a hazing problem in my mission, but we did have a problem with bullies. My brother's mission, in Oklahoma in the late 80s early 90s had a problem with a hazing ritual called the embowment. One missionary would hold a greeny down, while another would pull his pants down, then stick their finger up the elders ass hole through the garment bottoms. GAs found out about it and they freaked the hell out, which was good, but not because of the bullying. They were angry because they felt the endowment was being mocked, as well as the garments, plus the homosexuality aspect of sodomy. Bunch of missionaries got sent home and excommunicated over it. What was bad, was that the church went into cover up mode instead of pressing charges.

My brother, then said that the GAs threatened him and all the other elders who were not involved, with excommunication if they ever talked about it. The bullies involved should have all gone to prison for sexual assault, but the church had an image to protect.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 04:32PM

Good lord! That is shocking. Is your brother still a TBM? This should be reported, even today!

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 07:50PM

Similar thing happened at Church College of NZ. A kid had a pencil shoved up his arse.

I think this incident may have helped the cult decide to close CCNZ down. At least the cops were notified.

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Posted by: captain ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 04:39PM

Lots of strange homosexual things on missions. Lots of ass grabbing, rubbing legs etc. I bet missions cause more homosexual behavior than masturbation does like the church professes. Guys act out because they can't do natural things like masturbate or kiss a girl. The biggest problem like Forbidden said is it's done in a violent molesting way. When you suppress natural things at that age it can drive some people crazy.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 07:56PM

According to Boyd KKK Packer, isn't such "rough and tumble" the normal way for red blooded men to interact? I mean if they crave human physical contact during the time they have to go without touching, even themselves, it's better to do it through violent sexual repression than to give each other a cuddle isn't it?

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 04:47PM


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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 06:59PM

There have been a lot of threads about GA's coming to speak to the Elders and end up speaking in a very bullying way as well as Mission Presidents who were bullies too.

The pattern seems to be that the bullies are either protected or encouraged.

During my time at the MTC, we had a problem with some of the districts that contained foreign non-white missionaries who would bully some of the American (and therefore white because this is Mormonism) districts.

If a white missionary fought back - they'd be sent home. The foreign missionaries would not be sent home.

The "reasoning" would be because the foreign missionaries weren't from America - and usually didn't "know better."

It was a very odd sort of racist bullying mixture.

Racism from both the foreign missionaries (it was clear they were targeting white Elders), and racism from the MTC presidencies for lots of different reasons.

There may have been racism from the white Elders - it could easily have been that they STARTED the bullying targeting the non-white Elders, and there was retaliation going on. Not sure. I saw two fights, and only heard things about the fights starting. But I didn't see for myself how the fights started. But I knew that the white Elders went home - the others did not.

But the problem was never really addressed or resolved. Instead it was polished.

The image that Mormons had non-white Missionaries from foreign countries was too good to give up.

And so - certain groups of Elders were given a free pass, and the bullying was never addressed.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 07:58PM

I suspect this Elder in NZ may have been a victim if racism. I saw and experienced it at CCNZ.

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Posted by: joesmithsleftteste ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 08:12PM

Missions are no different than anywhere else - the strong prey on the weak. The main difference is that the strong claim that they're praying for the weak.

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Posted by: wendy ( )
Date: November 26, 2012 09:07PM

Reading all this makes me so sad.

When I was a teenager, my friend's older brother committed suicide while on his mission. It was in the 80's...I'm not sure where he went, but his name was Russel.

I remember being so shocked.

It's hard to think about what could have been so difficult for him to decide that suicide was the only way out.

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