I'll try to make this as short and sweet as possible to bundle up 20+ years experience in and out of Mormonism.

Let me just start by introducing myself. My real name is John, I'm 35, been married for 10 years. I love art of any media, been painting over 15 years personally and professionally. Studied 3d animation and modeling, graphic design, video editing, web design over 10 years. I genuinely care about people. I've worked in a nursing home as an activities therapist and dinning host for 2 years. Worked in different school environments teaching art, creating safe environments and activities for children of all ages for 8 years as a T.A. and child care assistant. I got burned out on that, lost interest in ever becoming an art teacher, due to poor quality of treatment and pay for teachers in general, so I've changed my major to my main focus on 3D modeling and animation, although I still do an awful lot of the other art forms today. I love nature and I was very active in freestyle skateboarding from age 7-22. I competed a lot. Won a lot of competitions, had sponsors, did many demonstrations and I was in a couple t.v. shows and one commercial back in the early 90's. I have a lot to be thankful for, but when it comes to all the blessings and talents "I feel" God has given me, That does not sum up who I am or make the person who I am today. Outer talents never did make someone who they truly are, it only contributes to their overall life experiences.

6 years ago I stood up to bare my testimony about how wonderful it made me feel to help a fellow through a chat room on yahoo who was having drug problems. I had a genuine love and concern for the young man even though I didn't know him. I explained to the congregation how important it was to be careful when talking to people we don't know, while talking on the internet isn't for everyone. Well in a nut shell, my bishop at the time felt it was his duty to get up right after me and reiterate to the congregation and tell everyone how evil it was to chat online and to be very careful. He undermined my wisdom, intentions, demeanor and persona. To top it off, his wife gave the closing prayer and reiterated again in the prayer for everyone to stay away from online chatting. If that wasn't the hugest slap in the face, embarrassment, undermining of someone else intelligence, I don't know what is. Since that day, I felt embarrassed to show my face in church, I felt humiliated and never shared my testimony in any church since then.

Ever since that humiliating day, I lost my trust and respect for anyone in church leadership positions, along with a lot of it's members who have devalued me as a person because I never went on a mission. I was treated very indifferently because of that one reason. To me it's sad when a lot of people will hold someones "works" in higher esteem than a persons heart, mind and soul. So for the past several years, I've studied and researched a lot of the church's history while comparing and contrasting the things that have been told to me that sounded very inconsistent and contradictory. I still hold fast to this day on knowing and feeling for "myself" that there is a caring and loving spiritual entity and those who watch over us each day. I personally don't know if I could ever cope, feeling and thinking that I'm all a lone while attempting to do everything on my own without any kind of moral, spiritual, personal, caring, loving support.

My Dad passed away 4 years ago due to Cancer and shortly after, I completely lost my faith in the Mormon church and others who support it. The main reason for that is, because our visiting teacher at the time saw how badly I was hurting inside from losing my Dad. I'm sure her intentions were well meant, but she mostly took that as an opportunity to try to bring me back to church first, and the pain I was going through came second. She just didn't get it. She is the wife of our stake president at the time to top everything off. Nice lady, good intentions, just not very alert to showing real genuine empathy and understanding toward others feelings, although she tried.

Anyhow, that right there confirmed to me, how insensitive some lds members can be, while their main concern is bringing as many people back to the fold as they possibly can, regardless of their current situations or how they've been hurt or lied to. For the most part, it's (my) feelings that a lot of them, (although not all) place to much emphasis on being "worthy" to receive blessings through "works". Never mind someone's good demeanor and spirit, never mind what kind of person they are inside, never mind how other members words and actions may have hurt them, never mind the church's constant hidden lies and excuses with a hidden agenda through out history. the main thing they're concerned about is maintaining numbers, wealth and power. those are "my" thoughts and feelings on it.

Ok so, I still believe in Jesus and God and I love to express spiritual, philosophical, psychological, positive messages once in a while. that's not what I'm "all" about though. When I do speak, it helps me to understand things better when approached in philosophical, psychological and yes sometimes spiritual tone and demeanor. That works for "me" and I do understand it won't work for everyone. Many will (confuse) that with "preaching" or trying to "sale Jesus", but it's mostly meant for good "Life" principals as non-personal implied suggestions anyone can try out to see if it works for them or not if they "choose" to.

With that said, My wife and I still attend basic Christian church's with a heck of a lot less demands and judgment that we feel is passed on to others in the confines of Mormonism. We both have found a lot of unconditional love, Freedom and Justice in Christianity in comparison to the Mormon church. We both feel much more at home there than we ever have in the Mormonism. I'm just saying that's been "our" experience which has nothing to do with "other" peoples experience or wishes to seek out.

It is my understanding in this forum and other post-mormon, ex-mormon groups that everyone does their best to welcome everyone regardless of belief or background. I also understand that does not excuse anyone from open debate about different beliefs. This next bit I'm going to write is only because I still have some concerns and fears about joining groups like this one with open dialogue debate regarding different beliefs which from one recent past experience tuned ugly quick.

I've had a fairly recent experience over at postmormon.org where I felt I was heavily misunderstood, accused and attacked from various members including some of the moderators, including the vice chairman of the entire group. They thought my entire focus and "agenda" of my short existence there was to try and "sale Jesus" to everyone. I "WASN"T". I was only sharing my personal testimony and I wasn't trying to force anyone to think, feel or believe similarly. My intentions were far from that.

I thought I was going into a group that offered a "safe haven" so to speak for "everyone" (regardless) of background. I was not aware at the time that even just sharing my personal spiritual experiences and testimony would have upset so many as grim reminders of being in church all over again. Too many of them took it way too personal and started attacking me. I went into survival defense mode while deleting all of my posts and changing all of my personal info, including user name only for my own self preservation.

The reason why I did that, is because the first day I was there, I noticed how many people there found pleasure in tearing down other people who didn't agree with them or believe the same as they did while that person was there and even after they left or were banned! It reminded me of a pack of wolves attacking someone and after they were gone, they continued to devour the person, pick him apart and destroy in their own "opinions" who they think that person was all about. To "me" it felt like the moderation was weak, biased and very one sided. It almost felt like joining a fraternity where every new person had to go through the initiation process just to feel accepted. To "me" it felt like going through the "Mormon church acceptance" all over again, but this time surrounded with a lot of hate, anger, bitterness, resentment and lack of trust among the members, including the vice chairman. I even gave a sincere apology while trying to make amends with everyone for the huge misunderstandings on my part. Most people felt bad and apologized for not giving me a chance at first while being pretty harsh toward me, accept for the vice chairman and a few others. To "me", I started to feel that the Mormon church wasn't so bad in comparison, although I still don't like how I was treated in the Mormon church and their made up doctrine and all.

I just hope my experience here will be more Positive, Civil, Understanding, Just, Reasonable, Fair, Non-accusatory and most of all RESPECTFUL than my last experience over at postmormon.org. I don't expect the "Red Carpet" to be rolled out for me or anything like that. I just would like some mutual Respect is all. Thank you for listening.

Welcome to the board! Glad you are out!

Thank you! Me Too!

I think you will find most people will help you here when you are dealing with mormon friends and family members. As long as you keep your own religion out of the conversation you won't get attacked.

Glad your out too :)

Thanks. :)

Its kind of my experience here that if your an atheist you can speak freely about what you believe, but otherwise you need to be quiet about it otherwise people think you are preaching. So I try to not say anything about my faith. It can be very difficult though because my faith is all a part of what its all wrapped up in for me and where I am at now in my mind, as I try and break away. But this board is the closest thing I can get to people who understand me. So there you have it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 05:51PM by suckafoo.

thanks for sharing suckafoo. like it's mentioned in the forum rules, this isn't a place to guarantee anyone feeling comfortable. it's for open dialogue who chooses to learn new things. If it goes against what ever you believe and you no longer want to hear it, then it's up to the person to decide if they want to continue hanging around or not. I just know bottom line, mutual respect should be in order anywhere we go in life. Nobody should be allowed to form their opinion all over someone else without expecting the other person to form an opinion back. It's tough not to form opinions or have it appear to be one when speaking online. I try to do my best to keep it straight forward, simple, stick to facts and helping others discover ways of approaching new things to them. I hope that makes sense.

It does. It's a bit of a walk on the wire at times. I actually learn quite a bit from the atheists here as well as people who believe different things, as they introduce a lot of facts I was unaware of and do a lot of research which I appreciate. The one thing most people here have is compassion for each other, regardless. I'm sensitive to put downs because I am trying to rebuild my self esteem, so I tend to almost be afraid to post at times. One day, I will be stronger and won't care about what is said back to me. So far, no one has said anything to hurt me personally which I appreciate, because I am somewhat fragile right now! Haha! Trying to get stronger.

And I get that part of healing from mormonism is redefining your entire belief system; that's what atheists are doing when they post about their "new world view." But it's a fine line between bearing your testimony and posting philosophical discussions about belief or lack thereof.

suckafoo, I have one thing to say as a good reminder I know anyone should be aware of. It's good to have a thick skin for certain discussions, so that we can discuss matters and situations in a civil way without getting our feelings too involved. You know I've spoken with many believers of all forms and they all have said to me to not trust our feelings alone, because they can deceive you.

Don't confuse trusting your feelings, with your inner senses. If someone is verbally, mentally or physically threatening or abusing you, you've got to be able to discern between the two and set your own boundaries. Don't desensitize yourself so much that you no longer feel or have compassion or trust in anyone. Know what I mean? I've seen a lot of people in pain, grief and bitterness allow themselves to dig themselves deeper into a darker hole than they already once were before they joined some kind of support group that is surrounded by a lot of negativity in it. Sooner or later it becomes too easy to feed off that negativity and depend on that to help us feel like we're surviving. It's good to vent and get it all out on the table and great to find support once in a while, by all means, don't let it bring you down or fully depend on it. We've got to look within ourselves too in order to clearly see the path that feels comfortable and good to us as individuals, not because someone else recommends we do it.

Many who aren't ready to hear the truth, may think honesty is being negative, only because they don't like hearing something that's so foreign to them. Bottom line, each individual person has got to know when and where to draw the line for their own boundaries. It's always good to get out and about and do things that make you feel good as a person, clear your head and rethink the things that help drive your spirit in a positive direction, rather than pull you down. Other words, don't get caught up in a trap if there are times you feel something has become a little too much for you. take things with a grain of salt and in small doses. I think a lot of people can only take so much a little at a time anyway. It's good and healthy to take breaks. Wouldn't want to overload and blow a gasket. lol! I wish you all the best in your spiritual, personal journey as well.

Yes, it is good to have a thick skin.

Welcome! There are a lot of kind, funny, compassionate and intelligent people here.

@ experience: I think I saw this exchange on postmo . . . or parts of it, and I recall it seemed a bit hysterical in places. I feel bad that after somehow making it out of one of the most subtly abusive, dysfunctional and relationship-damaging cults on earth, some people still do not get that any survivor deserves empathy, compassion and the respect that should be accorded to one who has displayed some heavy personal heroism.

I think I understand well the rage and anger, both at the mormon cult and at oneself, that boils up from the realization that one has been "had" for many years.

I suppose it's not a surprise that some people (after going through the mormon hell) freak out when others propose or claim beliefs with a weak evidentiary basis (such as deism, for example). Perhaps they see boards such as this one as a precious lifeline that must be protected against deist belief systems, who knows.

One of the damaging mormon cult legacy paradigms is that any "religion" must be literally TRUE to be valuable, but I tend to see that the scope and breadth of the available spiritual landscape is far richer in many ways than I had ever thought as a mormon.

I welcome your thoughts and look forward to reading more about your journey. Nothing mormons like better than testimonies, ha ha, welcome.

Thank you rodolfo for your support. I try to keep my own comments short and simple and to the point myself, but sometimes find myself in a few paragraphs if i have enough on my mind. Thanks again.

IMHO,if you're only looking for support, you're ultimately going to find this site unsatisfactory. This place is great for those who like to be challenged about what they believe and why they believe it. It is difficult for some of us here to see signs of poor reasoning, and to keep our mouths shut, probably because this is what we experienced in mormonism. If you can read posts that are critical of what you have written, and use it as an opportunity to hone your reasoning and arguing skills, you'll learn a lot.

Shall we give it a try? You said in your original post...

" I still hold fast to this day on knowing and feeling for "myself" that there is a caring and loving spiritual entity and those who watch over us each day."

Why do you suppose that this "entity" is watching over you, while 20,000+ children starve to death every day? Do you think that you're more beloved of this "spiritual entity" than the 7,300,000 children who will die an excruciating death from the lack of food this year? Might it help if you told this entity that while your problems seem difficult, the plight of starving children is infinitely more acute than your situation, and it might use its "magic powers" to help them out first? I look forward to your response, and welcome to the ex-mormon world, where people actually listen to what you say.

sonoma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do you suppose that this "entity" is watching
> over you, while 20,000+ children starve to death
> every day? Do you think that you're more beloved
> of this "spiritual entity" than the 7,300,000
> children who will die an excruciating death from
> the lack of food this year? Might it help if you
> told this entity that while your problems seem
> difficult, the plight of starving children is
> infinitely more acute than your situation, and it
> might use its "magic powers" to help them out
> first? I look forward to your response, and
> welcome to the ex-mormon world, where people
> actually listen to what you say.


I completely get what you're saying, and it has nothing to do with those individuals who have it far worse than others. It's ok to feel blessed and Thankful for the things we have. I have in fact donated money in the past to christian childrens fund to help starving poor children. I felt really good about what ever I could give, but they kept on asking me for more money each month which I could not afford.

The whole point is, no one should ever feel bad or be made to feel bad for what they have been given in their life, but they shouldn't ever take it for granted either. I know I have always had compassion for others for different things, I'm just no super human that is capable of thinking of it all the time, just like everyone else in this world.

Everyone is usually more than capable of taking care of themselves on a daily basis, but when it comes down to it, everyone from time to time, needs some refreshers to help heal themselves from within through different forms of meditation to bring forth rejuvenation. I have found for many years that painting is very therapeutic and spiritually uplifting to me.

Some of my most profound thoughts and inspirational messages and visions have come to me as a result of painting which has brought me into a state of esp. that's a whole other topic though. Thanks for asking and bringing up the caring thought of our less fortunate brothers and sisters on this earth. You know it's interesting, because I've watched a lot of documentaries on poor African tribes on discovery channel. Although they have their own set of struggles, they seem to be very happy to have each other, life and their personal experiences.

Ever heard the term, "Money is the root to all evil"? Also "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?" haha! It's my belief that everyone on earth is here for a purpose and reason, so that we all can help one another learn from each other and give back and contribute what ever gifts, knowledge and talents others may not have or struggle with, whether they are rich, poor, smart in what ever aspect, less smart in what ever aspect, beautiful, not so beautiful, athletic, musically gifted, tech nerd etc. Did I mention in my story how much I enjoyed working with kids who struggled with different type of (politically correct) "Handi-capable" abilities during the 8 years I worked in schools? I learned a lot about unconditional love and compassion just by being around the little boogers. haha! great people!

Other than that, I appreciate your insight and feedback, as long as it doesn't hi-jack and take away from my original message.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 07:56PM by experienceheals.

I don't think that you understood my point. You claimed on your original post...

"I still hold fast to this day on knowing and feeling for "myself" that there is a caring and loving spiritual entity and those who watch over us each day."

So I'm asking you, why that spiritual entity watches over you, someone who lives better that 99.999% of the rest of the world, yet does not relieve the suffering of millions of starving children?

sonoma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMHO,if you're only looking for support, you're
> ultimately going to find this site unsatisfactory.
> This place is great for those who like to be
> challenged about what they believe and why they
> believe it. It is difficult for some of us here to
> see signs of poor reasoning, and to keep our
> mouths shut, probably because this is what we
> experienced in mormonism. If you can read posts
> that are critical of what you have written, and
> use it as an opportunity to hone your reasoning
> and arguing skills, you'll learn a lot.
>
> Shall we give it a try? You said in your original
> post...
>
> " I still hold fast to this day on knowing and
> feeling for "myself" that there is a caring and
> loving spiritual entity and those who watch over
> us each day."
>
> Why do you suppose that this "entity" is watching
> over you, while 20,000+ children starve to death
> every day? Do you think that you're more beloved
> of this "spiritual entity" than the 7,300,000
> children who will die an excruciating death from
> the lack of food this year? Might it help if you
> told this entity that while your problems seem
> difficult, the plight of starving children is
> infinitely more acute than your situation, and it
> might use its "magic powers" to help them out
> first? I look forward to your response, and
> welcome to the ex-mormon world, where people
> actually listen to what you say.


Could you share with us what you have done to help the sick and needy as we discuss the matter over our computers or PDA's that most poor people DON'T have and can't afford?

experienceheals Wrote:
-------------------------------------
>
> Could you share with us what you have done to help
> the sick and needy as we discuss the matter over
> our computers or PDA's that most poor people DON'T
> have and can't afford?

Yes I could, but I'm not going to because its beside the point. I wasn't asking why YOU don't help the starving children, I was asking why your "spiritual entity", the one that YOU CLAIMED watches over you doesn't help the starving children.

sonoma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> experienceheals Wrote:
> -------------------------------------
> >
> > Could you share with us what you have done to
> help
> > the sick and needy as we discuss the matter
> over
> > our computers or PDA's that most poor people
> DON'T
> > have and can't afford?
>
> Yes I could, but I'm not going to because its
> beside the point. I wasn't asking why YOU don't
> help the starving children, I was asking why your
> "spiritual entity", the one that YOU CLAIMED
> watches over you doesn't help the starving
> children.


and I answered both your questions. It sounds like you're trying to "Correct" the way I worded my own personal belief, while taking it out of context. If you're going to Troll my post, I'd appreciate it if you'd take it some where else. My points were clear and "were" the point. When people are inspired to step outside themselves, they will feel charity to help and give to others instead of bickering and complaining about it. Who are you to try to justify my beliefs, who I am and what I hold close to as good?

Please think about how you approach others in your questions, because as I said before, and someone else mentioned before, it's all about mutual respect. I understood everything you asked. Are you understanding your actions and your approach toward me? Maybe start by working on yourself instead of trying to bring others to justice. Thank you for your time, but I'm no longer interested in your attempt to instigate an argument where there's no need for one.

It's actually very rude to question someones good intentions when it clearly has nothing to do with you. I'd appreciate it if you'd back off now. If you choose to continue attacking a part of who I choose to be, I'll take it to the moderators because I will not go through the same stuff people treated me like at postmormon.org

My take is that people on this board don't like to be dictated to in terms of religious belief, or lack thereof. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. "Jesus inspires me" will work just fine, but "Jesus is the (only) way" will most likely draw ire.

Mutual respect is the name of the game. I've learned things from board members who are atheists. They've taken my thinking in new directions, and that's okay.

and vice versa. hopefully everyone can have an open mind and heart to learn from one another. Everyone should have something to offer. It's from my experience and observation among others, the moment anyone starts to think it's ok to "correct" someone else through aggressive, assertive, opinionated words, beliefs while having no regard for the person they are speaking to, does very little good on both sides. You're right. Mutual respect is important, as I've mentioned earlier. Thank you for your feedback.

It sounds to me that you have given much thought to what you believe and I look forward to reading what you have to say.

I can tell you from experience that many of the atheists will swarm like vultures, though, if they get the sense that you are preaching about God. Just be forewarned and recognize that as what happens here, so you do not take it too personally.

Beware of the goddamn ex-momo atheists. For some reason they don't accept personal testimonies as fact. They never believe you when you explain that you KNOW something because it makes you feel good inside. They even make you *gasp* use your brain. WHAAAA! WHAAAA! WHAAAA!

Oh my. That sounds a bit like you are saying if you believe in God you aren't using your brain and are incapable of reasoning things out. This article from 2008, a study indicated 92 percent of Americans believe in God. So I guess there are a lot of stupid Americans. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh my. That sounds a bit like you are saying if
> you believe in God you aren't using your brain and
> are incapable of reasoning things out. This
> article from 2008, a study indicated 92 percent of
> Americans believe in God. So I guess there are a
> lot of stupid Americans.
>

yes Suckafoo, this country is FILLED with blithering idiots.

And frankly, I don't know if believers are INCAPABLE or merely UNWILLING to use their brains. Luckily for them, they live in The United States of America, and thus DO NOT need my permission to be a rube and a sucker, twice over. By the way, I know this from my own experience as a rube and sucker, twice over.

Lol! Talk to the hand, mista man! And don't get your garmies in a bunch.

Sonoma's been reported for hi-jacking, trolling the topic I started while belittling and taking my demeanor out of context into his own interpretation, whom also said "welcome to exmormon world where people actually listen to what you say" and suckafoo please don't feed the wolves, it only encourages them to come back for more. I especially don't want it done on my story. Thank you very much. I'm open for discussion, as long as it's not taking away from the original topic. Lets respect the rules that were clearly layed out in this forum.

Did sonoma get kicked off the site? I hope not because I enjoyed his other postings. I can see that he derailed the topic here but I hope he's not gone for good.

I removed my comment here too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 10:58PM by suckafoo.

Well actually Sonoma's point is a good one and I really don't think any of the posts were meant to be demeaning.

Remember, most of us here have suffered considerably from lies and from our own poor due diligence. As for me, I don't think I am reaching to say that while I welcome your ideas and every refugee from the dungeons of mormonism, I would prefer to not spend too many remaining hours of my life dealing with faith-based propositions that do not have much reasonable evidence.

I am perfectly fine observing the 11th article of faith, however my own preference is to see the preponderance of faith-based (non evidence based) religious discussions remain on the NOM site or other site devoted to examinations of that sort.

Please understand that to many of us here, refugees from lies, fairy tales and perverted abuse of the concept of "known truth" (as in, "I know its true from the bottom of my heart"), the casual casting about of concepts such as the all-caring skydaddy or the subjective feeling about this or that as evidence of a cosmic truth is about as welcome as a Girls Gone Wild video at group therapy for rape victims.

Sonoma has a great line "welcome to the ex-mormon world, where people listen to what you say." I want to be heard when I post, but I also drink deeply from the well of accountability, where I can have my ideas challenged and scrutinized, where I can exorcise the demons of irrational belief and magical thinking from my existence, where I can develop in a world of adults.

Rather than fight it, I would urge you to hold on to it as a lifeline.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 12:43AM by rodolfo.

rodolfo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well actually Sonoma's point is a good one and I
> really don't think any of the posts were meant to
> be demeaning.
>
> Remember, most of us here have suffered
> considerably from lies and from our own poor due
> diligence. As for me, I don't think I am reaching
> to say that while I welcome your ideas and every
> refugee from the dungeons of mormonism, I would
> prefer to not spend too many remaining hours of my
> life dealing with faith-based propositions that do
> not have much reasonable evidence.
>
> I am perfectly fine observing the 11th article of
> faith, however my own preference is to see the
> preponderance of faith-based (non evidence based)
> religious discussions remain on the NOM site or
> other site devoted to examinations of that sort.
>
> Please understand that to many of us here,
> refugees from lies, fairy tales and perverted
> abuse of the concept of "known truth" (as in, "I
> know its true from the bottom of my heart"), the
> casual casting about of concepts such as the
> all-caring skydaddy or the subjective feeling
> about this or that as evidence of a cosmic truth
> is about as welcome as a Girls Gone Wild video at
> group therapy for rape victims.
>
> Sonoma has a great line "welcome to the ex-mormon
> world, where people listen to what you say." I
> want to be heard when I post, but I also drink
> deeply from the well of accountability, where I
> can have my ideas challenged and scrutinized,
> where I can exorcise the demons of irrational
> belief and magical thinking from my existence,
> where I can develop in a world of adults.
>
> Rather than fight it, I would urge you to hold on
> to it as a lifeline.

I tend to get my hackles up when someone demands that I justify something. I got into it with him on another thread when I said that no one should be required to justify their feelings and beliefs. I think that goes for believers and non believers as well.It is personal. If you want to ask, ask nicely, don't demand and understand that no one has to answer. I wouldn't feel an obligation to tell a poster how much I do to feed the poor either.I guess for me it is a matter of, "Hey, how did that become any of your business?" I can understand where the OP was coming from. I think the question could have been asked in a less demanding way. On the other hand, you can report someone without telling everyone about it. Just click on report and give your reasons.The rest of the board doesn't have to know. JMO

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tend to get my hackles up when someone demands
> that I justify something. I got into it with him
> on another thread when I said that no one should
> be required to justify their feelings and beliefs.
> I think that goes for believers and non believers
> as well.It is personal. If you want to ask, ask
> nicely, don't demand and understand that no one
> has to answer. I wouldn't feel an obligation to
> tell a poster how much I do to feed the poor
> either.I guess for me it is a matter of, "Hey, how
> did that become any of your business?" I can
> understand where the OP was coming from. I think
> the question could have been asked in a less
> demanding way. On the other hand, you can report
> someone without telling everyone about it. Just
> click on report and give your reasons.The rest of
> the board doesn't have to know. JMO


Thanks for understanding. and yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I feel an urge to report someone for completely going off on me, being belligerent and not very reasonable because someone else isn't choosing to think and feel as they do.

rodolfo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sonoma has a great line "welcome to the ex-mormon
> world, where people listen to what you say."


That was the whole point, I thought it was sooo funny he was th first person to say that to me after joining, yet he wasn't doing a very good job at listening himself. LOL!


> Rather than fight it, I would urge you to hold on
> to it as a lifeline.

Oh no, I don't fight things that I know aren't true. I'm actually a pretty logical thinker when it comes to a lot of things. I do however hold onto good, uplifting, spiritual experiences in my life which have really happened and they weren't just a figment of my imagination either. It deals with esp, premonitions, spiritual experiences out side of church that came true in my personal life which confirmed to me the power of the mind through a 6th sense does exist. I might share those save those true stories for another day.

experienceheals-

I 110% agree with your thoughts about the church. The Morgbots are all about feeding The Machine. They invest all their time in the church and as a whole do very little to better the less fortunate or make a difference in this world. They become numb to others thoughts and feelings--they are part of the morg collective--and this makes them seem really insensitive to anyone that doesn't share their worldview.

Anyways welcome to the forum! Please DO share your thoughts and insights! I look forward to hearing them.

Pro tip- If you think someone is detracting from your post just don't bother replying to them next time and don't take it personally, this is the Internet =)

anon Wrote:
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> experienceheals-
>
> I 110% agree with your thoughts about the church.
> The Morgbots are all about feeding The Machine.
> They invest all their time in the church and as a
> whole do very little to better the less fortunate
> or make a difference in this world. They become
> numb to others thoughts and feelings--they are
> part of the morg collective--and this makes them
> seem really insensitive to anyone that doesn't
> share their worldview.
>
> Anyways welcome to the forum! Please DO share
> your thoughts and insights! I look forward to
> hearing them.
>
> Pro tip- If you think someone is detracting from
> your post just don't bother replying to them next
> time and don't take it personally, this is the
> Internet =)


Thanks. What is morgbots short for? also I wasn't taking his comments and questions personally at first. I felt his first question was valid and reasonable, but when I didn't give him the answer he was looking for to satisfy his own selfish thoughts and beliefs, he threw a fit. I think I maintained my composure pretty well actually. I just don't want to waste my time with people who are gonna act like loons in my face and all. It also makes sense in the forum rules where they say, "if it's something you wouldn't say to someone in a grocery store, don't say it here." I have to agree with that and makes sense, although it's easy to forget sometimes.

I'm sure Sonoma, is that his user name? isn't a bad guy, just probably spends too much time on the internet and would do him some good if he got outside for some fresh air and spent the better of his time on a hobby or something, instead of going around being destructive like that. Anyway, thanks.

experienceheals Wrote:
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> I'm sure Sonoma, is that his user name? isn't a
> bad guy, just probably spends too much time on the
> internet and would do him some good if he got
> outside for some fresh air and spent the better of
> his time on a hobby or something, instead of going
> around being destructive like that.


Uncalled for.

I'm beginning to wonder who's the troll in this exchange.

And there was definitely no need to tell the whole board you reported Sonoma. Sheesh!

Lots of people on this board are not good at listening or reading posts. It is easier to assume they know what you mean without going to the trouble of reading. Assumption is a lot less taxing.It is annoying but it is a fact of the board.

bona dea Wrote:
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> Lots of people on this board are not good at
> listening or reading posts. It is easier to assume
> they know what you mean without going to the
> trouble of reading. Assumption is a lot less
> taxing.It is annoying but it is a fact of the
> board.

yep, it doesn't just happen on the internet. i come from a family full of assumers most of my life. I have to practically shout at them sometimes until they finally listen and understand what I'm saying. they haven't done that in a long time and thankfully I don't have to listen or talk to them very much anymore. It gets a bit aggravating after a while feeling like you're not being heard. lol! Glad there are people out there with good listening ears on. :)

You are going to find there are people here who will get in your face more than Sonoma did if you say the wrong thing. I'd be careful not to preach, but also stand up for yourself and just learn to ignore a few. Sometimes that is hard to do.

bona dea Wrote:
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> You are going to find there are people here who
> will get in your face more than Sonoma did if you
> say the wrong thing. I'd be careful not to preach,
> but also stand up for yourself and just learn to
> ignore a few. Sometimes that is hard to do.

yeah. I used to be very touchy about the slightest thing that sounded hypocritical in anyone's testimony in the Mormon church. there were times that I wished I could run up to the pulpit, grab the mic and tell him/her how wrong they were for saying what they said. But it wasn't my place to do so. It took a lot of patience and tolerance on my part to not want to do that. I finally just got sick of supporting my wife's choice to go to church with her, just to appease her interest. I was going and feeling pissed off every Sunday, rather than feeling good about being there. I'll keep that in mind for sure and think of it as that equivalent feeling toward others while speaking here. I completely understand. I didn't like it much, and it still aggravates the $h!t out of me when there's those mormon ads and leaders speaking on youtube and there's not much I can say or do about it if someones blocking comments. lol! I've just learned that people are going to be people, and we can't force others to make choices or believe the way we'd like. It's all about free agency, freedom and justice.

is a dodge that won't work. Giving your power away to outsiders will leave you weak and drained and always on the defensive. Just saying....

sonoma Wrote:
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>Re: Bona Dea, I hope that you'll take a look at my posts here again and see if I was really unreasonable.
> n/t

Look man! Don't try to seek justice on my story where you clearly were out of line from the get go trying to call me out on something and question my good will and intentions. You're way out of line for even continuing to ask. How would you like it if someone came onto your intro page, just sharing your story and that person tread all over you just after pouring your heart out in hopes to be welcomed? You wouldn't like it. So don't do it to anyone else, or here! You're being rude now. If you want to try to make amends with someone, do so, but please don't try to prove a point that is clearly a selfish way of approaching it at someone elses expense. I would be glad to have our tirade against one another over and done with, because it gets neither of us anywhere lashing out at each other. Can we agree to disagree and at least try to get a long? For Christ sake.