That he could suffer for our sins so that we didn't have to. Not that he became a sinner - just that he took the punishment. But what really bugs me is, despite Mormons claim to believe this "truth" with all their hearts, they seem to think Jesus was a slacker. That what he did somehow wasn't enough - that the world still needs MORMONS to finish the job by baptisms for the dead and good old fashioned hard work. Good thing we have Mormons, since they obviously agree that the atonement was a joke too. They'll fix everything for us. (Heavy sarcasm)
When you think about it, why does pain/blood/suffering required as payment for wrongdoing. Is it apples and apples - you sin, someone sins on you?
That makes no sense since two wrongs don't make a right.
This is a serious question here-- why does an all-powerful Diety require anyone to die or suffer for sins? Of course, the answer is he does not, but WE NEED IT.
The carrot is not enough, we need the stick.
In my life experience so far, the most long-lasting lessons have come with seeing the true consequences of the pain I've caused, not because someone hurt me so now I regret what I did.
I understand the psychology of an Atonement in that some people are so guilt-ridden they have to be constantly reminded that someone good already "Paid the Price". I am questioning the spirituality and even the effectiveness of the ledger system.
It doesn't seem loving or necessary for a Diety who can see into my heart. God knows your thoughts, every hair on your head, of course he would know if your repentence is sincere.
Just doesn't make sense to me. So I'm open, share with me your ideas on this one, please.
As an hypothetical example, if I were to kill someone and I could get someone to suffer the punishment, then I don't have to suffer the punishment?
It makes no sense. Christ's suffering should not absolve me of responsibility for my actions any more than someone else going to jail absolves a criminal of any crimes.
that is actually an excellent point. According to the story, God did withdraw his spirit for a moment or two on the cross but considering the sins of the world, it wasn't much of a shunning
Once I realized that Evolution was real, I realized that there was no literal Adam and Eve. Therefore, there was no Fall. No Fall, no need for a Saviour. So, if Jesus did exist, and many archaeologists believe he did, I believe him to have simply been a man. A religious leader, perhaps, but just a man. Or he could simply be a myth. It's impossible to say at this time.
When I was TBM, it used to upset me. It set up such a guilt complex inside me, that I was like, "Well, who asked you to do that for me. I can suffer my own consequences, thank you very much." I didn't like that I was guilted into behaving, just because he supposedly did this great thing for me and I was causing him even more suffering if I didn't accept it, and do so graciously.
It requires an extra heapin' helpin' of suspension of disbelief, and in the end the supposed transference can not be substantiated nor explained except from an appeal to fantasy.
Timothy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > All too often, ordinary combat soldiers die > horribly for the freedom and well-being of others. > > > Funny that god and JuHEEsus never show-up when > those particular chips are down. > > Don't mind taking the credit though. > > Timothy
Maybe they do, Timothy? Or is that the 60% Cask strength whisky talking? Maybe.;o))
Hey, here's one for ya! I ended up marrying the daughter of my late dad's Regimental Sergeant Major!
its so profound that it can not be comprehended ! & even though there is no hope of ever understanding it or fully appreciating it we must never stop studying it & trying to understand it.
Thank God for this wonderful gift.... that put me in debt to some one before I was ever born.