I am semiactive nonbeliever, but my husband is a believer and active, though more of a jack mormon because of me. I have a 6 year old daughter that loves church. She always talks about Jesus, and how Jesus doesn't like us drinking coffee, tea, and all the other rules. When ever she is with her grandma, they play church games, and read church books.

Yesterday, my daughter asked me if my sister goes to church and reads her scriptures (she doesn't). My response was, "Jesus loves all of us and doesn't care if we go to church. What he cares most about is how we treat others. What's most important is that we're kind." (That's how I always respond to her Jesus claims). Her response, "No, what's most important is the temple, and reading the scriptures because that is how we talk to god." When I asked who told her this, she said Grandma. I told her Grandma doesn't know very much about Jesus, in which she responded that Grandma knows the most.

This isn't the first conversation like that. I am frustrated. Because I don't talk about Jesus all the time, according to her, I know nothing about Jesus, but Grandma knows everything because that's all she talks about.

I can't take her out of Primary, because she loves it so much and my husband wouldn't allow it.

What should I do?

The good news is that I have a 4 year old son that hates primary, and so he doesn't attend. My husband and I agree that the kids can decide on church, but my daughters chooses to go.

I don't see a happy ending if you thought your daughter wouldn't be affected by Mormonism. She's only 6, and as she becomes exposed to more people who don't think like she does, she will have to relax about her religious views. I don't know if your husband would agree to having your family attend different kinds of religious meetings in your area. Is he a "mama's boy"? Is it Mormonism or nothing? From your post I'm reading, this is between you and your husband, and how you had agreed to raising your children. It might be best to wait it out for now!

Mrs. Estzerhaus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see a happy ending if you thought your
> daughter wouldn't be affected by Mormonism. She's
> only 6, and as she becomes exposed to more people
> who don't think like she does, she will have to
> relax about her religious views. I don't know if
> your husband would agree to having your family
> attend different kinds of religious meetings in
> your area. Is he a "mama's boy"? Is it Mormonism
> or nothing? From your post I'm reading, this is
> between you and your husband, and how you had
> agreed to raising your children. At any rate, if she were my daughter, I wouldn't let her talk about me or my sister like that, but that's because I believe Jesus is a trouble-making myth. I'd ask her if she believes snakes can talk & dead people come back to life. It's never too early to get children to be skeptical.

YOU are this child's parents NOT her grandmother. She is breaking some serious boundaries by teaching her things that her parents are responsible for teaching her about. My mother did the exact same thing with my son at that age. My husband and I talked to her several times about the fact that WE were his parents and if she was going to continue to do and say things to our son that we, as his parents, were responsible for especially if it went against what we wanted, then she would no longer be able to see us or our son. She couldn't honor that request. My mother thought that she knew best when it came to my own son and couldn't handle just playing the grandma role. We finally had to cut all ties with her.

You need to take control and tell Grandma that she is overstepping boundaries and that talking to your child about religion or ANYTHING ELSE that is a PARENT'S right and responsibility, is not acceptable and that if she continues to cross those boundaries, she will be spending less and less time with her granddaughter. She needs to know that you are serious about it and that you are willing to go as far as not letting her be around your daughter at all if she can't respect your wishes as a parent.

What you and your husband agree to do in respect to religion, is between the two of you and your responsibility as parents, NOT grandma's. It is disrespectful of her to parent your daughter!

June Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am semiactive nonbeliever, but my husband is a
> believer and active, though more of a jack mormon
> because of me. I have a 6 year old daughter that
> loves church. She always talks about Jesus, and
> how Jesus doesn't like us drinking coffee, tea,
> and all the other rules. When ever she is with her
> grandma, they play church games, and read church
> books.
>
So basically, her relationship with her grandma is centered on church things and perhaps she thinks that she has to like church to get attention from Grandma.

> Yesterday, my daughter asked me if my sister goes
> to church and reads her scriptures (she doesn't).
> My response was, "Jesus loves all of us and
> doesn't care if we go to church. What he cares
> most about is how we treat others. What's most
> important is that we're kind." (That's how I
> always respond to her Jesus claims). Her response,
> "No, what's most important is the temple, and
> reading the scriptures because that is how we talk
> to god." When I asked who told her this, she said
> Grandma. I told her Grandma doesn't know very much
> about Jesus, in which she responded that Grandma
> knows the most.
>
I think the problem here is validating the idea that anyone speaks for Jesus. Truth is that probably NONE of you claim to speak directly to Jesus, but are just speaking of your own beliefs. But I can see how that might mislead a child into thinking that Jesus is an actual person who adults know and converse with. I think you need to call into question the claim that anyone knows what Jesus (an invisible and silent being, who died 2000 years ago) wants.

Why can't He speak for Himself? And how come everybody has a different opinion about what Jesus wants?

I think it's time to stop the appeal to authority (Jesus)and talk about ethics with her. Does attending meetings and reading books make you a better person? Why would Jesus CARE if you drink coffee? And even if he DID care, isn't it your choice? (And Jesus never mentioned dietary restrictions in the Bible. In fact, he said that it was was comes out of the body, and NOT what goes in that corrupts a person. That sounds like defiance of the Mosaic Law to me . . . so why would he create new dietary restrictions with the W of W?)

And let's not forget to ask her why she thinks Grandma knows the most? If Grandma is undermining the you, and trying to indoctrinate your child, then she really doesn't need to have free access to your children.

> This isn't the first conversation like that. I am
> frustrated. Because I don't talk about Jesus all
> the time, according to her, I know nothing about
> Jesus, but Grandma knows everything because that's
> all she talks about.
>
It sounds like it's time for you to teach some respect to your child and to talk to Grandma. You don't want her creating a mouthy little monster out of your daughter.

> I can't take her out of Primary, because she loves
> it so much and my husband wouldn't allow it.
>
Maybe you can't take the little one out of Primary, but you can probably take the primary out of her. I would just ask her every week what they learned and do a little subtle deprogramming (ask a few questions to get her thinking . . . why this? what about that? Do you think that really happened? Is that the way things happen today? How do you feel about that? Would you do it that way if you made the rules?)

> What should I do?

SET BOUNDARIES with Grandma.
>
> The good news is that I have a 4 year old son that
> hates primary, and so he doesn't attend. My
> husband and I agree that the kids can decide on
> church, but my daughters chooses to go.


Since one of you is in and one is out, I can see why you let the kids decide. It's more important right now to keep your marriage intact and maybe your husband will come along. But longterm, I don't really think it's okay to let other people decide what your kids are going to believe, and to set them up to disrespect you. They are being filled up with superstitious stories, judgementalism, and possibly the seeds for future guilt and perfectionism. They need someone to guide them so they won't be sucked in.

Maybe you need to talk more about Jesus and your views of him. Tell her some simple stories about him and make the obvious conclusions. Get her a book of Bible stories and point out how Jesus was non judgmental, drank wine and hung out with sinners. In the meantime, tell grandma to knock it off.

I am a grandma. I answered my grandchild's questions about whether God exists or not--and said, "I do not think he exists, but not everybody thinks this way. Some people do think he exists".

My daughter later asked me not to say anything about god until she had a chance to talk to her son.

My daughter and I are in disagreement about god (I don't believe, she does). She said whatever her child hears first, he tends to believe. And she wants to be the one talking to her child about god and religion.

I said, sure no problem. Sorry if I caused an issue. I was answering his question, but I see your point. And it will not happen again. And it hasn't. She is the mom and whatever she asks me to do regarding her child, I will do it exactly the way she asks me.

She has told her child what she believes and said "some people, like grandma, do not look at things the way I do".

Later when my grandson asked me about god again, I called my daughter and asked her if it was now OK to tell him what I thought. She said, "I already talked to Billy and told him what I wanted to tell him about god. You should just tell him what you think". So then I did. But I wanted to be darn sure I wasn't crossing any boundaries before I said anything.

Your child's Grandma needs to back off. I'd have a, no pun intended, 'come to Jesus' talk with her tout de suite.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 04:05PM by libby.

You have a 6yr old saying this "No, what's most important is the temple, and reading the scriptures because that is how we talk to god. Is she turning in to your mother time to tell grammy no more. " I have 6 grandkids their to have fun with and play with , Mom and Dad do the talking about church and sex not me and grandad.

June Wrote:
> What should I do?


I'm an atheist from a non-religious family. When I was 7 I begged and begged my parents to let me go to church.

Summarized as:

Me: Mom, I wanna go to church?

Mom: You can when you're 18.

Me: But Mom, I really, really, really wanna go!!

Mom: Hmmm... why do you want to go? Do you believe in god?

Me: No but I want to join the choir.

Mom: You hate singing?! Why do you want to join the choir?

Me: I want to wear one of those black choir robes!!!

Mom: How about I make you a count dracula cape?

Me: WOW!!!

Never again did I inquire about church and I freakin' LOVED my cape. ;-)

Moral of the story: I didn't want to go to church, what I really wanted was a black cape - but in my weird, 7 year old mind, I equated 'going to church' with 'access to those black robes I wanted so bad'.

My mom had to peel me like an onion to figure out what was going on in my head.

Perhaps your daughter associates church/jesus/god with emotions/qualities that could be met elsewhere?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 04:38PM by spaghetti oh.

You're Mom was really good with you. Congrats on having a good Mom.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Tell her Grandma has a lot of wrong ideas about Jesus, and the temple's weird and boring, and people can't go if they don't pay their tithing, but Jesus didn't think people should have to pay to go to temple. And why does talking to God have to involve reading. You can't just talk to him? That's dumb.

I wouldn't try to set Grandma straight because then she'll play the martyr and make you out to be the bad guy. If it were my daughter, I'd just always matter-of-factly tell her a story that's different from grandma's, like the one above, emphasizing that the church just wants Grandma's money.

Maybe Grandma will catch a clue, maybe not. Just model truthfulness and skepticism. It will stick.

:-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 04:42PM by munchybotaz.

Maybe sit down with your daughter and together read Matthew 19:16-21 ("You shall love your neighbor as yourself" is in here). Talk about what Jesus said, emphasizing that *Jesus* said it. Then ask her if Jesus mentioned temples. Go from there.

I'm atheist, so grain of salt and all that.

Some kids are more intellectual, others are more emotion-driven. Your daughter sounds like one of the latter group. For generations, the LDS Church has SYSTEMATICALLY indoctrinated children to believe its nonsense (e.g., Jesus was the Son of God, worked 'miracles', was crucified, rose from the dead, etc.; Joseph Smith was a 'true prophet of God'; the BoM is 'true'; etc./ad nauseum).

Cultic Mormonism SYSTEMATICALLY 'programs' young people to believe that demonstrable nonsense is 'true', while truth (facts) that conflict with church doctrines and teachings are suspect at best and to be ignored, trivialized or condemned at worst. You're daughter is already starting to show the dysfunctional psychological effects of systematic Morg indoctrination and Mormon 'programming.' Her little, forming ego is already mentally shutting out 'infidels' (non-'righteous' people who don't attend LDS temples and otherwise are 'less' than 'faithful' Latter-day Saints).

Obviously, your daughter gets 'Brownie (approval) points' from Grandma for mentally regurgitating - without scrutiny - 'right' LDS thinking.

Here's info. about how cultic Mo-ism 'programs' people: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

Now is the time in your daughter's young life to intervene. She'll probably 'hate' you for doing so, but you need to ensure that she does not participate in cultic Mormonism. As others have pointed out, make it clear to Grandma that she's to keep her religious beliefs to herself, otherwise you'll be forced to not allow your daughter to spend time with her. Tell Grandma as well that if you find out that she has not respected your wishes in this matter, that'll be it in terms of contact (until your daughter is legally an adult and can choose whom she'll have contact with). Tough words and potential action, but 'brainwashed' Mormons typically need things spelled out for them in big 'letters.'

You're going to have to be firm and have a tough skin on this one. What is at stake is your daughter's psychological well-being for not only the rest of her formative years, but if she continues in be indoctrinated in Mormonism or otherwise exposed to nonsensical LDS teachings and beliefs, she'll only move further down the path of psychological dysfunctional (unconsciously shutting out 'faith-disrupting' facts, thus betraying her rational mind) that cultic Mo-ism psychologically pushes people along.

A list of several dozen symptoms of psychological dysfunction caused by LDS 'programming' is online at http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/symptoms.htm

You can also confront your daughter with 'faith-disrupting' facts (via questions) such as:

Did you know that according to the church's magazine for adults, the Ensign, Joseph Smith used his hat to 'translate' the BoM? (Search for recent posts done by me on this board with links that provide details.)

Did you know that Joseph Smith, the first prophet and president of the church, disobeyed God many times and married other men's wives as well as women who weren't married and girls young enough to be his daughters? (Details are in my posts)

Asking these questions and presenting the facts will hopefully get your daughter to start doubting the 'goodness' that she perceives - due to her very limited, ignorant, and emotion-driven perspective, wrapped up, as it is, with 'do-no-wrong' Grandma - in relation to the Mormon Church.

Good luck!

My mom kept showing them those living scriptures movies. I had told her it needed to stop or they wouldn't be allowed at her house again unsupervised. She couldn't promise that she would refrain from church things with them. In her mind she thinks she is the grandparent and should be religiously educating my children since we won't. So they are not allowed out there without us anymore. I told her it was very telling to her grandkids. She doesn't get it.

In your case because of your DH I would just try not to have them go out there by themselves. Make up excuses why. Get a friend that has your back as far as watching the kids in these situations.

Can you get your husband to back you, and to help you teach your daughter, as a couple?

Get more involved with your daughter's scriptural understanding, especially about the Jesus character. Maybe read the New Testament, or a kid's version, together? Bible trumps Grandma as the authority?