Hi all,

I'm a 17 year-old guy from Toronto, born into a family of TBM's. I've had my doubts about TSCC for a while, and after reading wikipedia articles and later posts on this site I've made up my mind that I'm part of a cult.

I know it's hard to leave when I'm still young and dependent on my parents - and my TBM younger brothers will be shocked and perhaps disappointed - but I really don't want to attend this cult any longer.

And it isn't even the doctrine that I find disturbing... it's also the things that go on in the temple (yes, I've read things) and even the daily early-morning seminary/brainwashing I attend is affecting my grades.

I still go to church each Sunday, seminary, and mutuals and other activities. I'd pass if I could, but my parents force me to go.

How do I break the ice to my parents and tell them that I no longer want to be part of the cult? I don't want to tell them that I've been reading "anti" literature, I want them to know that for me the whole concept of the cult disturbs me.

Thanks to all who will reply.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 09:03PM by 2humble4u.

Are you sure you want to do that? Is it so urgent that you can not wait until you're on your own?

The reason I ask is that it would be tragic if your future success in life were to be ruined by some overzealous reaction on the part of your parents, before you have to opportunity to physically fend for yourself and determine your own course in life.

Sometimes it is better to keep quiet, keep your head down, keep moving toward independence, and organize your exit to be on your time and your dime so that you won't face any backlash other than social/familial.

It isn't that urgent, I mean I'm not going to die from it or anything. But it's just that I'm completely fed up with TSCC but I don't really know what to do about it... You're right, I don't think I'll leave just yet but for the interim do you have any suggestions for what I can do to make sure that cult doesn't impact my life more than is necessary?

I know that much of what you're going through feels like you're just filling time. But as much as it feels they still own your body, always remember that your mind is free!

Start redirecting your interests and focus on your future! You will be doing so many exciting things in your life in the next four years - possibly leaving home, going to university, starting work.

You can be "daydreaming" and making those plans during stupid seminary class instead of trying to please some silly dingbat seminary teacher.

Practice saying "no." When someone from church tries to shanghai you into some silly activity that you have no interest in - "no." When the bishop demands that you fill out your mission papers - "no." When your parents think you should give up your college dreams for a mission - "no."

It gets easier to reject that which you do not want in your life the older you get. I know that sounds like cold comfort now, but it sure does sweeten it when you do it later!

Thanks so much for your insight, xyz! It's funny, this is my first time coming out as a closet exmo (is that the correct term?). You've given good advice and I think I'll hold onto it... btw for the last few weeks I've been making seminary more interesting by asking the teacher questions I'm not supposed to ask, (other students are starting to catch on and take my lead) but I'm running low on steam at the moment. Do you have any suggestions? We're studying the NT right now, if that helps.

Get good marks, extracurricular, jobs - plan 4 future

I left home when I was 17, almost 18, to go to university. I was TBM then and got a small scholarship and student loans to leave home and go to university.

I didn't leave home to get away from Mormonism but to get away from my parents who didn't get along at home and fought too much. I wanted a quiet, peaceful place to live.

Unfortunately, when I left home, I felt very alone and confined because back then, I thought I had to stick to Mormon-only friends and attended the local ward which only had a few goofy/strange guys to date. I was not very excited about church, even though I still thought I had to attend and continue to "be active."

I became depressed, and a year later transferred to BYU (big mistake!) so I could be around a wider pool of Mormons.

But --if I had known then what I know now, I would have felt free as a bird to go off and discover my dreams and succeed on my own terms. If I could do a rewind, I would have not felt guilty about associating more with non Mormons and taken on that scholarship, and likely stayed away at the university I originally chose, and socialized with everyone. Non Mormons would not have scared me - and I would have had a blast and developed an awesome career.

But instead, I felt guilted into marrying after BYU and having kids and dropped my career for many years. As a result, years later, I now have to try to find a way to get work again and with the economy not being great and large gaps in my work experience, it's very hard to get back into it.

I'm guessing you're a Jr in HS. What do you plan doing after you graduate. The answer depends on that. Are yo college bound? Have college savings? Chance of scholarship?

I'm university-bound, I'd like to pursue a career in teaching, probably French... I do think I have a good chance of winning some good scholarships - I still do fine with most of my classes - but I've had enough of TSCC's control over me. As xyz noted, I guess I'll just have to keep my head down for a while.

Wish me luck!

Luck! And don't let the church and TBMs get you down. :)

Good luck! Keep your head down and work really hard on future plans. Even if you can't get a scholarship, you can work, rent a room and hope to get enough aid to cover classes. Keep your sights on college, zone out at church, and all will be fine. Don't say anything or let on that you want to leave till you are in your post-high school program. Otherwise, you'll get harsher scrutiny and more pressure about a mission.

Everything will turn out ok, just stay strong.

Oh, I don't know how financial aid works in Canada, so I am going to give you the advice I'd give to someone in this country, and you can adapt it to Canadian regulations and programs.

In the US, you need your parents financial files and tax returns in order to get a financial aid determination. If your parents want you to go on a mission at 18 instead of college, I doubt they'd pony up their records, effectively cutting off your chances of university.

In the US, you can petition for independence if you are under 24, in order to get financial aid based on your own records or w/o your parents records. I had to do this when I was in college, and I forgot all the allowed circumstances, for me it was because I was working and supporting myself AND my parents wouldn't hand over records.

I suggest you look into these sorts of things so you will be prepared in the event that your parents hold you financially hostage unless you go on a mission.

Yes, listen to xyz.

The choices you make now will effect the quality of the rest of your life. If you are P R U D E N T and bide your time, you will be able to have that oh-so-important parental support that opens educational opportunities for you.

You seem like a smart young man. Read "Outliers" and consider yourself one of them. Be smarter than the guy from Montana.

If you want to vent, and you should have an outlet for your indignation and your feelings, continue to post here. We are here for you as surrogate parents who will give you solid, sound advice NOT based on a cult.

Best

Anagrammy

Thanks Anagrammy, I will follow your advice... I've read some of your posts on other forums and I'm glad to have made your acquaintance.

One question I have about TSCC is simply why? Why do the leaders continue to lead this cult? I see how Joseph Smith wanted power, women, etc but what's in it for the 'prophet' today? Or is he so brainwashed that he really believes what he's saying?

That landscape is changing.

There is no question that former prophets acted unilaterally, based on their idea of "revelation" (who knows what criteria they used). For example, Spencer W. Kimball's ill-fated crackdown on oral sex for ANY couple, married or not. Clearly that was not the consensus of the quorum and the announcement created a mini-exodus from the church from rightfully-incensed couples insisting the church get out of the bedroom.

Guess they forgot about the sleeping-in-garments, but oh well.

Various informants and posters have shared stories of individual GA's admitting they did not believe in the Book of Mormon. For example, Dennis Farley, former Salt Lake City attorney and former priesthood leader, went all the way up the ladder to Dallin Oaks and every single priesthood superior told him they also doubted the Book of Mormon was true. Behind closed doors,it's not the testimony-bearing we "little" members are usually given.

Most recently, due to actions taken by the GA's spurred by the results of normal business surveys and focus groups, we have begun to suspect that they are no longer looking to the Lord for his will but rather to regular management information systems.

Finally, just last week Grant Palmer share with the audience at the ExMormon Conference the fact that his source inside the highest echelons of Mormon leadership agree that they know the church is not true and they are trying to create something so useful and beneficial to members that they will stay members anyway.

It will be no surprise to us.

Anagrammy

PS. As to your question about why they would live a lie---if you had devoted your whole life to climbing a painstakingly difficult ladder of trivia and sacrifice...if you had thrown your family aside to Position 2 and missed all those weekends you should have spent getting to know your kids one by one, you might not be willing to fade into the general public. You might prefer to remain a Big Frog in small pond and be revered and honored in your old age, instead of sitting alone in front of a TV in Heber with no visitors and no family.

Wow thanks for all the detailed info. I really appreciate it... it's nice to talk to people who are in (or have been) in my predicament.

I completey agree with xyz. Play your cards close to your chest. Keeping your real thoughts to yourself is a great strategy in life. I realized the church was a cult when I was a few years older than you, but I never let on to anyone until I was on my own. That works well in my opinion.

The scales have already dropped from your eyes and you are seeing the church critically and clearly. You are so lucky for your age. This same ability to scrutinize will serve you well in many other areas to come. The Mormon church is not the only thing you need to keep a critical eye on.

A good education, a good job. Those are freedom. Concentrate on your future.

How did you cope with that cult while you knew that it was all a lie?

I have some TBM friends who I get along well with, but when it comes to the organization itself I don't know if I can keep this game up much longer... it's all just so revolting to me.

Believe it or not, I am envious of you. Be careful, because once someone gets the idea that you are an "anti", you will see the programmed response that has been driven into them. If you are careful, and play the role of truth-seeker, you may be able to ask some pointed questions at the right times and places as an insider to get the scales peeling off some other eyes as well. I wish I could do that!

>>>How did you cope with that cult while you knew that it was all a lie?

You buy dark glasses so they can't see you rolling your eyes when they say stupid stuff. JK.

It is hard - nobody here will tell you it is easy going through the motions in the trenches when you want to shout the fraud from the rooftops. There were times when I thought "I will go nuts! I will shoot myself in the head!" But I found little ways to occupy my mind and distract myself from the blunt trauma wound that was Mormonism in my life. It took me three or four years to find my way out without inciting too much drama-trauma.

There are management strategies for keeping damage under control that we all develop in order to cope with life. Maybe ask people here how they short-term coped - a good question for many who have recently left.

I left a long time ago, so I can't exactly recall all the coping mechanisms I employed. But all the people here have advice based on personal experience and you can try those things on and see how they fit.

Good luck!

It wasn't easy. I went on the mission and it wasn't until I was at BYU that I realized it was a lie.

I had a year to go before graduation when it happened. Switching schools was not an option. You lose too much. Why should I have had to set my self back so far just because I figured it out to be a cult? So I kept my head down, kept the garments on, and finished.

I had my car packed and went directly from my last final to my car and left Provo forever. They mailed my diploma.

Years later as an artist I realized I didn't need the degree anyway, especially from BYU, but what I did get out of doing it, was that I proved to myself I could do something that was really hard. I worked 30 hours a week, I kept a scholarship and I learned to be the last one to speak.

Listening to all that religious hype at that school was really a test, worse than any comprehensive final I ever had to take.

Do what is in YOUR best interest. Keep doing it, no matter how tedious. Eventually you will find that the dissenters (the controllers of your life now) will have no say.

True freedom comes when you have financial freedom. It's as simple as that. Think about it. If you had your own money right now, you'd be out now. Alas, that is not the case.

So, you have to dance the dance, and play the game until you do. Your best move is to do all that you can to get yourself educated to the highest level possible. Therein lies your freedom. Some find it outside of those perimeters, but they are few and far between.

If you settle for less, you will have to keep bouncing back asking for assistance. Either that, or live a very deprived life on the minimum wages. That is unless your parents or someone drops a load of money in your lap.

That old saw that money is power, holds some truth.

Being young, broke, and dependent is NOT fun. When you're young you can go without a lot of things. It's not quite as bothersome. When you get older, you will be filled with regrets if you didn't do what you needed to in order to be financially free. It's a tiresome story, but a true one.

That's why people like me (59) tell people like you to do whatever it takes to get financially independent. Not for a year or two. For life. Education is something nobody can take from you once you have it.

Before you decide you want to be a French teacher, talk to one. Do the math. Is that enough? Do you want more? How would you do that? These are all questions that nobody spent the time or effort to ask me. I had no mentors. Having a good mentor can change your life for the better. Hint: do not look for a mentor at church. They will tell you to go on a mission. -2years of very productive school time/freedom.

I am also a teen, but I'm out to my parents and family. I no longer attend any church or mutual or seminary (WOO).

Here's a little boring back story: I came to this board very scared and asking for advice. I found out the truth and decided that this church was a fraud. (Figured out the truth last summer at 16, now 17 too)

I had orginally planned to come out to my family when I was out on my own too, but it didnt work out that way. I was finding out so much and finally forming my own opinions, and learning and deciding for myself what to believe, rather than having some white guy in a suit TELL me what to believe. It was so liberating and quite a journey that I am still traveling today. My opinions were hard to keep in, especially when my parents or someone would start off on a TBM tangent with *completly* false info from the church :p

Anyway, even before I found out the truth, I was doubting and asking questions that my seminary/sunday school teachers obviously werent happy with me asking; needless to say, my parents were already wondering about me and what I believed before I even really began to find out for myself.

After I found out the truth, and even though I wanted to stay "in the closet", my new born opinions and my dislike for all things churchy started showing through my behavior. It got so bad that eventually my mother started asking me directly whether or not I believed. I knew I didnt, but I didnt want to lie or answer her. My silence probably answered her best. Keep in mind,though, this whole process took about a year from when I found out to when I came out.

****Advice****Anyway, as one who has gone through this, I believe in allowing the suspicions about you develope within your family. Ask well worded thoughtful questions that are usually taboo, like why Joseph Smith really had so many wives or why the church spent 5billion$ on a mall & where they got the money. Little things. Use evidence from church sources. Let them wonder about it themselves. This will eventually help them better understand why you chose what you chose.

This decision also depends on how much your family means to you. For me, my family means the world, especially my mom, and my atheist views arent as important as she is. I still am atheist, but I dont rub it in her face every time she starts to bear her testimony to her apostate daughter.(Just as I wouldn't want mormons rubbing their beliefs in my face when I started talking about cave men or something)

So, if you care, go slow and gently. TBMs are basically children. Jesus is their Santa. Knowledge, understanding, patience. It'll be worth it. It'll still be painful, but hopefully less so.

If you don't care so much, then go ahead and make it fast like a band aid, but that will involve ALOT more pain and misunderstanding, and maybe even isolation.

I *really* wish I could write more (i could write books) but I'm not sure anyone reads my posts this far and that kind of makes me sad to think I spent the last hour on my phone, typing a 5 hundred word essay to help someone... ****Good luck*****

That was beautiful. You didn't waste a single second. Very well thought out advice backed up by real experience with a lot of heart.

"I *really* wish I could write more (i could write books) but I'm not sure anyone reads my posts this far and that kind of makes me sad to think I spent the last hour on my phone, typing a 5 hundred word essay to help someone... ****Good luck*****"

17 and you write like this? Trust me. If you write books, readers will follow. You hit the nail perfectly and it's ring was musical yet direct. Let us know when your first book hits the press.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 12:07PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Don't worry, missguided, you ARE being read, and appreciated. It takes a lot of guts to decide to not be a member of a cult while you are still living under the family roof!

Nobody can be more cruel than your own family, especially when they feel that the things they revere are being rejected or threatened.

Missguided.
Well said! Jesus is their Santa. Let me add, and T, Monson is the good fairy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 11:13PM by Mia.

Missguided, I find it hard to believe you are only 17. And I do read your posts all the way through. I think 2humble4u can really use that kind of advice from a peer. As a 49yo, still suffering from the mental abuse of this cult, I can only say what I wish I would have done at your age. Your response was so beautiful and right on. I wish I'd had half your emotional IQ at your age.

I agree! It always helps to get points of view from people at different stages in life. I enjoyed your well-written post. I'm glad I'm out, but I still have a son your age who attends and it's important to be reminded that he has his own reasoning mind. Thank you!

While I respect your experience, some teens have gotten kicked out of their homes for coming out about their disbelief to their parents. Others have gotten cut off financially. That's why board members tend to advocate for being circumspect until you are out of the house and financially independent.

Each teen needs to judge his or her own situation and family and make decisions accordingly.

Thanks so much for your post. It's nice to find someone my age I can relate to... I understand how much your family means to you, I also love my family it's just their beliefs that I don't.

Thanks again for your best wishes and I want you to know you haven't wasted a second of your time writing this post.

While taking it slow, you might test the waters with your parents in very small careful doses. You may think both your parents are very faithful true believing Mormons, but a lot of the hold the church has is to convince people they can't leave the church because of their spouse, or child or parent.

Ask simple questions like I was reading and heard about Joseph Smith and Fanny Alger and Nancy Rigdon ... why would Joseph Smith go after young girls like that ...?

DNA evidence says native americans came from North Asia not Jerusalem, but I read a talk by Spencer W. Kimball etc.

When they start talking about missions, tell them you were praying and felt like you should really study xxx and be a teacher.

Don't be combative, just be honest and low key ...

My oldest son saying he was done with it allowed the rest of us to be very open about being done with the Church. Tread carefully but don't feel like you have to live your life in secret and don't hesitate to give Seminary teachers and Quorom leaders all of the questions you have.

Yeah, I'd say choose your battles wisely. Church attendance is sure to be a non-choice. Maybe the seminary thing could be negotiated. If it were me, I wouldn't tell my parents that I didn't believe. If they know you have no testimony they will certainly not want to waiver on attending every single thing that comes up.

Come back here for support.

THANK YOU to all who have posted so far. You've all given me good advice and I really do appreciate it... Funny how all my life at TSCC I've been told apostates are evil, but you're all much better people than most TBM's I know.

Thank you again and I will continue to follow this forum.

When Cortez landed in America, he burnt his ships, so his men would have no way to turn back, until they had been victorious. Now I am not suggesting you break off contact with your family, or start fires. However, when you do turn 18, get your own place, and go to resign, make sure you publicly call the bishop and elder's quorum president some really nasty names, so they will not want to re-activate you.

That is one path.

However you can catch more flies with honey than you can by burning ships and calling EQ presidents who may or may not deserve it @h0l3s. Yet it would feel great going out with a bang. Yet again feelings and not truth most often have unwanted consequences.

You do have freedom of mind 2humble4u so maybe keep burning and yelling at pretenders to the realms of your inside voice for now. I assure you I think of forbiddencokedrinker's way all the time.

p.s "However, when you do turn 18, get your own place" This is rock solid advice if at all possible.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 12:21PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Can you fill some of church time by other activities that would be well viewed and respected by your parents? You know, things that would be good preparation for your future.

In the meantime, I know that a thing that helped me when I found the meethings/lessons boring is that I would take paper and pen (before transportable tech) and write a lot. It looked as if I was taking notes, but they were not notes about the lesson... ;)