I don't doubt a bit that he was sexually involved, but what explanation is there as to why he had no kids except with Emma. It is my understanding that all potential surviving polygamous children that had some claim to Joseph Smith have been ruled out by DNA.

http://blog.mrm.org/2007/01/choose-life-choose-truth/

Sarah Pratt, wife of early LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, related a story from when she lived in the Mormon community of Nauvoo, Illinois:

“One day they came both, Joseph [Smith] and [John C.] Bennett, on horseback to my house. Bennett dismounted, Joseph remained outside. Bennett wanted me to return to him a book I had borrowed from him. It was a so-called doctor-book. I had a rapidly growing little family and wanted to inform myself about certain matters in regard to babies, etc., — this explains my borrowing that book. While giving Bennett his book, I observed that he held something in the left sleeve of his coat. Bennett smiled and said: ‘Oh, a little job for Joseph; one of his women is in trouble.’ Saying this. [sic] he took the thing out of his left sleeve. It was a pretty long instrument of a kind I had never seen before. It seemed to be of steel and was crooked at one end. I heard afterwards that the operation had been performed; that the woman was very sick, and that Joseph was very much afraid that she might die, but she recovered.”Bennett was the most intimate friend of Joseph for a time. He boarded with the prophet. He told me once that Joseph had been talking with him about his troubles with Emma, his wife. ‘He asked me,’ said Bennett, smilingly, ‘what he should do to get out of the trouble ?’ I said, ‘This is very simple. GET A REVELATION that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.’” (Dr. W. Wyl, Mormon Portraits: Joseph Smith The Prophet — His Family and His Friends, 61-62)

I don’t mean to suggest that Dr. Bennett’s abortions were in any way sanctioned by the LDS Church. Dr. Bennett was a scoundrel by all accounts. Consider the sworn testimony of Joseph Smith’s brother, Hyrum:

On the seventeenth day of May, 1842, having been made acquainted with some of the conduct of John C. Bennett, which was given in testimony, under oath…by several females who testified that John C. Bennett endeavored to seduce them, and accomplished his designs by saying it was right; that it was one of the mysteries of God, which was to be revealed when the people was strong enough in faith to bear such mysteries — that it was perfectly right to have illicit intercourse with females, providing no one knew it but themselves, vehemently trying them from day to day, to yield to his passions, bringing witnesses of his own clan to testify that there were such revelations and such commandments, and that they were of God; also stating that he would be responsible for their sins, if there were any, and that he would give them medicine to produce abortions, provided they should become pregnant.” (History of the Church, 5:71)

According to LDS authors Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippets Avery, if the women he approached were reluctant to accept Dr. Bennett’s proposals, he would tell them he came with Joseph Smith’s approval (Mormon Enigma, 111). There exists contradictory testimony from faithful Mormons, and from Bennett himself, that Smith’s name was never invoked during these encounters. Whatever the truth of the matter, Hyrum Smith’s testimony indicates that Dr. Bennett “accomplished his designs” with at least some of the women he approached (see also fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 311). This raises a question in my mind.

This would be easy to cover up. You send a man on a mission, marry his wife, and then 9 months after hubby is gone, wifey has a baby. Is it JS's? No DNA tests back then!

As for the other ones, just find them suitable husbands if they get in a family way. After all, what young man would question the prophet giving away one of his brides?

I have always wondered the same thing....but to keep the secret they must have just said the babies were their husbands...unless those men were overseas. I hate to think of abortions in those days. What a horrible man JS was!!!

There is at least one account of a woman giving birth 'miraculously' soon after her husbands return from overseas.

So if you have married women, then a pregnancy might be seen as theirs, and of course nobody is going to broadcast a secret.

And when all else fails, the trusty doctor will know what to do.

Also:
"Prescindia, who was Norman Buell's wife and simultaneously a plural wife of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she did not know whether her husband Norman or the Prophet was the father of her son, Oliver. And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys." (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)

Of this, historian Fawn Brodie herself further wrote: "Evidence of children born to Joseph Smith by women other than Emma is extremely scarce except in the case of Prescindia Huntington Buell. Prescindia once stated to Mrs. Ettie V. Smith that 'she did not know whether Mr. Buel or the Prophet was the father of her son.' This statement I regarded with due reserve until I discovered a photograph of the son, Oliver Buell, which showed an unmistakable likeness to other sons of Joseph, born by Emma Smith.

That the Huntington family looked upon young Oliver as the Prophet's son is suggested by Oliver Huntington's diary entry of November 14, 1884: 'Then I stood proxy for the Prophet Joseph Smith in having sealed or adopted to him a child of my sister Prescenda, had while living with Norman Buell.' The ambiguous wording of the phrase I have italicized is significant, especially since there is no similar entry for any other of her children." (No Man Knows My History, Fawn Brodie)

My friend noted: It is obvious from this entry that the child was likely Joseph's, since there would be no reason for Prescindia to have one child sealed to Joseph that she had with her own husband Norman, if born while living with Norman. I have looked for the photograph online, but have been unable to find it.

2. - "Sylvia P. Sessions, married to Windsor P. Lyon, gave birth to a daughter on 8 February 1844, less than five months before Joseph Smith's martyrdom. That daughter, Josephine, related in a 24 February 1915 statement that prior to her mother's death in 1882 'she called me to her bedside and told me that her days on earth were about numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and all others but which she now desired to communicate to me.' Josephine's mother told her she was 'the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church.'" (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)

JoD3:360 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also:
> "Prescindia, who was Norman Buell's wife and
> simultaneously a plural wife of the Prophet Joseph
> Smith, said that she did not know whether her
> husband Norman or the Prophet was the father of
> her son, Oliver. And a glance at a photo of Oliver
> shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys."
> (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the
> Mormons", page 34; Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My
> History" pages 301-302, 437-39)
>
> Of this, historian Fawn Brodie herself further
> wrote: "Evidence of children born to Joseph Smith
> by women other than Emma is extremely scarce
> except in the case of Prescindia Huntington Buell.
> Prescindia once stated to Mrs. Ettie V. Smith that
> 'she did not know whether Mr. Buel or the Prophet
> was the father of her son.' This statement I
> regarded with due reserve until I discovered a
> photograph of the son, Oliver Buell, which showed
> an unmistakable likeness to other sons of Joseph,
> born by Emma Smith.
>
> That the Huntington family looked upon young
> Oliver as the Prophet's son is suggested by Oliver
> Huntington's diary entry of November 14, 1884:
> 'Then I stood proxy for the Prophet Joseph Smith
> in having sealed or adopted to him a child of my
> sister Prescenda, had while living with Norman
> Buell.' The ambiguous wording of the phrase I have
> italicized is significant, especially since there
> is no similar entry for any other of her
> children." (No Man Knows My History, Fawn Brodie)
>
>
> My friend noted: It is obvious from this entry
> that the child was likely Joseph's, since there
> would be no reason for Prescindia to have one
> child sealed to Joseph that she had with her own
> husband Norman, if born while living with Norman.
> I have looked for the photograph online, but have
> been unable to find it.
>


I'm pretty sure DNA testing has shown that Oliver was not Joseph's child. Dialouge had the article by Perego in it. Testing for Josephine Fisher has been completed yet. Personally I based on her mother's comments I think there's a better chance she is a child of Smith than some of the others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2011 06:37PM by badseed.

Where the paternity of possible female descendants of Joseph Smith can be determined one way or the other. Ergo, it is impossible to rule out that he was the father of Josephine Lyon, as Josephine's mother told her.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/DNA.htm

>"Josephine Lyon, daughter of Sylvia Sessions Lyon, wrote, 'Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside and told me that her days were numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith.'"

>"As with Josephine, these children were most likely borne by women who already had a husband when they married Joseph Smith, and may have been raised using the first husband’s surname. Still, questions remain regarding who these children may have been."

>Although Y Chromosome testing is extremely useful in cases involving unbroken paternal lineages, it cannot be used to identify alleged daughters, such as Josephine Lyon, that Joseph Smith may have fathered.

>Historians have previously identified eight possible children of Joseph Smith borne by his plural wives. As of November 2007, DNA testing has shown that three of these eight children were not fathered by Joseph Smith. Two other children died as infants and therefore left no posterity.

Incidentally, Ugo Perego, who authored this web page, is a TBM.

"On January 27, 1844 her [Sylvia Lyon, wife of Windsor Lyon and later, secret wife of Joseph Smith, Jr.] only surviving child, Philofreen, also died. At this time, Sylvia was eight months pregnant with her fourth child, Josephine Rosetta Lyon. Josephine later wrote, “Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside and told me that her days were numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith”.

(See the last para. at http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/08-SylviaSessionsLyon.htm)

Given that JS made 11 married women his plural wives, in violation of the "doctrines and principles" of polygamy known to him in 1831 (see the LDS Church's section summary for D&C 132 at http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/), and given that two of the "principles" of plural marriage were:

1. The first wife MUST be informed and give her approval before any polygamous union can occur.

2. Only virgins "vowed to no other man" could become plural wives, as per D&C 132:61.

JS did not first ask Emma, his first and only legal wife, if it was OK with her that he marry other men's wives; he did so in secret, a violation of the 'revealed principle' no. 1.

The 11 married women whom he pressured to marry him were not virgins and were already vowed. JS repeatedly disobeyed 'revealed principle' no. 2.

D&C 132:61 is clear that ONLY by obeying these two principles, could a Mormon priesthood holder NOT commit adultery ("he cannot commit adultery for they ["virgins", mentioned in the first part of v. 61] are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else". Each of the 11 married NON-virgins that JS made his plural wives belonged to their husband.

So, 'Prophet of the Restoration' and Mormon Church president JS was repeatedly guilty of adultery. According to 'true' LDS doctrine, adultery is a sin next to murder, and church members who have been through the temple and received their 'endowments', as was JS, are excommunicated for adultery. Why wasn't Joseph Smith? Because the Mormon Church was his creation and he complied with only the rules if/when they suited him.

of a really efficient coat-hanger abortionist.

This is why Roe v. Wade will never be reversed by anyone but a flock of morons.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2011 04:51PM by MJ.

He was only 38 when he died.

They had birth control as far back as ancient Egypt and proably further.This is not a modern thing.People have had primitve condoms, spermicodes and barriers for millenia. Some of the old methods were pretty effective.There is also the rhythm method and withdrawal.Then there is abortion, passing the child off as someone else's etc. Besides JS had so many women he likely didn't sleep with any of them frequently which would make pregnancy less likely. In short they didn't have the pill, the patch or IUDs, but they did have birth control



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2011 05:13PM by bona dea.

...When Knights were bold
And rubbers yet invented.
They tied a leaf 'round their beef
And babies were prevented.

Things have changed.

Timoty

would have a pretty low sperm count if he was servicing each of them-- right?

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138%2810%2900120-0/abstract

"Although it is great in terms of numbers of children for successful males to have harems, the data show that, for every new woman added to a male's household, the number of children that each wife produced goes down by one," said biologist Dr Michael Wade, of Indiana University."

If JS was doing the nasty with 30+ women that we know about, we should expect his 'wives' to have lower individual fertility.

Plus, he wasn't at it all that long, relatively-speaking.

and saying he probably avoided it all by doing his wives in the boo-boo hole. 0.o

My guess is that it was a combination of birth control, possibly abortion, the number of women, and the possibility he and some of the women may not have been highly fertile and the sheer number of partners which will decrease the number of sexual encounters with any one women.Add to that the fact that some of the children were born to women who were married and it isn't all that surprising. As someone else said, he died young and hadn 't been a polygamist for more than a few years.There are probably descendents out there. Do we even know that the list of wives is complete?He may have had children with wives we don't even know about.

I just think it's funny that Mormons try to deny the sex thing. They will grudgingly admit that Smith "married" dozens of women, but the thought of him having sex with them is just too much. No, he just married all those women. He didn't actually have sex with them or anything. Hilarious.

I have heard of women in harems dying virgin.Marriges were made to form alliances Joseph married some older women for reasons other than sex. There may be some women that he didn't sleep with much or at all, but to say he didn't sleep with any of them is ridiculous.

According to Sarah Pratt, he did...


In addition to Joseph Smith marrying already-pregnant women, there is some evidence that abortion was practiced in Nauvoo.

LDS Elder Ebenezer Robinson testified that Hyrum Smith "instructed me in Nov or Dec 1843 to make a selection of some young woman and he would seal her to me, and I should take her home," he recalled, "and if she should have an offspring give out word that she had a husband, an Elder, who had gone on a foreign mission." Possibly referring to a secluded birthplace, or conceivably to abortion, Robinson spoke of "a place appointed in Iowa, 12 or 18 miles from Nauvoo to send female victims to his polygamous births."
- Ebenezer Robinson to Jason W. Briggs, Jan. 28, 1880, LDS archives. On December 29, 1873, Ebenezer and Angeline Robinson signed an affidavit saying that Hyrum Smith had come to their house in the fall of 1843 to teach them the doctrine of polygamy.

The wife of Apostle Orson Pratt told Smith's son why his father had few polygamous children

"Joseph Smith, the son of the prophet, and president of the re-organized Mormon church, paid me a visit, and I had a long talk with him. I saw that he was not inclined to believe the truth about his father, so I said to him: 'You pretend to have revelations from the Lord. Why don't you ask the Lord to tell you what kind of a man your father really was?' He answered: 'If my father had so many connections with women, where is the progeny?' I said to him: 'Your father had mostly intercourse with married women, and as to single ones, (his 1st Counselor) Dr. Bennett was always on hand, when anything happened.'"

"One day they came both, Joseph and Bennett, on horseback to my house. Bennett dismounted, Joseph remained outside. Bennett wanted me to return to him a book I had borrowed from him. It was a so-called doctor-book. I had a rapidly growing little family and wanted to inform myself about certain matters in regard to babies, etc., -- this explains my borrowing that book. While giving Bennett his book, I observed that he held something in the left sleeve of his coat. Bennett smiled and said: 'Oh, a little job for Joseph; one of his women is in trouble.' Saying this. he took the thing out of his left sleeve. It was a pretty long instrument of a kind I had never seen before. It seemed to be of steel and was crooked at one end."

"I heard afterwards that the operation had been performed; that the woman was very sick, and that Joseph was very much afraid that she might die, but she recovered."
- Testimony of Apostle Orson Pratt's wife, Sarah Pratt from "Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and Friends"
http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1886WWyl.htm#pg060a

A doctor in Nauvoo, and once a close associate of Jospeh Smith, was accused by Hyrum Smith of practicing abortions. Hyrum testified that former 1st Counselor Dr. Bennett was propositioning women in a similar fashion to Joseph Smith. "[Dr. Bennett] endeavored to seduce them, and accomplished his designs by saying it was right; that it was one of the mysteries of God, which was to be revealed when the people was strong enough in faith to bear such mysteries—that it was perfectly right to have illicit intercourse with females, providing no one knew it but themselves, vehemently trying them from day to day, to yield to his passions, bringing witnesses of his own clan to testify that there were such revelations and such commandments, and that they were of God; also stating that he would be responsible for their sins, if there were any, and that he would give them medicine to produce abortions, provided they should become pregnant."
- Affidavit of Hyrum Smith. Official History of the Church, Vol. 5, p.71

Pretend Marriages in Case of Pregnancy

According to church historian Andrew Jenson, Sarah Ann Whitney became the seventh plural wife of Joseph Smith, and the story of his marriage to her illustrates another strategy. She disguised her relationship to the prophet by pretending to marry Joseph Corodon Kingsbury on April 29, 1843. In his autobiography Kingsbury wrote: "I according to Pres. Joseph Smith & Council & others agreed to stand by Sarah Ann Whitney as though I was supposed to be her husband and [participated in] a pretended marriage for the purpose of . . . Bringing about the purposes of God in these last days . . ."
- Elder Joseph Kingsbury, "History of Joseph Kingsbury Written by His Own Hand," page 5, Utah State Historical Society

If Not Sex, What Was Joseph Smith Doing with His Plural Wives?

Most of Smith's plural wives boarded with other families, whom he visited periodically. His secretary, William Clayton, recorded one such visit to young Almera Johnson on May 16, 1843: "Prest. Joseph and I went to B[enjamin] F. Johnsons to sleep." Johnson himself later noted that on this visit Smith stayed with Almera "as man and wife" and "occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the previous month he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge as his wife." Almera Johnson also confirmed her secret marriage to Joseph Smith: "I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F."

While in hiding, Joseph Smith wrote a revealing letter which he addressed to her parents, Newel and Elizabeth Whitney, inviting them to bring their daughter to visit him "just back of Brother Hyrums farm." He advised Brother Whitney to "come a little a head and knock at the south East corner of the house at the window." He assured them, especially Sarah Ann, that "it is the will of God that you should comfort me now." He stressed the need for care "to find out when Emma comes," but "when she is not here, there is the most perfect saftey." The prophet warned them to "burn this letter as soon as you read it" and "keep all locked up in your breasts." In closing he admonished, "I think Emma won't come to night if she don't, don't fail to come tonight."
- http://www.xmission.com/%7Eresearch/family/strange.htm

When asked in a private gathering if she was still a virgin after being the plural wife of Joseph Smith, Eliza R. Snow replied "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."
- Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.

Joseph Smith Promised to Cover for Polygamy Pregnancies

Joseph Smith taught the "Law of Celestial Marriage" to his close friend and secretary, William Clayton. When the pregnancy of William Clayton's first plural wife threatened to expose them, the prophet Joseph Smith advised Clayton to "just keep her at home and brook it and if they raise trouble about it and bring you before me I will give you an awful scourging and probably cut you off from the church and then I will baptize you and set you ahead as good as ever."
- William Clayton journal, Oct. 19, 1843.

Read more here:

http://www.i4m.com/think/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm

Some Mormons claim that the absence of children means that there was no sex, that the marriages were simply a formality for the CK, just "sealings for eternity."

That, however, would be contrary to the only loophole in the Book of Mormon for polygamy, where God supposedly condemned polygamy EXCEPT if he commanded it "to raise up a righteous seed" (Jacob 2:30). Thus, JS would have been committing a sin to marry women and NOT try to have children (i.e. sexual relations).

Maybe he used condoms? Or coitus interuptus?

http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/15212/19th-century-condoms-found-in-medieval-medical-book

I doubt that Joseph got to sleep with his other women as often as he would have liked to. There was the problem of getting to be with the women without Emma finding out, because they weren't practicing polygamy openly yet.

Maybe he only slept with each of his 38-or-so women a few times each. As was pointed out, he was still quite young when he died.

I have a few women that I have very friendly relationships with. That along with the responsibility to care for my last 2 of 5 kids ( I have custody) makes me wonder how Joseph did it. It is a nightmare to try to give everyone the attention they desire. Just saying.

Well that is the problem. Joe only gave them the attention he thought he deserved.

I. can't. discuss. this. topic.

It was one of my make-or-break moments.

The Church is so wrong. SO WRONG>

Shannon

Selfish, selfish, life-ruining, self-serving, evil adulterous lying sack-o'-sh*t. Shows you can make a martyr out of anyone, anyone at all.

And it will comfort people that they are not as evil as he was and God forgave him. RRRRGGGGHHHH!!

Anagrammy

[with heartfelt apologies to all slime, everywhere.]

Of course she's never been confirmed as his either. Still, the fact that we've heard nothing at all about her DNA makes me wonder.

It relies on the Y-chromosome that is passed on from father-to-son and is not subject to recombination like the other chromosomes are...

We know with a high degree of certainty what JS's Y-chromosome looked like, and this is used to rule out descendants of male children such as Oliver Buell, whom Fawn Brodie believed may have been an offspring of JS...

As noted, Josephine Lyon, the daugher of Sylvia Sessions Lyon, claims she was told by her mother that she was the daughter of Joseph Smith.

DNA science has not reached the point where such a claim can be accepted or rejected with any degree of certainty.

I have similar facial characteristics to the pictures of Joseph Smith. High cheek bones, long receding forehead, etc. My nineteenth century grandparents were good friends of Joseph Smith in Nauvoo and avid polygamists themselves. I guess I should go get a DNA test...although I'm not sure I would want to even know that I was Joseph Jr. Just sayin...