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Posted by: phyllis ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 03:03AM

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Posted by: nalicea ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 03:24AM

Very interesting. I also found this, on the same subject:

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 04:44AM

The same way his John Birch society "ancestors" of the last generation spoke of a Communist conspiracy and warned of the evils of socialized medicine in the form of fluoridation and Medicaid/Medicare...

BTW, this is also the stuff Rodney Meldrum is peddling to mainstream Mormons as a counter-claim to the Limited Geography Theory... (first bullchip warning)

Contrast the LDS hype with the statements by the legimate scholars noted in nalicea's link...

Most interesting--for me--is seeing Alice Kehoe's name on the roster of plaintiffs; she has has actually suggested some diffusionists' claims are legitimate, notably the Kensington Runestone (see Rapids, Lachine, for a quick rebuttal of that forgery). But she has also engaged in some legitimate archaeological scholarship...

We've had a few threads on this subject before, but I always welcome them because they expose LDS crapola at its core...

Here's one...,47116,47116#msg-47116

The proprietor of the site linked, an RLDS sort who also insisted JS never practiced polygamy, came here on a bit of a mission seeking to bring enlightment to all the heretics here, and well . . . I wasn't very nice to him. He's the one I blatantly called a troll on the thread above, and I rarely do that for a first offense...

Here's the site with another bullchip warning sign...

It's basically regurgitated Kerry Shirts/Jeff Lindsay stuff with a lot of Wayne May archaeological fantasy thrown in...

Having spent an hour watching the Meldrum video--and probably exposing myself to child abuse charges because I brought my young daughter along--as well as the Glenn Beck show hyping that video, I feel entitled to throw a few more tomatoes.

The conspiracy Beck, Meldrum, and May are touting involves the claim that ancient civilizations in North America had extensive Old World contact, and there was a huge effort to suppress this evidence because of the desire for "Manifest Destiny" with the goal of depriving Native Americans of their rightful ancestral lands...

These suggestions are abominable insults to the lives and careers of John Wesley Powell and Lewis Henry Morgan, two giants from the 19th Century who worked tirelessly to advance the frontiers of scientific knowledge.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 02:46PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: top cat ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 11:39AM

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Posted by: michaelm (not logged in) ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 08:18AM

I noticed in the link that it said this:

"The DVD was crowned Best Multicultural Documentary by the International Cherokee Film Festival"

Makes me think much less of the International Cherokee Film Festival now.

If nomination for awards brings credibility, well hell, Erich Von Daniken should be credible:

Chariots of the Gods was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature.

About all it proves is that money talks and bull**** gets awarded.

Just imagine it is the 1970s again but with Glenn Beck shedding tears about how special it was for ancient space travelers to visit the earth. Not much different than with this latest.

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Posted by: voltaire ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 09:26AM

your average run-of-the-mill Rush Limbaugh wannabee to your 150% ding-a-ling ding-dong gone completely bananas nutjob.

Has he started taking new drugs ... er, 'scuse me--"has his physician put him on a new anti-depressant medicine schedule" recently?


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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 11:37AM

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 12:41PM

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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 12:55PM

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Posted by: RichardtheBad (not logged in) ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 12:55PM

Next thing you know he will be claiming that Barry Fell was a prophet.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 01:22PM

He's another favorite of the Sorenson/Johannessen ancient mariner fan club...

Per Wiki for background...

>Though Fell was an accomplished marine biologist at Harvard University, he is best known for three books which claim that many centuries before Christopher Columbus reached America, Celts, Basques, Phoenicians, Egyptians, and others were visiting North America.

>One example of Fell's claims is his contention in Saga America that Brendan of Clonfert may have reached North America centuries before Columbus. This is based on Fell's translation, published in the magazine Wonderful West Virginia in 1983, of two rock-cut inscriptions located at archaeological sites in Wyoming and Boone counties, West Virginia. According to Fell, these inscriptions narrate the story of Christ's nativity and are written in an old Irish script called Celtic Ogham (also referred to as Ogam), dating back to the 6th or 8th century AD. This led to the publication of articles in the journal The West Virginia Archeologist that were highly critical of Fell's conclusions and methodology, including a 1983 article by archaeologist and historian W. Hunter Lesser describing Fell's claims as pseudoscientific and unreliable. In 1989 lawyers Monroe Oppenheimer and Willard Wirtz wrote an article based on opinions of academic archaeologists and linguists to dispute that the inscription is written in Ogam script. They further accused Fell of deliberate fraud.

So not only did these Irish monks make landfall on the Atlantic Coast, they managed a journey inland of several hundred miles to carve records of their journey into some rocks...

Of course the paragraph that follows this one, quotes an extraction from a Canadian archaeologist voicing the opinion that some of the "Celtic" inscriptions are genuine...

I suspect that's an addition from one of the Mormonites who still infest Wiki...


>The Department of Anthropology of the Smithsonian Insititution occasionally receives inquiries regarding the book America B.C.: Ancient Settlers in the New World, by Barry Fell (Quadrangle /New York Times Book Co. 1976). This book attempts to demonstrate that a number of early peoples (including Phoenicians, Libyans, Carthaginians, and Egyptians) had contact with the New World long before the brief visits of the Norsemen about A.D. 1000. The evidence cited includes stone inscriptions found, or alleged to have been found, in the New World; American Indian words, place names, and writing systems claimed to be of Egyptian, Celtic, Norse, Semitic, or other Old World origin; and certain carved stones, stone structures, and artifacts. The statement below has been prepared to explain briefly why Smithsonian specialists in linguistics and New World prehistory conside the conclusions reached in this book to be incorrect.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: December 30, 2010 12:59PM

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 12:07PM

Ken Feder, one of the experts mentioned in the article, is the man I contacted via email last summer. I alerted him to the misuse of his research, and to the deceptive editing.

At the time, he replied that the producers of the documentary had promised to send him a DVD for review, but that he hadn't received it yet. He said he would contact them.

Looks like he and Lepper followed up. Good for them.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 12:18PM

Whoops, timeline error on my part. Not "last summer," but summer before last. Time flies.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 12:34PM

Oh, heck! And, Damn! To hell with this weak, mormony cussing. Fuckity fuck fuck!

I screwed up my own timeline again.

I did look into mormon pseudo-archaeology the summer before last. But I didn't email Ken Feder until January of 2010.

Here's his reply, dated January 8, 2010:

"Dear Lynna:
Thanks very much for alerting me to this. I requested of the producers a copy of the dvd as soon as it was ready for distribution and apparently they have not afforded me that courtesy.
As I have not seen it, I cannot comment on how they edited my interview. My entire focus was on the remarkable culture produced by the indigenous people of North America. I made every effort in my wording to make sure that what I said could not be twisted, but perhaps in this I was naïve. As a result of your email, I intend to contact the producers and remind them of their promise to supply me with a copy.
Thanks again. I ‘ll let you know my reaction when I receive a copy of the show.
Ken Feder

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 12:43PM

is still going strong. Guess a lot of people happen to agree with him, or like his style, or at least, think he is onto something.
He would be long gone if he didn't have so many viewers for his TV program and listeners for his radio program.
It's an view of democracy in this country people seem to like to hear more about.
I don't care for him, but I know a lot of people who do.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 01:26PM

I wish that Ken Feder and the other archaeologists had issued their disclaimer, and had revealed the falsehoods in the "documentary" *before* Glenn Beck gave it so much coverage.

But that's the way it always is. It takes more time to debunk the falsehoods, and to present the facts, than it takes to lie.

I remember the producers taking that film on tour. It drew enough large audiences in Utah and in Arizona to confirm the biases of many a morgbot.

A lot of other gullible people listening to Glenn Beck missed the mormony dog-whistle bits, and just honed in on the conspiracy bull. It's anti-education.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 04:31PM

It's troubling to see an increasing traffic in lies between mormons and Native Americans. The producers of the bogus "documentary" are spinning their propaganda hard, playing the "respect for Native Americans" card, while actually showing little to no respect for First Nations.

From a First Nations discussion forum;
"The book of mormon teaches the exact things that the cherokee did and still do. There are soooo many things in them both! If you read it it mentions the great spirit rather than using the name god. Stories i heard around the fire from the old elders i saw in the book years after i heard them. Many of tribes have the same beliefs, it's definitly worth a look if you haven't already."

See the post at 10:06 pm, Friday, January 22, 2010.

Some of Native Americans have been gulled into believing the mormon and associated "history." See

See also:

"...Our 'SPIRIT PATHWAYS,' listed above will give you some vision of our Latter-day Saint (Mormon) theological PARALLED CONNECTION with our ancient Cherokee Culture. Following the INDEX may enlighten you on the PARALLES OF TRUTH between our two CULTURES and our SPIRITUAL WAYS. These truths align each of them with sacred responsibilities of being The Creator's 'PEACEKEEPERS.' On this web site, our Latter-day Saint / Kit'Yowa, Cherokee Native American genealogical family research - relates spiritual beliefs of PEACE, through balancing Jesus Christ's (The Creator's) omnipotent sacred truth. Today's Saints call..."OBEYING "The Savior's modern day priesthood's real truth ."LIVING" The Fullness Of The Gospel Law." It is comprised of most sacred - secret rites and ordinances upholding all moral principles. It is based on striving to become "ONE in spirit and purpose" with God, through the Plan Of Salvation of our Eternal Father In Heaven's - light and truth. It is sustained by the Fire Of The Holy Ghost - within us.....We believe we were 'chosen' in heaven to belong to earth's modern family of The Creator, entitled, The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints. ..."

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Posted by: loveskids ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 04:56PM

Up until about 8 months ago I watched Glenn Beck religiously. I mean my day revolved around his 2:00 show. Or I'd catch his 11:00 one if I missed the earlier one. Loved the guy. Have all his books. He was my biggest reason for questioning the church. How can the lds church be wrong if someone as smart as Glenn Beck is a member. I seriously had a problem with that. Of course the church is all a lie,I know that. Do you think Beck knows that? I have no desire to watch him anymore. Don't know what happened to me. I guess I had to seriously question his motives and his sincerety. He sure has a huge audience though.

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Posted by: mateo ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 10:47PM

> How can the lds church be wrong if
> someone as smart as Glenn Beck is a member.

Let me help you out. There's nothing smart about Glenn Beck.

Glenn Beck is an embarrassment to the church nationwide, an embarrassment mitigated only by the fact that much of his audience does not know he's a Mormon.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2010 10:49PM by mateo.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 04:59PM

Lessee, for 150 years the Church left the Paiutes and other Indians "holding the bag" for the Mountain Meadows Massacre...

The big embarassment on that one was the uncovering of the remains of the MMM victims during church-financed monument reconstruction in 1999... What forensic studies were done showed that nearly all of the victims had been shot at close range, and the Indians had very few firearms...

Yes, there were Indians present, but it was orchestrated by the Southern Utah LDS leadership, probably under BY's orders...

And here's some more from the forensic lab: A good many of the victims probably had mixed ancestry, including Cherokeee...

Finally, there's the matter of the Bear River Massacre... Yes, it was committed by the U.S. Army under Patrick Connor, but it was because of conflicts between Mormons and the Shoshone in Cache Valley... And Brigham Young let Orrin Porter Rockwell and Lot Smith serve as guides for Connor's men...

Edit: This was intended as a reply to Once More's comments about the church promoting its propaganda among Native Americans...

And a Cabbie note to "Loveskids": Keep coming back. We're not ones telling lies; Glenn Beck is...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2010 05:03PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 05:19PM

Good info, SL Cabbie. Thank you.

Seems to me that some of the more radical fringes of the LDS Church are very busy unenlightening Native Americans.

(That's a concept I have a hard time getting my head around, that the LDS community has a "radical fringe." They pretty much radically crazy already, so how radical does one have to be to a member of the fringe element?

Cloudpiler (Philip Landis) was/is mormon. Native Americans are being sucked into MLM schemes. FLDS multi-level marketing schemes sometimes include pseudo-Indian aspects, especially when it comes to herbal remedies.

Meldrum's association with Cherokees is highly suspect. They give his documentaries their attention? WTF? There's way too much Book-of-Mormon = First Nation spirituality talk going around. Something's up, and it's not good.

Maybe the First Nations need to be reminded of the true history of mormon and Indian interactions.

Mormons like Meldrum are parlaying Indian connections into money and converts.

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Posted by: elee ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 05:44PM

Okay, this just totally cracked me up.


"that is what i thought too, i see many mentions of mormons and the book of mormon so i was just curious if others have read that sacred book. In case any of you wonder i am a Mormon. I was raised the old cherokee way as well as mormon which is one and the same if you understand the peoples"

And here's the hilarious response:

"ollan xolatl"

"well hey haven't met a cherokee mormon before. how many tepees are you supporting?"


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Posted by: anon ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 07:53PM

Oncemore said: "Meldrum's association with Cherokees is highly suspect. They give his documentaries their attention? WTF? There's way too much Book-of-Mormon = First Nation spirituality talk going around. Something's up, and it's not good."

The Federally recognized Cherokee leaders are fighting this as well. Many who call themselves Cherokee have no enrollment or affiliation with the official people.

A connection between Meldrum, Glenn Beck and one of these fraudulent Cherokee bands can be seen here:

Have you noticed how many claim to be Cherokee while perverting and corrupting their history? It does not happen as much with the Sioux.

Many tribal members are going after the non-Indian frauds. Perhaps it is only a matter of time before Meldrum, Beck etc. get taken to court for using artifact fraud to highjack a culture.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 09:14PM

Well, it's worse than I thought it was. Thank you, anon, for the additional links and info. (You might want to make up a nym other than "anon" to use when posting here. We have too many people posting as "anon" ... and some of them are dumb as a box of rocks. Wait, rocks contain all kinds of useful information. Sorry for the insult, rocks.)

It looks to me like both political action and legal action will have to be taken to put a stop to this highjacking of Cherokee culture and of Native American rights.

This is from the newsletter put out by, dated April, 2010 (it's the link above that downloads a WORD document):

"It was the old-fashioned testing ["old-fashioned testing," wtf does that mean? Anything that's accurate and correct is ignored?] that was in the spotlight recently, with a new twist. LDS Travel, and Ancient American Magazine sponsored an Ancient American History Conference April 1-2 in Sandy, Utah."

"The content was 50% Mormon and most of the attendees were members of the LDS church, but DNA Consultants' Donald N. Yates was the keynote speaker, presenting evidence that present-day Cherokee Indians bear mitochondrial DNA lineages from the ancient East Mediterranean world, including Greek, Egyptian, Libyan, Jewish and Canaanite women. Genetics – like politics – make strange bedfellows. Fox News host Glenn Beck (who is Mormon) provided an intro for Dr. Yates (who is Jewish). The current special edition on the Jewish-Cherokee connection is featured on the magazine's Facebook page and can be ordered from the Central Band of Cherokee...."

"On April 23, a film crew from the History Channel taped Chief Sitting Owl of the Central Band of the Central Band of Cherokee and tribespeople conducting traditional rituals. Chief Sitting Owl gave a tour of the Cherokee Museum and Cultural Center in Lawrenceburg, Tenn. and described the tribe's Abraham/Moses project and ancient Israelite connection. [mormon dog whistle!]..."

DNA Consultants is located in Phoenix, Arizona. I don't know anything about them, but the newsletter looks like garbage, and I suspect they are a faux organization made to look official for the sake of distributing mormon DNA pseudo-science. Mormons have found a weakness they can exploit, and they have lawyers helping them. Lots of people are Native American wannabes, so the mormons are raking in money from a larger audience than just church members.

The "Central Band of Cherokee" was one of six newly minted tribes recognized in Tennessee in 2010. However, the federally recognized tribes charged that the Commission of Indian Affairs violated laws when it recognized the six new groups.

Fake Indian tribes ... let us begin the native ritual of raking in the money!

Excerpts from the Cherokee Nation link given up-thread:

"Principal Chief Michell Hicks, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, criticized the process. 'As one of three federally recognized Cherokee tribes, we have had no interaction with any of these groups, and I absolutely do not support them in this endeavor.'"

"Cherokee Nation Communications Officer Mark Miller described the recognitions as 'defying the state legislature.' He went on to say that, as a Cherokee, he could certainly see the attractions of his culture. However, he said, it is important to distinguish between heritage clubs, which is how he defined these groups, and federally recognized tribes, such as the Cherokee Nation...."

"...'Lies' was how Principal Chief Joe Sitting Owl White described criticism of the recognition process. “They’ll lie till the Lord comes, and they will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.'"

Chief Joe Sitting Owl White is a mormon, in case you couldn't tell from the end-of-days blather.

"... 10 former Tennessee Indian Affairs commissioners submitted a letter to the state’s attorney general, denouncing the process and calling the groups merely “culture clubs.” The ex-officials charged conflicts of interest, noting that **four of the six current commissioners belong to the tribes they approved.** [emphasis added] The 10 former officials also questioned the legitimacy of the new tribes’ identity claims, which are based in part on others’ perception that one is Native American and on business activities that address cultural preservation...."

Business activities ... right!

"The Central Band of Cherokee has an especially far-flung heritage. This includes believing it is a Lost Tribe of Israel, [mormon idiocy alert!] said Sitting Owl White. 'We have DNA proving this and a team working hard on a treaty with Israel.' A Facebook site for the Central Band offers links to archaeological information supposedly demonstrating the Israeli connection, including a portrait of Pocahontas showing her 'Jewish traits.'" [ROTFL]

"Though a state’s stamp of approval falls short of federal recognition, the benefits can still be substantial. In 2007, the Tennessee attorney general’s office issued an opinion saying benefits include eligibility to sell arts and crafts as Native-American-made and to receive minority scholarships and other education assistance; state-recognized groups can also be eligible for certain federal funds, including community block grants that assist with child care, employment, emergency services, health care, housing, home energy bills and other needs. At press time, the BIA had not responded to a request for its position on federal benefits to state-approved tribes, or on how federal laws, such as those governing the welfare of Native children, apply to such groups...."

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Posted by: loveskids ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 11:02PM

I have always been pretty guilable. My thoughts were: if the person is mormon why would they lie. I have learned in the past 5 years,especially the past 18 months,to trust very few people.When I learned the truth about the MMM I was outraged. That was one of my turning points in not believing. Learning that the church you always trusted has done some despicable things still haunts me. I guess because I keep learning more because I am addicted to this board.
Thanks Cabbie. I will keep coming and learning. I really appreciate your knowledge of all things mormon. Keep safe tonight.

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Posted by: anon ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 09:31PM

Here is a little more about that DNA consulting business and Meldrum:

The Mormon fringe is creating many problems for the American Indian with this nonsense.

Maybe it is only a matter of time before true tribal people take the Mormon Church into federal court for fraud over claims of gold plates and highjacking history without scientific evidence.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: December 31, 2010 10:40PM

I tried to tune in a couple of times because of course, my TBM mom thinks he's wonderful. But I lasted about a minute. I'll take you guys word for it. Actually, just the fact my mom likes him so much is telling.

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Posted by: athreehourbore ( )
Date: January 01, 2011 01:28PM

I thought Glenn was funny as hell when he was just telling fart jokes on the radio. His comedy kept me sane commuting to DC one summer around 2000. Now I see that he is using his powers for bullshit instead of true uplifting of the soul via distracting escape

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Posted by: nalicea ( )
Date: January 01, 2011 01:30PM

The comments on the news thread are very interesting, as well. One person even calls Glenn "a modern day prophet", in Glenn's defense. WTH!?

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