She said "I'm sick of hearing that gays had sex with 10 people. I'm not gay, but I did counter her by saying "They don't have sex with everyone they can. That's just a sterrotype that they get." Then I said its none of anyone's business to know what anyone's sexual orientation is. Its scary thinking what Mormonism did to her. And she's not one of those crazy mormons.

25% of heterosexual American men have over 20 sex partners in their lifetime. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promiscuity#Male_promiscuity)

And God willing, I will be among that percentage someday. I'd be there already, but I am careful about selecting partners who are not walking petri dishes.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 12:41PM by cl2.

Since coming out, I have found a lot of those gays. Unfortunately, they're more visible (they're usually quite proud of it and VERY willing to share), so there's the stereotype.

No one looking at me or even talking with me would know I'm gay unless I told them. My own siblings were shocked when I came out. What's changing opinions about gay marriage is those like me coming out that people can see are normal.

I think they're showing that they're not ashamed of themselves.

There's a difference between being proud of who you are and incessantly flaunting your sex life. The latter's boorish, gay or straight.

It is the anti-gay people that keep harping on it. I do not find many gays that run around making how many men they have had an issue.

Funny... I've only been out since November and I've run into it repeatedly.

Wow, what an expert.

Now, what evidence do you have that those people have not helped the cause of gay marriage? Oh, and that they are not normal?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 01:44PM by MJ.

I usually agree with you MJ, but wow... who peed in your cheerios this morning?

So far I have a straw man and ad hominem. What's next?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 01:45PM by Xyandro.

The pee in my cereal this morning is the flat out insult that A) I am not normal because I have had multiple partners and B) that I have no impact on the gay marriage debate because I am not your version of "normal"

I don't think he meant that people who have multiple partners aren't normal. I took it to mean that he was disgusted by men and women alike who flaunt, "I had sex with ten guy/girls last night."

That's how I took it anyways.

I have no problem with people who have multiple partners, gay or straight. Do what you like. What I object to are those who announce it to the whole world.

Of course all gays have had an impact on gay marriage. My point was that the more people see that gays are just like everyone else, the more sympathetic they are to the cause.

Got it.

Fuck who you want. But when you announce it to the world, you perpetuate the stereotype and bias people against gays.

Very nicely stated.

A Blatant redirect to avoid admitting one was really wrong.

However you would like to see it, I am sure is the only appropriate response.

Your announcing what you were gay was an announcement to the world that you were a pervert.

Thank Gawd some of use that announce the fact that we have had multiplet partners to the world have convened the world to change that. It is safe for you to announce that you are gay because many people that you deem "not-normal" convened others to believe differently.

Wow, how ego centric of you. Thanks for taking credit for tons of hard work done by countless people that you seem to view as not normal because they DIDN'T have multiple partners. Sheesh.

But coming out in November and claiming that his is the only way?

Seriously you are trying to claim that the two of us are comparable?

Your generation has clearly paved the path for mine. Coming out is *WAY* easier now than it was then. Times have changed. Clearly there are different approaches on gathering support for equal rights. We both happen to think ours is better. Nothing wrong with that.

What you may realize is, that the ideas you have may already have been tried and failed many times. So, think twice before you amp up and say that you have the true way.

They're not just my ideas. And just because it didn't work the first time doesn't mean that there's no hope for it. (Refer to Edison's attempts at a light bulb.)

You got something against cheerios?!??! How dare you make the assumption that I don't pee in my own cheerios!!

;-)

I thought I warned you about that? :P

Wow, how ego centric of you. Thanks for taking credit for tons of hard work done by countless people that you seem to view as not normal.

Didn't he say "people like me"? Not "I deserve all the credit."

My point is that he thinks that his is the one right way, that others that are not like him are not normal, etc.

That's not at all what he said. But if everyone agrees you're the gayest of the gays on RfM will you relax a little bit? Jeepers creepers.

Yes, exactly. Saying "those like me coming out" is not saying "I personally am, all by myself, just little ol' me, just moi, changing people's perceptions..." It's giving kudus to the act of coming out and to everyone who has come out.

"What's changing opinions about gay marriage is those like me coming out that people can see are normal."

That clearly states in regards to promiscuity, that the person uttering the statement thinks promiscuous people are not normal, that the cause of the change in opinion is "normal" gays like himself.

The poster is not making a blanket statement about coming out, he is making a judgmental statement that his is the way that works for changing minds. This, of course is BULL SHIT.

Yes, right, whatever you say, MJ.

(slams fingers in door jam so I can't type further)

You don't think it's strange that everyone who read his comment agree on what he meant except you?

Perhaps your judgment is clouded, you're on defense, and you need to take a step back for a moment and admit you might be projecting insecurities on Xyandro's posts.

You're the only one who seems to be upset right now. That should be a major clue.

At best, you can only speak for those that have responded, not everyone that has read it.

That sort of blatantly use of the appeal to authority logical fallacy just cost you the little respect I have left for you.

But someone that only came out in November taking credit?

So because I'm younger than you I don't matter? I guess I'll get to work on time travel so I can go back and make a REAL difference.

You simply do not know what has been tried over and over and failed.

The idea that it was the "normal" gays that change things when out in 1969 with the stonewall riots. Before that, gays were desperately trying to act normal to be accepted. After that gays were much more, this is who I am, and you will accept it. The acting normal didn't work then, it doesn't work now.

It was really more an appeal to popularity, not authority, but that's okie dokie.

It's simple math. You clearly don't want to give Xyandro the benefit of the doubt. Even when he clarified his statements you basically told him he was lying and that you're the authority on what he did or did not mean.

You're funny.

1) You clearly saw through my post to the root message: I, personally, am responsible for all changing attitutes towards homosexuality since before I was even born.
2) It's not normal to discuss your sex life where random moms on the street can hear, and it gives people a bad name when they do.

And who gets to define "normal"? Why is not being normal wrong in your book?

Normal: conforming to the standard or the common type.

Being gay isn't normal; the "standard" for humanity is clearly straight.

There's clearly nothing wrong with not being normal. But the more people can relate to you the easier it is to gather sympathy for a cause.

Xyandro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Normal: conforming to the standard or the common
> type.

OK, in Utah that would be Mormonism. So, everyone in Utah should conform to being Mormon?

>
> Being gay isn't normal; the "standard" for
> humanity is clearly straight.

Again, your ideas are flawed, There is a normal distribution of sexuality in humanity, about 3% of humanity is gay, that is NORMAL distribution for humanity. Gay is a normal part of humanity.

>
> There's clearly nothing wrong with not being
> normal. But the more people can relate to you the
> easier it is to gather sympathy for a cause.

So, if I, living in Utah, want to propose anti-Mormon ideas, I have to be a Mormon to convince people? I do not think so.

Again, that was tried before 1969 when gays were desperate to fit in, it didn't work. IT was only when gays started being proud of who were are, ALL OF WHO WE ARE, that we were able to show lots of progress.

Where on earth is your mother hearing homosexuals talk openly about their sex lives enough that she has become sick of it? Seriously, I'd asked her! Chances are she's not hearing these sex tales from actual gays and lesbians.

And, so what? Plenty of people have had sex with 10 people... some of them all at once! ;-)

There are always stereotypes for a reason, like Mormons are all judgemental, everyone but us are going to hell, shunning assholes. What? You say they aren't all like that? Well it's a stereotype for a reason....

Are you saying that the stereotype that "gays are all pedophiles" means that gays are a bunch of pedophiles?

That is just plain insulting bull shit.

I'm sorry if that is what you got from what I said. Did I need to clarify that there is dumb shit people believe and stereotypes? I don't think being gay=pedophile is a stereotype. I think it's dumb shit people think.

Rest assured, it is and it is believed by many people because of the stupid logic that you put forward.

My point was not that people believe stereotypes, but that it is wrong to make the claim that you did. You claim that stereo types have a reason based on the actions of those that are being stereotyped. Well, I ask you, what was the behavior that jews were doing that got them the stereotype of being like rats during the Nazi era?

There are countless stereotypes that are lies generated to demonize and marginalize those classes of people that are to be scapegoated or otherwise viewed as "the enemy".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 01:27PM by MJ.

I don't consider a lie to be a stereotype. Jews being like rats, a lie not a stereotype and truthfully I don't know how they came up with it except hate. I believe people that hate are the ones that consider a stereotype of a group of people the majority and not the minority.

Gays being pedophiles stems from pedophiles being mostly attracted to boys. Sadly the people that put that into a stereotype are to ignorant to see the difference between a boy and a man, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

"A stereotype is a belief that may be adopted[1] about specific types of individuals or certain ways of doing things, but that belief may or may not accurately reflect reality.[2]"

"may not accurately reflect reality." In other words, it can be a lie, no basis in truth.

Some stereotypes exist for a reason, is that better? You seem to just want to find offense where none is intended. Is that because you are someone that contributes to the original posts stereotype?

So because you like to brag about your promiscuity means you add to the stereotype of your own doing. Something that can be and apparently in your case is true, adds to the stereotype. Making it a little more accurate of a stereotype, not just a lie.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't believe because someone is homosexual that makes them a pedophile. I would say that is an inaccurate stereotype brought on by some people prejudices.

I said no such thing. I will discuss it, I am not ashamed of it, I don't care who knows it, but that is a far cry from bragging or liking to brag.

Now, stop rudely putting words in my mouth.

Conclusion

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.


http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Sexual promiscuity is not the exclusive property of homosexuals.

Likely the majority of people undergoing therapy for addiction to sex are straight.

Mom needs to get her facts "straight" before forming an opinion.

Getting rid of the stereotypes about gays that TSCC helps promote is one of the parts of "The Big Attitude Adjustment" I am making in my path out of Mormonism. If I want to experience a kernel of that kind of persecution, all I have to do is tell someone I'm an atheist. Bingo! You get a hint of what it's like!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 01:41PM by rationalguy.

My "ex" has had multiple--MULTIPLE partners--and I'd say he is pretty damn normal.

What about sports figures--like Magic Johnson. Everyone stands in awe of him getting the sex he wanted.

Just because someone is gay--they aren't allowed to talk about having multiple partners.

Of course we must attach the stigma to gays--not the general public.

And coming out nowadays compared to 30 years ago--an entirely different experience. MJ has been around to fight the hard fight. Everyone who has come out in the last 5 to 10 years owes a lot to those who have been there in the trenches.

And may I add--THANK YOU MJ for not marrying a woman before you came out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 02:12PM by cl2.

Gay or straight, our prudish society often looks down on those who are very promisicuous; but when it's a gay person, it's also reinforcing an existing stereotype.

And yes, it's very different to come out now, and MJ's generation is the reason for it. I respect that. I owe them. But I can still have my own ideas about how to advance the cause now that I've joined it.

Because you're so locked in the past that you don't see the present.