Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:18PM

Hi, I'm a racist.

Nowdays when someone like Michael Richards yells the N-word at some Black audience members he's upset with, he later emphasizes that he's not a racist. Don Imus, who got in trouble with his "nappy-headed ho's" comment, was adamant that he was not a racist.

I, on the other hand, am a racist.

I first realized that I was a racist when I was sitting in a large college physics class that had exactly one black student. As I was lazily surveying the room I noticed the one black face among all the white faces. Then the thought popped into my mind, "I bet he's just squeaking by."

Whoa! Where did THAT come from?

You have to realize that I grew up in a small town that had no Black people living in it at all--none--not one. So this racism can't have come from any actual experience I had with Black people. So where did it come from?

I'm older than most people here. I remember going home teaching with my Dad (It was called "Ward Teaching" back then) when the conversation turned to the recent news about integration of Southern schools. The conversation was about how this horrible thing was being foisted upon "us." I knew the "us" that they were talking about didn't really include any schools in our town since there were no Black kids.

I also remember racist-stereotypes in movies and on TV. If any of you have seen Spike Lee's "Bamboozled" you saw him show a lot of this kind of old footage. But with me there was something more. This racism that was in the surrounding culture was not just part of the culture--it was underscored by my Church.

It was taught as part of a sublime truth that Blacks were not the same as whites, and that God, Himself, gave them that mark so that we could know that. In "The Way to Perfection" by Joseph Fielding Smith, Blacks are referred to as an "inferior race," who were "made to feel their inferiority." Mark E. Petersen gave a sermon to college-level religion teachers (Institute, BYU religion dept etc.) pointing out to them that integration, the goal of the Civil Rights movement in the '50s, was against God's plan. The books "Mormonism and the Negro" and "The Church and the Negro," were part of my Dad's Mormon library. They also justified racism with many quotes from apostles and prophets.

It's one thing to have racist thoughts from your childhood that you never took too seriously anyway, but it's quite another to to have those racist ideas combined with your deepest feelings about truth and right.

Now, let me explain. By my action you would never know that I was a racist. It is not something I do, it's something deep inside me that was put there long ago that I do not like at all. When I am NOT thinking it often fills in with a racist "still small voice" like it did that day in the physics class. As long as I am thinking I have no racist thoughts or feelings toward anyone.

But there is a part of my "reptilian" brain that still holds to the racist ideas that I gathered living in a racist society and which were underscored and intensified by my faith and trust and obedience to Mormon leaders who gave a religious justification for all the racism around me.

And let's not talk about what they did to my attitude toward sex.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:34PM

I am too.

Like you, one would never know I am. I've fought like hell with people people who made racist comments since I was a kid.

But, I have to admit that when I see a black person, it registers. It's not like seeing someone with brown hair. I think it's tough for people to acknowledge or recognize the impact that society has on their thinking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:39PM

Me 3

I'm a racist, homophobic, sexist!

I try to make sure that my actions, words & body language never match my occasional stereotyping thoughts. I am finding that even my thoughts are improving as I deprogram myself from my Mormonic upbringing.

I am much less of each of these than I used to be. I am trying to be less and less of one.

On the racist side, I highly recommend watching the Ken Burns documentary "History of Jazz" it helped me develop a very deep respect for black-Americans.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:48PM

bc, I like the "history of Jazz" recommendation. I grew up surrounded by jazz, playing jazz. Most of my heroes as a kid were black. I've always identified with black people and felt like I had a connection. Put me in a room full of people, I'm more comfortable walking up to the black guy or girl.

Even with that, I've been influenced.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:51PM

Watching that documentary made me embarrassed to be a white person. Of course I would never do it, but I now have this impulse to go up to every black person I see and say "I am so, so sorry and embarrassed for what we white people have done to your race."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:42PM

I think I'm racist. Everytime a driver sails across 4 lanes of traffic with no signals, or does 20km/h under the speed limit in the fast lane, I always think "Asian driver".

But if it always *is* an Asian driver, am I still racist, or just observant?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:50PM

Guy cuts me off on the freeway, "JERK!"

Another guy cuts me off on the freeway, "JERK!"

Yet another guy cuts me off on the freeway, "JERK!"

Woman cuts me off on the freeway, "Typical woman driver!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 03:30PM

You're observant. Of what you want to see.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 08:47PM

Like how all taxi drivers aren't actually Indians, they're just evil white people who have become dark.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 08:53PM

Care to weigh in? Are you racist?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:50PM

It's the ones who deny up and down and swear they are totally PC but harbor nasty thoughts/secret actions that are just as appalling as the KKK member.

Personally, I get extremely irritated when people willfully play the part of the negative stereotype.

p.s If you didn't know, I'm multiracial and from where I'm standing, there's assholes in every race. They're just assholes who happen to have brown or white skin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 02:57PM by Itzpapalotl.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: taketheredpill ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 02:50PM

I think you both might be a little hard on yourselves. I completely understand your point of racist society and upbringing.

But, to me racism is more serious. We all notice different skin color, and culture. We may have a thought. But, it doesn't sound like you have an agenda, evil actions or intentions.

Speaking of society, I think society is now training people (especially White) to think they are a racist. Some people are, some are not.

My point is the definition of the word "racist." I think in order to be a real racist you have to have hatred, evil intentions, or actions.

But, I don't think you're a racist because a thought crosses your mind when you see a Black person.

Sounds like you are both good people fighting some bad dogma and rhetoric.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 03:34PM

I like you're comment. I understand where you are coming from and I sort of agree. I think for me one aspect of it is that I got tired of hearing people say "I'm not racist" or "I don't have a problem with gays" and so on, when you can see that they did have an issue.

I like pushing against that by talking about my own conceptions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 03:43PM

Its unreasonable to think learned behaviors will suddenly disappear the moment the light comes on.

I left the cult back in 1975 because of its racist, sexist and homophobic doctrines, yet still struggle with similar problems. That doesn't mean I'm a racist. Just means I have a lot of work to do.

I'm constantly working on it. That's a good thing.

I'm in Recovery from Racism.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 03:44PM by Timothy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: September 23, 2012 12:05AM

We cannot expect years of bad information to be swept away in an instant. But admitting to ourselves that we think bad things about somebody for an irrational reason is the first step.

It takes conscious effort, and sometimes some new experiences

Fortunately, everything I thought I knew about me, race, gender, and sexual orientation has started to heal, and with an open mind I am having a new and exciting experience on this planet.

Other people are my fellow travelers now. There will be people I don't like for whatever reason, but I try to look beyond my old ideas and see the person for who they are. But ultimately, I will not spend time with incompatible people just to prove I'm not racist, sexist, or homophobic. In fact, trying too hard just makes me look needy and awkward.

And if I wanted to live like that again, I'd go back to church.

T-Bone

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 04:15PM

I could have written Baura's post, word for word. I wasn't brought up racist. My parents were liberal for the 1950s. The little racism I encountered in Utah wasn't subtle back then and was easily recognized.

I currently live in a very multi cultural area. I have the same thoughts about people who obviously aren't 'real' Americans. Heck, I often have the same thoughts about people from the East coast.

I think it is an inborn tribal thinking pattern.

I have an elderly friend who is sliding into dementia and occasionally lets loose with an embarrassing tribal thought out loud. I don't look forward to that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moonbeam ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 06:02PM

Was waiting for this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: spaghetti oh ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 04:33PM

I'm a hair-ist.

I make a lot of assumptions about people base upon their hair.

I know that might sound silly but it's true. I don't take all the assumptions very seriously but they automatically pop-up when I see a person, more so than skin colour, religious markers, accents, clothing, etc. For me, it's all about the hair.

(That's why I'm always going on about Bednar's hair!)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: quebec ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 05:07PM

LOL!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 06:08PM

Recognition of irrational beliefs is the first step in dealing with them. There are healthy and unhealthy ways of dealing with it. I have known plenty of people of all races who lived up to all the stereotypes. I have also known a lot of exceptional people who broke all the molds. I guess it is better to wait until you really know a person before you start hating them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Naomi ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 06:53PM

I went to high school with people of all different races and ethnicities. People still were generally more comfortable with others that were like them. So I am aware of race, because I know that someone of a different race might not be as friendly to me as to someone of their own race. But if the difference doesn't matter to the other person, then it doesn't matter to me either.
If I want to understand how a person would feel being discriminated against because of their race, I just think about how I feel about sexism. That black guy in the college physics class probably worked much harder than anyone else to get there. I'm sure he had to deal with subtle discrimination all the time, things like not getting called on when he had the right answer and not having anyone to study with. I bet he felt that he had something to prove, worked twice as hard as anyone else and aced the class. And people around him still didn't expect much out of him...because of his skin color. How messed up is that? I don't know the guy, but that's what I would think, seeing the one black guy in the class.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 09:00PM

I was accepted into a medical program. I noticed it was all white people.

I asked one of the instructors why there weren't any black people in the program. She gave me questioning look, tilted her head, and said "you don't know?" I said, no, I don't.

What she said next blew my mind. "they're too stupid, that's why there aren't any here."

I was speechless. I've never forgotten that. It's one of the nastiest comments i've ever heard. I had zero respect for her after that. I did everything I could to avoid being in one of her classes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 10:39PM

sexismyreligion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That black guy in the college physics class probably worked much harder than anyone else to get there. I'm sure he had to deal with subtle discrimination all the time, things like not getting called on when he had the right answer and not having anyone to study with.

So true. I've taught impoverished African-American children for years, and if it's one thing I've learned it's how hard they have to fight to get an education. They battle numerous obstacles that would fell lesser people, and they deserve all the breaks that they can get.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 09:01PM

I remember a teacher in my dept. (back in the south) bragging one day about his funny little retort to a black student who mouthed off.

"See this sweater I'm wearing?" He pointed out to the kid. "Your grandmammy picked the cotton that went into it."

We all have to fight stereotypes and attitudes no matter our race, but then there are TRUE racist remarks and hate speech designed to demean and dehumanize. There's a difference.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: xyz ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 09:31PM

I've wondered about this question and those questions raised by others in this thread a lot.

Tonight I was on my way home. I live in a city with a subway system, and frequently there are people who go to the stations with their instrument and play for money. Some of them are good. Some of them are very good. Some of them possess transcendental talent.

I used to play several instruments tolerably. That exercise instilled in me a deep abiding love of all kinds of music. Consequently, I'm one of those people who encourage subway musicians by giving them a dollar.

This morning on my way to work, I heard a man playing a banjo. He was accompanied by a CD and he was doing pretty good. I and others dropped money in his case. He thanked his listeners by playing popular songs and other people on the platform smiled as he played each new familiar tune just once. Honestly, I can not remember the man's race.

Tonight, on my way home I was walking one of those long passageways between stations, and was greeted by the sweet strains of a well-played violin. Having once played one badly, I appreciate when others play it well. Those passageways, BTW, are excellent sound stages for musicians: the reverberation is intense. I imagined the musician to be a young student from one of the local music academies. As I approached around a curve, I could tell that the quality of the playing was exquisite. The musician was playing something I felt I must know, but couldn't place. As I neared, I got my dollar ready. Imagine my surprise when I found this person to be not a young hungry music student but a mature (40s? 50s?) African-American male.

Now how many scenarios run through one's mind when faced with this scene? I can tell you there were a lot that ran through my mind. As I dropped the dollar in his case he said 'thank you sir' without missing a beat. I said 'no, thank YOU.' As I got to the end of the passage, I stopped and watched him play. A man in love with his instrument, with his music. Others were moved to slow their hurry down and give him money. When he finished his piece, two of us clapped, he nodded his acknowledgement, and launched into another exquisite piece.

What a gift the man had! Was it racist of me to notice that he was Black and not something else ...Asian, perhaps, or White? Or was it ageist of me to notice that he was almost my age and perhaps underemployed because of it? What does it make me that I pondered his employment history and present status, given his age and race, his talent, and his presence in that subway tunnel depending on the generosity of strangers? I have no answers.

Dame Justice must be blindfolded, else she risks the accusation of bias and not properly performing her task. But I am not blind, blindfolded, or color-blind, and I wonder about all these things, too. Thank you, baura, for an intensely thought-provoking post.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 09:43PM

My God, xyz, your evocative and (as usual) well-articulated post made me cry. That was beautiful.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: September 21, 2012 10:10PM

Speaking of skin color as a sign of intelligence or lack of it,
I know a guy whose skin color is VERY dark brown, almost black,
and he quit school in his teens . . . He quit school because he
received his MD while still a teenager.

That's right--his MD. He became a medical doctor while in his
teens.

He wasn't able to do calculus until he was four years old.

Also, even though he's not a Christian, he is one of the most
"Christ-like" people I know.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: turnonthelights ( )
Date: September 23, 2012 01:21AM

"Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa."
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx


"The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2012 01:56AM by turnonthelights.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
  *******   **         **     **  ********   ******** 
 **     **  **    **   **     **  **     **  **       
 **         **    **   **     **  **     **  **       
 ********   **    **   *********  ********   ******   
 **     **  *********  **     **  **         **       
 **     **        **   **     **  **         **       
  *******         **   **     **  **         ********