I was attending a job interview talk with several other people including a TBM, lets just call him "Andy". It turns out that the highly qualified applicant was an exmo. Andy gets up after the talk and not realizing my opinion of things, leans over to the team lead and says about the job applicant, "Get rid of this guy."

Struck up a conversation afterwards, Andy knows I am Mormon-ish. Andy tells me that the exmo job applicant's last bishop called (all in the same profession) and told him that the exmo would be applying. They decided that being an exmo negated any skills this guy had, which were many by the way.

You will be happy to know that there is a religious test for many jobs where Mormons are involved. I would expect this in Utah and a few other key places. I guess I should have expected this where it happened but thought the area was more progressive. Andy always struck me as a bit smarmy and untrustworthy but this took me by surprise. "I would rather see a sermon than hear one any day." The sermon that Andy preached by his actions that day left me with less than zero respect for the putz.

Oh, and to the monitors from church HQ, "Andy" opened my eyes that day. He not only "got rid" of the exmo he created another one in the process. You might want to spread the word down your chain of command to cease and desist with the mistreatment of exmos and those who doubt. You are creating more apostates by your hateful, intolerant actions.

As a case in point, as I said we are all in the same profession. I know the rejected exmo very well...even better now. He thought about coming back to activity several times but events like that hateful display by "Andy" convinced him that he made the right decision by leaving. He does not believe because of the doctrinal and historical problems but likes many of the members and the culture of service to others. When he saw that the network and organization was actively used to damage people you erased the only redeeming quality you had.

Cheers

Another problem with lay clergy -- conflicts of interest.

You never know where a microphone or camera can be hidden. Need to get this type of stuff documented. And members wonder why people leave the church but don't leave the church alone.

dk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another problem with lay clergy -- conflicts of
> interest.
>
> You never know where a microphone or camera can be
> hidden. Need to get this type of stuff documented.
> And members wonder why people leave the church but
> don't leave the church alone.

Agreed. The fact that they think they can try to destroy lives and not expect the victims to speak up and vote with their feet makes me question their judgment.

So this "Andy" guy didn't make an attempt to hide his apparent distaste for the guy? The guy knew why he didn't get the job?

It's discriminatory. A good ole boys club. The sad part is, those good church members are often the ones who'll ruin a partnership in a second when their actions aren't ethical or they're running around and it hurts morale and is terrible PR.

This might be o/t but there are the good members who take your money or swindle you without a second thought. It happened to us several times in a nice neighborhood in Utah Valley. We had to go through a lawyer once cuz of this one neighbor who robbed everybody blind, didn't deliver the promised goods and then took off to parts unknown. Not to mention the good sisters in the ward always hawking the best natural products for you to buy, only a few hundred dollars to start.

Oh, and once our neighborhood all bought those little round laundry balls for $125 a piece to help out a large family. Then we saw those same balls at Sams Club for $9. And then found out they were worthless; didn't even work. We were suckers.

Conflict of interest is right. You need to document everything that happened that day verbatim, date, time, parties involved.

Some of the shadiest members I've known back home are the brown-nosed church leaders who stick to the money guys like glue. They get away with a lot that most members don't realize.

At least this guy has you as a friend now. How do you feel working there?

ducky333 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Conflict of interest is right. You need to
> document everything that happened that day
> verbatim, date, time, parties involved.
>
> Some of the shadiest members I've known back home
> are the brown-nosed church leaders who stick to
> the money guys like glue. They get away with a
> lot that most members don't realize.
>
> At least this guy has you as a friend now. How do
> you feel working there?

I have a very uneasy feeling working there. The TBMs are approaching retirement though and at this point there are no young TBMs being hired on. They seem to have forgotten that the good ol' boy network only works when you have a new crop of boys coming up through the ranks.

Do they have any idea of your feelings about the church? Have you put in a lotta years there, looking to stay long-term? Sorry you have to work in an environment like that.

I know two guys in Utah Valley who went into business together in a chain of sorts (can't say what type); one is a bishop and the other is a new investor. Long story short, the bishop and his wife saw this new guy doing better in his place than the others, so he was forced out 2 weeks ago. Idk how the bishop and wife accomplished it yet, but it stinks. It's really hurt this man who put his heart and soul into the place and really made it even nicer than the others in the chain; that's what was making the place successful. That's what you get for going into business with a tbm bishop who's a snake, though, I guess.

I hate writing in code. It sounds ridiculous.

I am guessing that it is better to be never-mo than exmo then. Something to tuck away for future reference.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/index.cfm

"Application & Hiring

It is illegal for an employer to discriminate against a job applicant because of his or her race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. For example, an employer may not refuse to give employment applications to people of a certain race."

atheist&happy:-) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/index.cfm
>
> "Application & Hiring
>
> It is illegal for an employer to discriminate
> against a job applicant because of his or her
> race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy),
> national origin, age (40 or older), disability or
> genetic information. For example, an employer may
> not refuse to give employment applications to
> people of a certain race."

He and I have discussed the EEOC aspect. Those discussions are best left off of a public forum. Even speaking in code is often too much.

Exactly. This is completely illegal! If you allow it to happen ONCE you allow it to happen again, and again to other people! Speak up. Do not allow this to happen in the work force. EVER.

This is unbelievably despicable, unethical and immoral. But it shouldn't surprise me.

Living thousands of miles away from any Morridor (east coast) for over 20 years, I've grown complacent about my apostate status. I don't hide my background with coworkers, and up until now it hasn't ever been an employment liability. Guess I'd better start being more circumspect about it.

I'm so sorry for the criminal treatment your friend received. I hope that he'll not only get a much better position with people who value his skills, but that the scum-sucking 'Andy' gets as good as he gives someday soon. Jail sounds kind of nice.

If he did that to a gay person he would be in deep trouble. But since it is an (religious discrimination) I guess it doesn't have any fallout for good old Andy.

would also do nothing about discrimination based on sexual orientation

You are probably right.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2012 09:40AM by liminal state.

Get an attorney. Sue, you'll win. The law is on your side and you have a witness.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2012 09:40AM by liminal state.

This thread solidifies my thoughts on finishing up my education here and then promptly moving somewhere else. We actually had a debate at the place I volunteer at last week over religion. I was happy (and somewhat surprised) to find out that one of my superiors is vehemently non-mormon. So ya, I got lucky when the conversation turned towards the new temple in Brigham that I had a nevermo supporting my comments. I realize and am reminded now that this is rare in Utah. Succeeding in Utah STILL involves who you know and what religion you portray. I may give it a shot when I graduate, but I'm thinking a move would be a better choice in the long run. Many of us have so much to offer but that doesn't seem to matter in Zion.

Tupperwhere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread solidifies my thoughts on finishing up
> my education here and then promptly moving
> somewhere else. We actually had a debate at the
> place I volunteer at last week over religion. I
> was happy (and somewhat surprised) to find out
> that one of my superiors is vehemently non-mormon.
> So ya, I got lucky when the conversation turned
> towards the new temple in Brigham that I had a
> nevermo supporting my comments. I realize and am
> reminded now that this is rare in Utah. Succeeding
> in Utah STILL involves who you know and what
> religion you portray. I may give it a shot when I
> graduate, but I'm thinking a move would be a
> better choice in the long run. Many of us have so
> much to offer but that doesn't seem to matter in
> Zion.

I hope that someday this world will cease operating like the so many disfunctional theocratic pockets that it currently is. I have become very cautious about people's mythical beliefs. It is a very dangerous thing to discuss religion in many places in the U.S. and worldwide for that matter.