To choose not to post Anointed One's interview is exactly the type of thing the cult is guilty of. He is now covering up and perpetuating the lies for the next generation.
How anyone who has seen the human carnage and knows the true history can protect the cult is beyond the understanding of anyone with any integrity whatsoever.

I used to donate to MS occasionally but not any more.

Grow a pair John. Stop pandering to cult members who hate truth and see lying as a valuable and honorable trait.

I don't know John personally... but when I decided that I had a responsibility to help people out of the church, I had to think long and hard about which strategy to take.

1 of my top choices was to navigate within the church.
It is one of the more effective ways, but also one of the hardest.

I haven't ruled it out all-together, but I am leaning away from that option.

That said- I don't know what John's motivation is.
But I don't think you should assume that it is pandering or cowardice until you have more info.

My 2 cents.

John Dehlin has a unique niche and if he joins us apostates, he will lose the ear of the many NOMs he represents.

If he were to post the Tom Phillips interview, he would lose his defacto church endorsement. This would eliminate an authorized source of accurate information and a forum for discussion for believers who want to explore Mormon contradictions.

The Tom Phillips interview has been picked up by various apostate and Christian sites. Those who want to hear it will still have it available.

In addition, I would like to mention that anyone who "hangs" with apostates is suspect, as we all know. It took a great deal of courage for Dehlin to have Tom Phillips on and to make the podcast available on the internet (even if not on his site). There is no other authoritative source for information about the second anointing. I appreciate Dehlin for this--just listen to his disclaimers at the beginning and you can hear the nervousness.

If he were a church stooge, he would never have aired it at all. I see Dehlin as a Mother Theresa of facts. He applies the bandages of truth to the wounds of the faithful who come to him suffering from cognitive dissonance. He assures him others are thinking the same thing, other members in good standing are questioning. This is a comfort to them and relieves their distress, freeing their critical thinking skills to continue to grow.

It's a good thing.

Just my 2 cents

Anagrammy

But he knew Tom's story beforehand - so why take the interview at all?

And why keep leading Tom on with talk of editing it when he clearly wasn't?

John keeps edited copies and unedited copies for people that want more info.

I always listen to the unedited copies.

now though I see him as sincere in his journey. I can't do what he does and have no desire to. Whether I agree with his chosen path I appreciate the fact that he's furthering the discussion.

I do think that the position he's in allows him to expose more LDS to less that pretty truths about the faith— and that's good. That said he might be inoculating a few along the way as well.

Journey? He knows the facts. He hears the lies. What's there to think about?

The whole idea of taking an impartial route is flawed. You can't have an impartial discussion when one side says 1+1=2 and the other says they have personal revelation that 1+1=9. There's no impartial, middle ground at all unless the first party agrees to entertain a demonstrable falsehood as possibly true if you twist reality enough and only look a one aspect of the whole at a time to avoid conflicts of doctrine and leadership regimes and fact.

It becomes insane and false. If a member can't handle the truth about their own religion that's a big red flag that your religion is a lie. Dehlin is lying by omission to protect Mormons from the truth. He's lost credibility and my respect.

+1

If John got himself excommunicated, that would be the end of his influence among the members. I imagine that the threats from the church go beyond membership and salvation, but most likely include legal threats that could destroy him and any future he might otherwise have had.

Most members will not listen to an excommunicated person, but they will consider the words of an active member. Yet in a world where the church needs to make itself trustworthy and desireable, it really needs people like John to help. John gives people who are freaked out a way to understand the machine. He helps people whose family members have seeen behind the curtain.

We've seen time and time again how the church changes to meet the expediency, but we've also seen how it demands that its members do not see the change. The old 1940's mentality guard is slowly being replaced with people who have a 1970's base of experience, and only when people reach an understanding of what is and what is not will the church become relevant to modern life.

I salute John. I am glad that he made this interview possible for all to hear. He does not need to publish it and lose his life to a legal nightmare, it is already out there by another hand. And in this he has already achieved much more than he would have by putting it on his website and having the church destroy it.

Agreed, John does much more good by doing what is necessary to retain his membership and still spread the word fairly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2012 01:33PM by SpongeBob SquareGarments.

In the interview, John stated that he is currently in discussion with his SP (or was it bishop?) about "some of these issues."

It could be that he's been advised to wait to post the interview until he's "settled" those issues himself.

Or it could be that LD$, Inc has pressured him not to make the 2nd Anointing laid bare a part of Mormon Stories, so that the membership who read/listen will not realize that there's no Jesus appearing, even for the most worthy candidates such as Tom.

Either way, I'm sorry that he hasn't (yet) posted it. My kids listen to Mormon Stories. And IMO, Tom's interview was the absolute most convincing I've ever heard that the LD$ church is a fraud.

I desire all to receive it.

The interview with Tom was great.

I also want to point out that Tom said about John something to the effect of "I'm not sure how you've been able to placate the church to stay a member with what you do"

I took that as an endorsement of John.

Heck, the fact that Tom did the interview at all I saw as an endorsement.

That said- I don't know John. I can't be sure of his motives. But, I lean toward thinking they are good ones.

I don't know John's motives but he has done a great service to the apostate community.

He has debunked the myths of why people leave the church. That alone makes him okay in my book.

While I listened to his interview with Tom, I thought perhaps he is trying to emulate my personal favorite interviewer Doug Fabrizio from KUER's Radio West. I've listed to Doug interview absolute nut cases but he still treats them respectfully because his job is to facilitate telling their story, their way. John has a way to go, as he sometimes comes across as too biased in favor of TSCC.

I'm less disappointed in Dehlin than I am puzzled by him. I don't understand how he walks the line. I don't see how he can know the lies, the bigotry and the abuses of the church and still claim any allegiance with them. Perhaps he's providing a service by affiliating himself with Mormonism, by creating an environment where members can hear the more uncomfortable truths of church history, culture and doctrine, but I would not do what he does (not that my opinion really matters).

I seriously considered navigating within the church to provert people (my word for the opposite of "convert")

...but my problem is that my moral compass is heavily centered on Integrity (even though that compass largely came from my family- which is to say, mormonism).

I still consider it from time to time, but I think my less-than-anonymous posts here have made my mind up that I will not try the clandestine method.

I agree with you, hsm. And who says your opinion doesn't matter?

I think he just couldn't resist the chance to interview Tom because he, like us, is so fascinated by this subject. Interviewees are few and far between and who knows if he'll ever find another one. I think the church, oops, I mean almightygawd, will be much more selective with who they choose to receive it from now on.

But once John did the interview, he realized what a ticking time bomb he was holding. He probably still isn't sure when it's going to explode. I'm just glad we have the privilege of being able to listen to the interview. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

The Mormon environment is very fluid these days. Something may well have changed that makes this interview too dangerous now for him.

Keep the popcorn handy.

IMO, it is simply a matter of time until he is ex'ed. The fact that the interview was done in the first place and subsequently distributed through means other than his own site has likely sealed his fate. I would expect sometime after the elections, he is out. The moderate GA friends he has will only be able to protect him for so long, IMO.

I think John is on thin ice with his Stake President. He mentioned he was not allowed to baptize his son in a recent media interview. I bet his Stake President told him not to put this interview up or else he would be excommunicated. I think it was very nice of him that he gave the audio to Tom Phillips and gave him permission to distribute it however he wanted. He could have said it was done for Mormon Stories and he is the boss of Mormon Stories so it belongs to him. Hopefully he won't still be excommunicated since all he did was have a discussion and he didn't use his site to spread the forbidden information around. I hope he can continue on with Mormon Stories for a long because I think it is helping to get a lot of people out of the church, even if he says that is not his goal.

I have nothing but respect for John. I ESPECIALLY like how he has confronted the mopologists with their obfuscations of facts, and yet he has done it subtly amd inoffensively in most cases. He provides great guidance to questioning members. He walks a fine line -- a balancing act that few could do.

He may seem puzzling now, but I think in the future John Dehlin will be viewed as an exmormon hero. Who knows how many people he has helped out of TSCC and how much tithing revenue TSCC has lost because of him. I hope he doesn't get exed any time soon because that will seriously hurt his ability to keep helping people out.

I don't think TSCC will ex John and make a marter of him to his followers. They will more likely think of a method to scare his followers back into the fold and thereby eleminate his influence. Much more effective.

I think it'd be a good thing if TSCC would allow their members to openly question some things and still be considered good and loyal members. I just don't see it happening any time soon...More's the pity!

yah...... it is disappointing that John cant do Mitt Romney or Gordon B.S. Hinckley level damage to LDS Inc /the MORmON corporation, but he's doing more than me ( and I do try) and most likely more than You, so how disappointed can you really be in the guy?

The church didn't let John baptize his son??? Why? And why would he want to?

I've said since day one John Dehlin is part of the LDS Church's program quit those who leave by giving them some feel good place to stop off as they go thru the emotions of learning they were in a dangerous cult. It is pretty obvious. Listen to him name drop and the pride he takes in knowing so and so over and over. Silly Mormons will fall for anything. BTW what an awesome interview this man gave...you have to look far to find a Mormon who is honest...most will just learn it is a crock and go along with it for gain...John in his own little niche way. Sad and damaging, especially for a guy who wants to be a doctor of psychology and take an oath to do no damage.