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Posted by: reinventinggrace ( )
Date: August 26, 2012 11:46PM

Hi All,

Who is on The Secret Committee that runs LDS, Inc?

In my previous thread about "will anyone actually be sitting in the "Prophet" seat at General Conference, it brought up some speculation as to "who is actually running The Corporation."
Link: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,615456

So, let's gather our info and put together a few theories.

1) It's a 50 Billion $ outfit. Major investments, a couple million adherents to please, a crowd of geriatrics to stage manage, a PR system, etc. There have to be some brains back there somewhere, some corporate offices, suits, secretaries, tech dudes, etc.

2) Anagrammy wrote "The church has been run by a Secret Committee which used to be headed by Hinckley." Which makes sense. Hinkster took the reins in the early 80s, made sure everything was run shipshape. That's nice, but to figure out who is pulling the puppet strings, we have a question:
a) Did Hinkster run it "smart" where he appointed sharp people and let them be in charge, or
b) Did Hinkster run it like a despot, -periodically fire his top bosses for random reasons.
If it's a), those peeps are still in charge. If it's b), then it's a madhouse.

3) Folks talk about "The Presiding Bishopric" running the finances of the church, and so they're really the ones in change. But, last March they all got "released" at once and a whole new crowd put in. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiding_Bishop_(LDS_Church). Burton had been in there since 1992, and the whole Bishopric hadn't changed en masse since 1985.

This puts a dent in the theory that the P.B. runs the show. But, maybe, the P.B. decided to release itself and fill "shadow" leadership roles in The Secret Committee.

So, does anyone know Br.s H. David Burton, Richard C. Edgely or Kieth B. McMullin personally? Are they playing golf with their sond-in-law and shopping at City Creek Mall with their wives? Or are they getting in Lincoln Town Cars at 7:30 every morning and driving to The COB? That would be a clue as to whether these three are on The Secret Committee.

4) An organization like this has to have dozens of staff that have a pretty good idea as to what's going on. Of who is asking for what reports, who calls the shots in meetings, what meetings are held to call the shots, etc. There must be a bunch of staffers that know how LDS., Inc. is dealing with the PR issues of the Romney candidacy, etc. These folks probably leak out stuff, frustrations, etc. Does anyone know them? Have you heard stories that can be pieced together?

5) We have a pretty good idea that leadership is somewhat fractured. If they were really doing a good job at being The Men Behind The Curtains we'd see a bit more of a proactive approach in the Post-Hinkster era. Instead they've gotten themselves burned pretty good on the Gay Marriage issues, they've taken a lot of heat for The Mall. They could have dodged those things better if they had someone with a good brain at their disposal, who could lead, and lead people willing to be followed.

Since leadership is fractured, there's angst, there's probably not a tight cloak of secrecy, and these guys need to vent sometimes, and they get fired and pissed sometimes. Thus, folks that live on the Wasatch Front sometimes interact with them -- at the car repair shop, on the golf course, at parties -- and probably hear their stories.

6) The actual guys at the top are living, breathing humans, living on the Wasatch Front. They drive nice cars, work for The Church, they have lives. They may or may not have low level GA titles. But, they're going to have a different air about them than the rest of the rats and hamsters following directions at The COB, They are "The Man." They run the show. A guy can't really hide that in his persona.

********

So, throwing this out there for ya'all.

a) Do you know who any of these peeps are?
b) How does their system work?
c) What ways is it functional?
d) What ways is it dysfunctional?

I think we should be able to piece together clues with the information we have on this board and come up with some pretty accurate theories.

Takers?

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 26, 2012 11:52PM

The LDS Church organization at the top is a well oiled machine with carefully defined responsibilities that carries out all of it's work both church related and non church (non profit) related. It functions whether there are weak links or not. I have been told the back up leadership is the Presiding Bishopric. Can't confirm it, however. There are dozens of departments (and their heads) that handle all of the many corporations. It's top heavy with attorneys also.

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 01:10AM

I don't have a clue whose running the machine. Neither do the members.

Anyone who gives money to the machine that is being run by_____? is a fool. You say you trust the church? WHO is 'the church'? Nobody seems to know the answer to that. It's certainly not the members. They've all been anesthetized and are running on delusion.

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Posted by: yours_truly ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 01:18AM

In an authoritarian subsystem.

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Posted by: twirlnwhirl ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 02:57AM

This article was excellent on LDS finances the most comprehensive I have seen. It touches on some of your question.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

Sorry if you guys have allready read this article. It was big news a few months back.

I am also interested in the question of who is running the show. The big 15 all have big money.

Brigahm Young was a millionaire in the 1800's factoring in inflation that would be the equivilent today of a mult- billionaire.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 03:50AM

Technically, Monson has full legal ownership of the church, but Monson has lost his marbles.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 03:59AM

One problem you have to keep in mind is that for power to be real, it has to be recognized at some point. This is the whole problem with shadow government conspiracies, though in the case of something like the church, it is a bit more real of a possibility.

The peons have to recognize their superiors in order to take orders. Now when you start to get up there however, you can start to have a bunch of special interest. The church has seven billion dollars worth of tithing income a year alone. Plus all the returns on their various investments. Money draws interest, and if you are unwilling to use your money, someone else will soon step forward to help you use it.

I bet there are hundreds of guys, construction company owners, guys who own law firms, investors, PR Agencies, that all want a piece of that pie, and who all wine and dine the GAs behind the scene, until they get what they want. Well maybe not wine, maybe 7-up and dine.

The end result is a church that acts in a bunch of irrational ways.

There is a silver lining though. Sooner or later an ARAMARK like company is going to realize the Mormon cash cow, and soon after the brethren will receive a revelation where they contract out chapel cleaning to their likes. Heck, some apostles family may even be starting such a firm, and the whole reason they fired the janitors was part of a ten year plan to get that cleaning money for themselves.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 04:22AM

Jesus runs it doesn't he?

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Posted by: yours_truly ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 04:30AM

Right.... (cooocooo)

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Posted by: jong1064 ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 06:19PM

Is that raptor Jesus or regular Jesus?

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Posted by: smith ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 09:45AM

This is a very interesting thought. I too wonder who is at the helm of LDS inc. Now that I no longer consider myself a Mormon, I can clearly see that the GA are feeding the members of the church crap. I find it very strange how people sit there at church and eat this crap right up.

Oh well if it makes them happy then so be it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2012 09:45AM by smith.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 04:07PM

It was the committee who proposed the lifting of the ban on blacks holding the priesthood in the late seventies. This information comes from SWK himself in his writings. According to him, it was "discussed" several times, but the quorum was not in agreement; therefore, it was never implemented. On the last occasion when it came up, there were numerous civil discrimination lawsuits pending in the courts and that happened "coincidentally" to prompt SWK to "take it to the Lord, as it were pleading with him on behalf of our black brothers whom we love..."

Since it is my view that he was the last self-believing prophet, he did not consider it a revelation since the idea and decision came through "administrative channels" and so he called it an administrative decision. When it was published, he insisted it be called an "announcement," nothing more. It appeared as a flyleaf between scripture books before the D&C in my quad from that era.

You can imagine that part of being called to the committee would be to take a sacred oath of anonymity. What? Mormons keeping secrets? Yeah, that's not a new policy. I can imagine that it may have involved an angel with a flaming sword or allowing yourself to be murdered, or maybe just straightforward killing yourself if you ever reveal anything that takes place in the Committee.

The Committee was originally an advisory group to the first presidency but was enormously strengthened in power when Benson was incapacitated and they successfully managed the church from Behind the Curtain.

The embarrassment of SWK--his book, his mistakes, further solidified the need for leaning away from power in the hands of one man who had the ear of the Lord to the normal business-decision-making model of committees and subcommittees who are out of the power hierarchy.

These are all just my opinions and conclusions based on my own observations. I have no inside knowledge at all and look forward to my own idea of the Second Coming. That's when those who were there "Come" forward and tell what they know, like was done in Joseph Smith's time.

Where's a William Law when you need one?

Anagrammy

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Posted by: reinventinggrace ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 06:36PM

Thanks for the speculation.

Some follow-up questions

SusieQ -- it sounds like you've bumped elbows with some of the well-suited COB employees. Do you think any of them are near the top of the decisionmaking structure?
Like "this dude I met a my niece's wedding was a high-paid lawyer for The Church, but I don't think he makes any decisions, he just does advisory work that feeds into their decisions about what policies should be"
Or "My son's neighbor is a high-paid lawyer, I suspect he's one of the group that decided to orchestrate the high-profile opposition to Prop 8 in 2008."

anagramy -- thanks for the links to the Kimball book, I've never read those before. But that was a generation ago, the power structure has probably morphed a bit since then.

twirlnwhirl -- I haven't read the article, don't have time today, but its on my list. Does it offer any insight as to who actually makes the decisions, or what the governance structure is?

**********

Here's another question -- which of The Big 15 are on The Committee? I'm thinking Dallin Oaks must be, since they called him to be an apostle because they wanted a lawyer in their midst, kinda code words for this sort of thing. Now, he is the longest-serving Big 15 with all of his marbles in good care (it seems).

Others, maybe Bednar, Holland? Though Holland really didn't have much stage managing for his BBC interview, so I don't think he's all that savvy.

************

& what about those "retired" presiding Bishops? Does anyone live near them, have nieces in preschools with his grandkids?

I can easily see any of the "General Authorities" that are also on the Secret Committee being excited to lose the GA status and go emeritus just so they don't need to get propped up and mumble a bunch of religious crap to the masses and ward off piles of fawning bimbos and ass-kissing priesthood holders...

RG

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 28, 2012 11:36PM

It's very difficult to get to the real inner workings of the LDS Church. However, we can and do... well.. lets be honest..speculate! Having worked for the LDS CHurch at one time, I did hear some "scuttle butt" about what was really going on. There is no way to validate anything, but it's all very possible, especially when speaking with someone that has worked in the COB! :-)

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 04:43PM

Remember how we figured out that Cheney was running things during the Bush administration?

He was also a loose cannon, but in a different way.

This is how big corporations keep the drama away from the stockholders. We saw who was the real boss when they whisked Cheney in a fast arm-carry down to the safe room in the basement while they let the so-called Commander in Chief sit in a school room for half an hour.

Now consider that this school was ON HIS ITINERARY and his presence there was exposing him to danger AND endangering those children by making their little school a military target.

Furthermore, afterward Bush flies around asking "What's happening, what's happening" while Cheney is quietly directing operations.

Bush wasn't surprised by being in charge, so you can count off who was in his Committee---McNamara, Cheney....etc.

Now take the same skills and apply it to the Q15. Look at their published activities. Notice who is where and what they are doing. When a crisis happens, like this one with Mitt Romney, who flew home from their foreign assignments? Who rushed to the COB in the middle of the night or early in the morning. Who are the drivers?

This is how snoopy anti-Mormons got some of the information on Ezra Taft Benson and knew he was a figurehead long before the members knew.

You know a coup took place in the Mormon Vatican. The leader of the Committee wasn't originally in the succession for the status of prophet. However, since he was in charge of the organization of power, he fixed that.

I know because we used to all be grateful God would never allow the SOB would to be prophet. We all loved Monson because he was so spirchual.


Anagrammy

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 06:57PM

i know who ISN'T running it...

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Posted by: Battle-Ax ( )
Date: August 27, 2012 07:02PM

I think the wine and dine thing is right. I see several times a year a member of the Twelve at a Jazz game not in the cheap seats but on the front row, Club 500 seats or Sky boxes. I have never seen one in the Jr. Jazz section of $10 seats.

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Posted by: elcid ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 05:03PM

I think it is a board made up of the coherant apostles. The board has a chairman that rotates and sets the agendas based on input from the others. The current chair is probably Oaks or Perry. But it is truly a group effort.

They run things.

Below them are sub-committees, seventies, business executives from the various owned businesses.

From the outside looking in the church is clearly run by committee. A "secret" CEO is not likely. They make very few earth shattering decisions. They move slowly. They react slowly. It is a committee.

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Posted by: ironmann ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 05:19PM

I am friends with Richard C. Edgley, former first counselor in the Presiding Bishopric and I can tell you he isn't going into the COB everyday. He's out working in his yard and seems retired. He intimated to me that he had some offers out there from various companies that he would consider, but I don't know if he's doing anything yet.

He is a genuinely nice man, and I know from him the PB was in charge of the building the Lord' Mall, but he claims to me that he had a weekly meeting with the 15 and everything hangs on their approval.

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Posted by: lulu ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 06:17PM

Nobody.

I don't think Monson is in a position to do much at all.

I've heard #2 apostle, Perry, has dementia, remember his kick Packer in the shin comment, not a really sane comment, and I'm sure he's gone down hill since then.

My guess is that Eyring and Uchtdorf try to agree as much as they can to keep things from going totally off the tracks. They probably have to coordinate a great deal with Monson's personal secretary. They probably also keep a close eye on the PR department. They probably try not to piss Packer off. But for the most part they just try and keep on following old policies, no new innovations for now. If something out of the ordinary did come up, they'd need the 12 solidly behind them. A good program for a static state.

Although the 12 have specific assignments, Packer, and formerly McConkie, stuck their noses into anything they wanted, especially at BYU. Packer is no longer on the BYU Board of Trustees, but if he called Samuelson up, I think Samuelson would jump. I'm gonna guess that other than Packer, the others of the 12 stick closer to their assigned portfolios. They strike me more as conscensus builders to Packer's free lancing.

I think the interesting questions are ones like, Eyring and Uchtdorf tell the Presiding Bishop to do x. Packer calls the Presiding Bishop and tells him not to do x, to do y. It's clear that 8 apostles think z is the best option. What's the Presiding Bishop to do?



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 06:31PM by lulu.

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 06:29PM

I recently tried to find clips of Monson on youtube. I was quite surprised to not find anything - no candid unauthorized shots. In this day and age, it is surprising that people are not pulling out their phones and getting a shot when they see him.

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Posted by: skeptic ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 06:45PM

I found this article on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

Most of it is pretty generic, but it jogged a few memories.

No outsider names are listed except for the big 15. BUT I remember and verified that in the 1980's and 1990's before his death, David Kennedy was a very big (but somewhat quiet) honcho in Salt Lake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Kennedy

Now, if that name means nothing to you, check his resume

1. All sorts of US Government posts....including Secretary of the Treasury for Richard Nixon, US Ambassador to NATO

2. He served his entire mission in the mission home, serving under James Talmage and John Widstoe

3 Chairman of Mayor Richard Daley's Mayor's Committee for Economic Growth (your anntenna should be going up with the mention of Mayor Daley)

4. Starting in 1962, he advised David O. McKay, Harold B. Lee and other church leaders on BANKING MATTERS, including restructuring Zions First national. (Banking matters?????)

5. Was CEO of Continental Bank of Illinois. At some point, he worked for the Federal Reserve Board.

Late in his life, he was named as Ambassader at Large for the Church, traveling and meeting with government leaders of foreign countries on behalf of the Church.

Died in 1996.

May I humbly suggest that this is the type of person that you are looking for.

In addition, the "committee" that y'all seem to be looking for sure sounds like an incarnation of the old Council of Fifty.

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Posted by: lulu ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 06:58PM

Interesting take.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 07:53PM

Probably run just like any other corporate machine only they just have different titles to mask their true functions. It is a machine with no one person running it. Only they have hapless people giving them money for nothing and they aren't held accountable to disclose what they do with the donations.
Their secret investigating group is for damage control. Most corporations have them. They tell workers not to speak directly to reporters but to tranfer them to their PR department.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 07:57PM by suckafoo.

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Posted by: ex_sushi_chef ( )
Date: September 19, 2012 09:32PM

re: David M. Kennedy: his name is in the book called,"ADL and Zionism", as a money laundering partner/participant. so, there must have existed mormon mossad connection since at least around that time....

used to have a complete english version available, but seems now gone....

"ADL and Zionism"
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGdUcEblpQ_mQAy7xXNyoA?p=%22ADL%20and%20Zionism%22&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701

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