I sister missionary who served in my student ward recently announced via Facebook that she's converted to born again Christianity. She's all Jesus in your face now.

I question, which is worse? To have Joseph Smith pushed in your face, or Jesus pushed in your face?

Here's her announcing post:

http://fearlessjess.blogspot.com/2012/06/walking-on-water.html

Reading that made me throw up a little in my mouth...

I suppose for some the morg may be a gateway drug to even more screwed up forms of delusion. Being in Abilene, I hate to think about the narrowing of mind and concentration of hate that is to come for her. Makes me sad:(

Abilene is full of Jesus pushers. She was probably overwhelmed by them when she got there. At least she doesn't have to wear garments anymore.

OMG out of the frying pan and into the fire!

There are aspects of Mormonism that are totally lacking in the "born again" Christian movement.

"Born again" Christians --

**can attend whichever church they choose--it's not assigned based upon their location.

**do not have a secret ceremony where they pledge everything they have to some organization.

**are not required to send their sons out for two years, with no visits, obeying orders from some "president" and be told how they are not faithful enough and not working hard enough.

**decide for themselves what underwear they wear.

**don't have a meeting with a leader at the end of the year to make sure they gave enough money to the organization.

**don't have "worthiness" interviews to make sure they have been obedient enough to the organization.

**can invite whoever they want to their wedding.


**etc.


Born again Christians can be as obnoxious as Mormons to the rest of the world but they are not in the controlling clutches of a powerful cult the way Mormons are. So I'd say it's a definite improvement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 01:42PM by baura.

good points, hadn't thought about it that way. I wonder if any of that had something to do with her switch?

If she's in one - then it's a tie.

If she's not - then she went from a destructive cult to a church that believes in unrealistic stuff.

I guess, Xtianity wins in that regard.

Most of those Christians believe in Hell. At least Mormons don't, really. Just a crazy multi-level heaven where the lowest one is said to be about like earthly existence.

The idea that everyone, no matter how nice, goes to hell to be tortured forever unless they accept Jesus is a bit off-putting, to say the least.

Since it's all BS, I content myself with marveling at all the crazy ideas, which are only limited by the human imagination which is exactly where they all came from!

I really think the extreme Born Again is worse. They have the same nonexistent standards for evidence, and they are less aware how annoying they are. At least Mormons suspect people think they are weird and are more secretive.

The Jesus mindset bothers me because the believers are so sheep like. They abdicate responsibility for anything and everything to Jesus. It’s a lot more obvious in the Born Agains (at least the extreme evangelical types I see here in the South).

Plus, the whole “I’m a sinner but I’m saved” seems unhealthy to me. (God made me flawed but I’m so lucky he likes me anyway!)

The extreme ones who believe in a hell are, well, hateful IMO. What kind of person thinks it is OK to praise a god that operates that way? Maybe they are just fearful of what a god might do to them if they don’t play along. It’s a disturbing concept to me. Sorry, I digress.

It's a powerful set of memes they have going.

When I was a TBM and heard of people leaving the church to join baptist or whatever else bornagain religion, I just scratched my head in amazement. Now that I'm an exmo and have a different perspective on religion and life in general, I still scratch my head when I hear of someone going bornagain. Maybe deep down inside some are hedging their bets, too afraid to admit to themselves their disbelief. I don't know. The way I see it, LDS inc is another branch of fraud, out of many thousands out there. Including those prophets of the OT. I mean, these dudes must have been those bearded nut jobs crying out repentance just like the ones you see today in downtown. The difference is, people don't listen to the ones today. They just put all their stock into the bible, which was just as man-made as Joseph Smiths version of events.

"Including those prophets of the OT. I mean, these dudes must have been those bearded nut jobs crying out repentance just like the ones you see today in downtown. The difference is, people don't listen to the ones today."

Bingo. For some reaon people will dismiss the nut job preaching on the downtown corner that they CAN see yet will unquestionly accept the nut jobs preaching in old books they CAN'T see. Go figure.

What were the JS types doing back in Bible times? Writing and preaching, I'd wager. Just as they always have. The difference is that the Catholic Church selected which books should be taken a the the "Word" of god. Go figure!

If I had to choose, I would choose being a Born-Again Christian over being a Mormon in a heartbeat.

BACs have far more choices than LDS. There's a whole lot of churches to choose from and you are not restricted to a time and worship location as you are as a Mormon.

I, for one, can reject the Fundamentalist churches that support the Religious Right. I do not have to subscribe to such idiotic ideas as New Earth Creationisim or such literalist takes on the Bible that makes you a fool in the light of Science.

Since praying about becoming a Mormon in 1975, I have experienced a great deal of spiritual insight of the trouble of Mormonisim. I also continued to gain spiritual insight into the problems of Christian Fundamentalisim and its stupid hatred of women and GLBT people based on a false reading of the Bible. CA's Proposition 8 ended my acceptance of Evangelicalisim.

I have been Christian since 1968, but I have had to toss out a lot of crap from my BAC church experience and 'christian' radio.

Popoluvh has every right to be disgusted with what is being encountered in Abilene. If the BAC church and 'christian' radio were my sole basis of my faith, I would be an athiest.

Worshipping a dead con-man, or a made-up God?

Tough one.

Actually for my money I'd say there are born-again cults more destructive than even the most rigid FLDS clans. The Gothard folks (like the Duggar family belongs to) as well as other "Quiverfull" groups. They keep their girls indentured til marriage, neither sons nor daughters get to date or get any education beyond homeschool and unaccredited online or Christian "colleges."

The Remnant Church, founded by Gwen Shamblin, teaches how and why to beat children starting with infants. Other cults like her's follow the teachings of Michael Pearl, which has grown a whole industry around hitting defenseless kids.

Other groups, such as the End Timers of Lake City, FL are led by ruthless dictators who take license plates of any outsider who gets close to their compound,and may suddenly outlaw things such as dogs or certain songs. The believers are in lock-step.

There are cults that take "no medicine" to such an extreme they forbid aspirin or prescription eyeglasses. Others are into demon busting and forbid toys, candles, paintings, etc. Their worst offense is exorcising kids and "Zion births" which has led to untold suffering and death among women.

LDS or born-again? Maybe the LDS is the safer bet if only because the parameters are (usually) set by Salt Lake authorities. Too many LDS members are educated, well-off and "in the world" to not question bizarre new "revelations." Members are not forbidden TV or the internet; they aren't clositered.
The off-shoot cults of the LDS are, of course, as potentially deadly as the born-again cults. And like frogs in beakers the members are gradually lulled into a place where they have no issue with whipping their infants or living with the pain of an abscessed tooth until maybe God will heal it.

Funny how, in 2012, the majority of the world seeks to enslave itself in one way or another. Circumscribed life, fear of education and culture, oppressive clothing, dietary restrictions.

And, sadly, anyone with a Bible and a a forceful/charming enough personality can start his or her own cult tomorrow, and quickly have both a following and unlimited power. And a bank account to rival Romney's.

Not "more" destructive--"as" destructive. Sorry.

I'm from a small farming community with a LARGE number of Born-again Christians. I think I can say that, without a doubt, BACs tend to be worse than TBMs. Take everything you don't like about talking to the most self-righteous TBM you know, and amplify it. Don't get me wrong, not all BACs are like this, just like all TBMs aren't like that.

A few weeks ago, I was out eating at a local restaurant. I was sitting by myself, watching the Olympics on the TV (as were several people around me) when a large group from the "after church" crowd came in and sat down in my section. Immediately, they turned the TV off without asking anyone. When several people (including me) complained to the waiter, they explained that they were there to have a Bible Study group and the TV would have been an unwanted distraction. When their food came, the guy that turned the TV off stood up and said "Excuse me, could I please have everyone's attention? I just wanted to ask you all to please bow your heads and pray with us..." and proceeded to lead a prayer. A few people joined, but most just groaned. I was finished with the whole scene, so I mumbled (loud enough to be heard) "Oh f***ing hell..." and got up to go pay my bill. While I was waiting, the prayer leader came and tracked me down and let me know that I had offended him and his group. I apologized that they felt that way, but told them that I was offended to have my Sunday afternoon plans interrupted by THEIR Bible group. Of course, this made him fall back on the old "Oh, so when a group of Christians want to gather together to study and praise their God, that's offensive, but..."

Not to get too political, but most BACs are usually the ones ramming their doctrine down everyone else's throat in the form of legislation.

TBMs get under my skin, but at least I can come vent about them here. BACs are just too over the top for me. I'll take a TBM over a BAC any day of the week, and twice on Sunday (after all, at least TBMs don't usually go out to eat on Sundays...)

I relate to your experience. I see things like that at work daily.

It's like they think you will respect them if they flaunt their Jesus-ness.
It's like they think you already agree with their interpretation of the world- or know you should.
It's like they are persecuted if they are not allowed to shove this stuff everywhere.

Yesterday at a restaurant a bunch of them had to rearrange all the tables so they could hold hands to pray. It was noisy and disruptive to the other diners. This happens all the time. It comes with the territory here in AL and I'm here by choice so I respect that.

At work, some of the areas have themes and motivational statements posted (one month it might be the theme of teamwork, another theme might be prepardness). Nine times out of ten, the supporting statements are scriptures. The intent from management was for it to be about business quotes. Jesus will provide the strength. Gah!

Can you imagine how pissed they would be if I put up a quote from the Koran?

What annoys me is that they NEVER seem to extrapolate how they would feel if their religion was not the majority. Law supporting Christianity? Good. Law supporting other religion? Bad. Really?

I would rather hear about Jesus, at least there is truth to the love of Christ.

One of the few things I miss about living in one of the more conservative, fundamentalist bastions of Mormondumb is that on Sundays, I felt as though the world were mine, and mine alone, (okay, I shared it with the hispanic farmworkers...). No lines at Walmart, no lines at restaurants, the highways were emptier, the streets quieter, it was magical. Having lived among many BACs in the last couple years, I can say they have a much different interpretation of keeping the sabbath day holy, 1 pt in mormon favor. At the same time, they don't treat me like I have AIDS or am a leper if I drink coffee and buy beer... 1 pt in BAC favor, I'm gonna say its a draw.

I did really enjoy the Lutheran church I attended last week, very positive, great message, non-judgmental, apolitical, nice people, and coffee at donuts!!

Thank you Sparty, Dagny and Carmara for exposing the evils of much of Born-Again religion to the board. I fully endorse your posts.

I have no idea which is worse but to be dumb enough to fall for both of them is sad, very sad.

It is hard to say which is worse. It really depends on how unhealthy Mormonism made her versus how unhealthy this new religion will make her. A lot of that depends on how she decides to approach things as well.

I personally like the Mormon style fiction more than I like the BAC style fiction. Mormons and Mormon culture is much more interesting than the "OMG I LOVE JESUS!!!" style of many BACs.

There are varying degrees of re/oppression within any religion.

I think much depends on:

Where you live
How your parents treat religion/have you trained/train you
Your personal experiences

Stuff like that

Some Mormons growing up in more rural areas might have a different experience than those growing up in a city.

Some people of any religion are exposed to more variety -- people, friends, places, ideas -- than others.

The biggest mistake my psychoreligious mother made: she let me attend my classmates' bat and bar mitzvahs. That got me to thinking why kids believe what they do (their parents teach them), and I was mentally on my way out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 04:29PM by Beth.

I was born correctly the first time.

I kid. Are you saying we are all born atheists? If so, I agree.

Or do you mean the use of forceps in your delivery?

Nyuk!

Most born-again Christians do all they can for their faith on a real volunteer basis. They are able to really have discussions about the scriptures and don't simply get told what to believe. Some are, of course, led into wrong directions, but the love is more real than in TSCC. There is no comparison.

what a dumb@ss. I can't even say I feel sorry for her. You realize that she'll probably find the link back to her blog here at some point right? Any statcounter will show her the hits. (not saying she's smart enough to have a statcounter given her religious choices but it's possible)

Not worried about that. Maybe she'll learn that she made the right decision (leaving the Mormon church) for the wrong reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 04:57PM by mondaymorning.

BAC's do have much In common with Morgs. I will say while it's nice that she can wear underwear of her choosing, and shop on Sundays, she's traded one lack of reality for another.

Instead of focussing on JS's god visions she has to hear more about Noah's giant boat. Two completely fake stories. Either way she's dedicating herself to something that can't provide the end return they promise.

Plus she'll probably go on south American mission trips trying to convince all the locals to say the sinner's prayer and declare them saved. As if that means anything at all.

There are more fanatic Christians than TBMs. Both groups want laws passed so I have to follow their rules.

The most numerous (the fanatic Christians) have done the most damage and irrevocably changed our political system. I fear them far more than TBMs.

And not every person that believes in Christ and God are nuts. Man, where do you people come from? Did the mormon church hurt EVERY ONE on this board to the point of atheism?

I mean this is new ground for me, so enlighten me.

Noah and the arc? Adam and eve first two people on earth?


Bible stories are just as (if not more) far fetched than Morg stories.

Am I wrong?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 05:10PM by mondaymorning.