To turn them into god fearing devout mormons? To make them into exmos?
No.
I'd say good parenting involves providing a nurturing environment for children to find out who they are, feel cared for and validated, and learn to function as productive contributors in society.
Yesterday, we learned about Anagrammy's poor little five year old grandson who has never learned normal coping skills beyond sucking on a breast and watching TV. His parents have done everything immaginable to keep him constantly happy and appeased and the poor guy is miserable and unready to deal with life as a normal five year old.
On the other hand, mormons often see children as posessions made of soft clay to be molded into the mormon ideal image and paraded in society as good examples of their mormon parenting. These poor kids might or might not be inclined in that direction. Those who aren't are often considered family black sheep, sometimes as early as primary grades or other times in adulthood when they show up at RfM.
Very authoritarian type parents see their role as dictatorial forcing kids to abide by rules and arbitrary unrealistic expectations which bring harsh consequences, sometimes including beatings and severe deprivations.
I think it might be a good idea to think about this topic before having children.
I'd say the first goal of parenting is to protect children from danger. That includes not letting them join cults. If a non-participating parent realizesa minor child is interested in joining such a group, they need to step in and say no. I can't blame believing TBMs for having kids blessed and baptized, but the nonmos and exmos who allow this baffle me.
It's also hard for me to understand why an nonbelieving parent would totally give the children over to a TBM parent for indoctrination. Certainly, I don't expect them to insist the TBM relinquish their church influence but wouldn't 50/50 be reasonable?
Let's say one spouse turns into an exmo and is sorry they ever contributed to mormon indoctrination of the kids. This is a time for renegotiation. Change happens in marriage. None of us look, feel, think, or believe the same way throughout a lifelong relationship. Without flexibility and renegotiation marriages would never last.
I'd like to encourage parents to think about these ideas and let me know how it's going for you.
Were you able to prevent relatives from forcing you to bless your baby in their mormon church?
Did you talk to your child as he/she approached age eight and come up with better birthday plans than font dunking?
Were you able to keep a marriage together after leaving the mormon church?
Were you able to help your children trasition from mormon thinking to actual problem solving and original thought?
Things I learned from parenting that were successful were: 1. freedom within limits - yes you may watch tv but only for an hour - yes you may go with your friends but you need to have chores and homework fnished. almost everyone knows this one, hearing yes more frequently than no, I believe, lets them know that they play a part and have some control over their lives.
2. helping a child with everything and giving them everything criples them emotionally and can keep them from having the confidence to believe they are capable of doing things themselves. I found with my youngest that I was constantly doing everything she demanded from me to the point that I was still tieing her shoes when she was six. It was just easier to do it than to wait for her to get it done. When I realized that she was falling behind the curve for tasks she should know I started trying to teach her to do it for herself. The two words that I heard over and over from her were 'I can't'. Instead of 'serving' her I had cripled her ability to believe she was a person capable of succeeding at difficult tasks. I honestly think she still suffers from this as an adult.
3. Not providing boundaries doesn't make a child happy it makes a child feel unsafe. It also creates a false belief that rules don't apply to them. There can really only be two outcomes to this one prison or a super painful lesson in reality when they realize the rest of the world doesn't share in their paradigm.
As far as the church is concerned my children were raised in a mixed parent family. They are all in the church to different degrees, all active. I will say this though, they respect my atheist beliefs and don't try to convert me, they respect my right to drink coffee and wine when I want to. They don't keep me away from my grandchildren whom I adore. I've let them know I can't go to church with them anymore nor can I listen to their scripture readings and they really don't want me there because the scriptures have a tendency to make me laugh bcs they're just so absurd.
There are times when I wish I could sit on the porch and have a beer and just talk to them but we're good friends and they've had a non-mormon in the family since they were babies so they aren't like the hard-core mormon families that shun their non-member family members. I guess I'm lucky there and I love them very much regardless of their religion.
My kids' friends often tell me they wish their parents were more like me: people whom they could talk with, honestly and openly, about what is going on in their lives. From what I've seen, many of the TBM parents are living in a bubble and have no clue what's going on with their teens because they freak out when the kids attempt to be honest and open -- then they come down with harsh rules and punishments to control their kids.
I think when children are young, parents do lots of teaching, modeling, and working with the kids. When they get older, maybe it transitions to include more coaching and mentoring, including letting the kids make some of their own decisions and experience the consequences while the stakes are still comparatively low.
No matter what age, though, the parents have to respect the child as a person -- not a lump of clay to be molded. This doesn't mean a lack of rules or boundaries, but an intentional teaching environment with plenty of nurturing, communication, and increasing ability to make their own choices as they mature enough to handle those choices. It's a process.
My goal was to raise people who could function successfully on their own in real life, achieve their own goals, and help others.
There's lots of blather in the church about "free agency," but from what I've seen, TBM parents are very controlling. Many of the women also want to perma-freeze their kids in the 0-5 age range so they never grow up and become difficult to handle.
When my DH was a boy he realized one day that his mother would beat him with a razor strop no matter what because she thought god was directing her. Being good didn't matter. Being obiedent only postponed the inevitable. It's a good thing I didn't know how bad that woman was when she was alive or there would have been an unbelievable family explosion.
Oh, and I almost forgot. That he realized that Joseph Smith was a complete fraud, and to never be trusting of those who claim to know the will of imaginary beings that no one can see.
My dad (not the world's greatest parent but infinitely better than his parents, and he never quit trying) compared parenting to a tool box. First, you give the child a safe, strong box to keep their tools in. In other words, a safe home, protection from danger both physical and mental, where the child can feel secure. Then, the parent fills the tool box with all the tools a kid needs to go out and build a life for themselves - one tool at a time, depending on what the kid needs, how old the kid is, what they are planning to build. I like this picture because the parenting role is to give the kids the training to be decent, compassionate, productive human beings and do so in a safe, loving environment. I'd also add that at a certain point, if you hope your kid build a mansion with their life but the choose to build a log cabin and are happy in that log cabin - if they possess all the qualities of good people but have chosen a different path than you - then it's the parents job to shut up and be proud of the kid for being themselves. The grown-up child doesn't owe it to the parent to build what the parent thinks they should build. I'd hate it if my kids grew up to fill a role just to please me, that wasn't really them or that didn't make them happy, because they wanted me to be proud. I want them to be true to themselves as much as I want anything for them.
Here's what I think, and it's important to me because I'm a single parent with primary custody of my 10 yo daughter.
My role is to:
1. Provide a safe, healthy environment. 2. Provide good education opportunity. 3. Encourage her to try new things, explore, be adventurous, creative, and have an open mind. 4. Teach her to treat everyone the same, which is the way she wants to be treated, i.e. with respect. 5. Warn her about threats to her physically and emotionally...and how to cope with them.
Probably a couple more but those are the main ones that come up continually.
When talking of raising children without religion many bring up the issue of "well if we have no authority from outside, how will we ever teach them good morals??"
Frankly I have thought about that too and probably my own indoctrination kicked in, making me feel like there would be a gap there.. But it's a falsehood. Children gain 95% of their morality from two sources. One is instinct more or less.. "We are born with the light of Christ in us" is the religious view. Actually the truth is that we are born with pre-wired brains which give most of us a drive toward empathy, compassion and love, especially for family, then "tribe."
The other thing is parental example. Children are also pre-wired to accept everything their parents tell them and show them by example. The proof of that is how easy it is to fill their minds with religious garbage. Just substitute a strong ethic of right and wrong, i.e. the Golden Rule. That's every bit as effective as religion, IMHO. Today we need to work hard on the concept that all humanity is now our tribe.
That's why I disagree with those who say "Don't tell children they can't be baptized into mormonism." Or "Don't try to talk to children about not joining a cult." Why? Because it will force them to rebel and do it to spite the parent.
Actually, parents OWE it to their children to share their imperfect wisdom. Not all children are totally contrary and if they seem that way I think they're still taking in and learning from their parent's examples.
The purpose of parenting? Its to bask in their reflected glory, once they have accomplished all the things I failed to!
haha, just kidding. I don't think many people think about the problem much before having kids though, thats for sure. The problem is compounded by the fact that there isn't a non-selfish reason to have children to begin with.
The most important thing for me, as a parent, is to keep my child safe.
Secondly, consistently enforcing the rules that are important, and explaining to her why she has to follow those rules - to keep her safe, not hurt others, not break things, etc.
Third, giving her as much freedom as possible and letting her make her own choices.
Fourth, teaching her to learn, answering her questions as honestly as possible in a way she can understand, exploring together whatever she's interested in.
Finally, supporting her and giving encouragement for the great things she does, being excited at her accomplishments, telling her how brave she is, or how good she is at sharing, how much I like her being a good helper.
Actually, I just realized that most of those things come naturally from loving your kid.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2012 12:05PM by sexismyreligion.
"Yesterday, we learned about Anagrammy's poor little five year old grandson who has never learned normal coping skills beyond sucking on a breast and watching TV." This made me laugh, 'cause I thought, yeah most men would be HAPPY to have that be their whole life :) Thank you for this post, I have been feeling lots of guilt with leaving the church and wondering how my kids will turn out. It's nice to know that I really just need to keep teaching them what I always have, to be good, service oriented, kind, respectful, happy kids, who will be able to make their own decisions in life!
I agree with much of what you said. Any nevermo who allows their underage kid to gt baptised is just ignorant in my opinion. And there is no excuse for their uncaring attitude. But as a nevermo with an adult kid who began to get lovebombed, it ws entirely different. It matters not what we parents say....they are surrounded by people telling them something they have is better. I tried so hard to tell my daughter to read and research. She would not....we had a couple yelling matches and then I said "Enough!" My thought was I was a great mom who did raise her to be the "thinking type". If she chose not to during this time of being "indoctrinated" there was nothing I could do.
Time after time I asked her to say to herself....could they have an agenda by the way they act and how they put down what you already loved as your religion??? What is it they really want? Do they want you to know all the facts or just the parts they think are so great and all the promises that are just that- promises - like a forever family. Now by this time she was 20. It got very serious with these Mormons hanging around, meeting her after her work let out and I didn't know, taking her places and having her lie to me, and even when an adult man came up to us in a restaurant wondering why she was not at FHE. I was livid. How dare he?
The entire yr. and 8 months before she married the Mormon -who also was part of this picture- was hell for me. Hell for her sister too. I don't wish it on anyone. It is truly like you are losing at least half of your child. She will never be the same and you know it. WE do have a good relationship but I am sad beyond belief she has not figured it out yet....soon it will be 5 yrs. she has been in.I won't be happy til she is out. But I am able to control myself and not talk about it.
You have asked some good questions. I am especially interested in the Mormon/exmormon family. I can not imagine allowing my child to be baptised if my hubby was still a Mormon.
It's to give children a safe and healthy environment to grow into their potential. Since we parents can't know their potential before they've grown we need to provide them plenty of nourshiment, both through healthy food and habits and through mental stimulation. Children also need to be taught healthy coping mechanisms for trials, tribulations and challenges (which has been a challenge for me because I lack some of those skills myself).
In short, we protect and guide them while allowing them enough freedom to discover their own strengths, weaknesses and passions. And we teach them how to utilize their strengths, cope with or overcome weaknesses and safely explore (and if they're lucky, profit from) their passions. :)
I give the children a great deal of credit! Maybe I was just lucky to have great kids, but I believe that children NATURALLY are loving towards others, they want to love and be loved, they want to please others, they accept other races, they have sympathy, they enjoy learning, they want to be happy, they want to be accepted in society, they enjoy each little success, they want to grow, they seek independence, they crave responsibility and control over their own life. My ex-husband and I couldn't have stopped my children from becoming who they are, even with all the mistakes we made. Kids are resilient!
I think that the Mormon leaders must know all of this, and that is why they start brainwashing the children so early. I had to pay tithing on money I got for my birthday, and my babysitting money. My kids sang, "I hope they call me on a mission" when they were three years old. Little kids get up in testimony meeting and repeat, "I know the church is twoo." Brainwash them early, before they turn into natural, loving, human beings.
I read about 30 books about parenting, and I agree with what everyone writes here. Without being aware that I was dong so, I raised my children to be not-Mormon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2012 04:22AM by forestpal.