My fiance and mormon roomate set me up to meet with the missionaries. I read the BoM. I went to the library and read some mormon history, including some long stretches of reading Journal of Discourses.

But my "investigation" was over before it started. I heard about the golden plates and it was over. And that was years before I even arrived in Utah.

My "investigation" was really an effort to figure out how I was going to get my fiance out of the cult.

In short, my "investigation" lasted thirty seconds. Buried Golden Plates - much laughter and no thanks.

So, can an analytical, logical person who is not mormon really "investigate" TSCC?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 10:33PM by thingsithink.

I don't think so, but I can't say for sure. I was raised in the church-cult. However, once at BYU is was the beginning of the end for me as I pursued analytical thinking. I was told I was "intellectualizing" myself out of the church." Ha! And they have the nerve to say "the glory of God is intelligence."

I was hopped up on goofballs (post-surgery, mmkay?), when _The Mormons_ was first broadcasted on PBS.

Terrel (sp? pfft) Givens was talking about becoming a god, and I was like, "Hmmmm...that sounds appealing."

I went to the Official COJCOLDS site, and there was no there there. Then I went to the PBS page and saw a link to this board.

The first thing I read was Richard Packham's "Thinking About Joining Mormonism?" and I was like, wait. What? Oh, HELL no!

Then I lurked for awhile, because my upbringing was in a VERY strict fundamentalist church -- I spent about as much time in church as most Mormons. I was brainwashed. I was still dealing with issues brought about by internalized feelings of worthlessness (I still struggle with that), and I was like, "Imma post."

I started off as "Almost an Investigator," and that was shortened to "Almost," and finally I started using my first name.

So, I might have called the missionaries if I hadn't made it here. Cheryl was the first person to respond to my first post (boy was I scared).

I've said this in the past, and it probably bears repeating: The details of our experience might differ, but many of the effects are the same.

Thank you for this board, and thank you for allowing me to be a part of it. I used to feel like an interloper. Not anymore.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 10:46PM by Beth.

That is interesting as I had always thought you were xlds. Your post makes a good point in that one doesn't have to be a mormon to be victimized by religion.

Beth, thank for your post and your support as well to all of us ex -Morons!

I think she did at one time but unfortunately it was before I had a chance to meet her.

Always fun to see her at RfM.

Usually the "investigator" is really investigating a fit for his emotions and often vulnerable situation.

Even an otherwise analytical person may set his brain aside and act on his heart. If social needs or emotions are driving the conversion, all the facts in the world will be powerless.

A quote I like from Shermer about this: “Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.”

They just build a wall around their religion and not allow analytical and logical reasoning inside those walls. At some point, though, I like to think the wall breaks down. It did for me.

I was thinking about my mother, a wonderful person who did join the church. She was raised by atheist parents who were medical doctors. She was a Dutch nurse in South Africa, far from home. My Dad was an atheist as well. When the Mormon missionaries came knocking on the door, she felt she needed something spiritual in her life, so she joined. I think the watered down version of the church in the boondocks of South Africa was an appealing 'American religion' to her. My parents had no other family in South Africa and my Dad was half American with a ton of family in the California. She liked my Dad's American family -- so anybody with an American accent would have appealed to her. She was really a good, creative, and clever person, and I think being a Mormon was an almost Bohemian thing for her to become.

However, if she ever had found out what Mormons REALLY believed, I think she would have left the church before she died. I think that is what the missionaries prey on, people in need of support in a vulnerable moment in their lives.

Before the interwebs no one had the means to investigate the truth.

ozpoof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before the interwebs no one had the means to
> investigate the truth.

it was difficult... especially since you were comparing real life people with """"testimonies"""" against books or second or third-hand accounts.

but it was not impossible
certainly, i have learned a lot more about the faults and evils of mormonism since the t'interwebs, but - even so - I still found out enough to leave the cult, before

I went to some pretty good parochial schools as a kid -- they were so good that they made me a skeptic.
If the church that taught you turns you into a skeptic of them, nobody else really stands a chance.

Poor missionaries, JWs, etc. -- I had to take an entire year of "a critical analysis of RC doctrine, humanist philosophy, and world religious thought through history" -- (all served up by a very sharp, well studied, and completely terrifying fire breather of a priest who hated lazy arguments and loved a very acerbic socratic method of instruction)
They didn't stand a chance.

Dear "Sister A" and "Sister B":

Thanks for at least trying to answer some of my questions. I am a bit disappointed that you weren't able to answer all of them. My mistake was is thinking that the LDS / Mormon church was just another church --- it isn't. Mormonism is a complete way of life--much more akin to Islam (not in theology, but in scope) than a standard basic Christian denomination ( like baptists, methodists, etc) . Try to look at this from my point of view. You move to a new place, don't know anyone, and a friend suggests going to church to meet new people. You have heard of the Mormon church but you don't really know much about it in detail, so you decide to look it up. What you find is a lot of very strange things, so you go straight to the horse's mouth to find out what the straight story is. That's how I wound up contacting you.

I think you are going to have a difficult time trying to get people to join your church. It didn't take me but two or three weeks to find out about the history of Mormonism, how the LDS church got started, inconsistencies between the LDS official story of Joseph Smith's life and the actual historical evidence, different theology, legacy of racism, peculiar practices and so on. When I tried to ask you about these things, you seemed shocked that I would ask about them or didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Here's a sample:

** Misspellings, bad grammar and plagiarism (i.e. copied from the Bible) in the Book of Mormon

** Smith's neighbours in New York gave evidence that he was con artist, grifter, and he was actually prosecuted for fraud and disorderly conduct

** The few people who actually dared to look in the box that supposedly contained the ancient gold plates reported seeing nothing but bricks or sand

** A close friend of Joseph Smith named Peter Ingersoll said that Smith told him that he found some white sand in a creek bed after a rainstorm while walking home and wrapped in up in his work shirt. When his family asked him to see it, he jokingly told him in a grave manner that it was the "ancient gold bible from Canada" and all who tried to see it would fall dead

** Smith "translated" the plates by remote viewing -- he put his head in a hat with magic seer stones (commonly used for divination like birch rods) and dictated the text

** Smith used polygamy as a ruse to satisfy his sexual desires and was almost castrated by a lynch mob

** Mormons are not Christians (as they claim to be) nor are they monotheistic. The Mormon pantheon acknowledges many past, present, and future Gods, and one of the basic tenets of the faith says that humans can become gods themselves ("As Man is, God once was. As God is, Man may become..." )

** Mormon temple rituals, robes, and undergarments are no longer secret and details are easily obtainable online.

** According to Mormon theology, when humans were spirits in heaven they fought over whether or not human beings would have free will. One third were in favor, one third were against, and one third were neutral. Those that were in favor became humans on Earth, those against became demons, and the neutral or less valiant third were allowed to become humans but were "cursed" with dark skin.

I have no axe to grind here and I have nothing against Mormons. I was just trying to find out what the truth was. I've been to Nauvoo, IL and I know that Mormons were horribly persecuted for their religion and faced extermination and ethnic cleansing. No one will ever really know Smith really saw or what what actually was (if anything) revealed to him. Was he a flawed conflicted man who was actually chosen by God or did he make the whole thing up? Why the ruse of the gold plates? Did he feel that no one would believe him if he had nothing tangible?

You asked me to pray about the veracity of the Book of Mormon. After speaking with you the other night I was flipping channels for something to watch while eating dinner. A western movie was on Showtime about settlers crossing Utah on their way to California so I decided to watch it. This movie was about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857--a wagon train was attacked by Mormons and the survivors were shot in the back of the head execution style. Only those eight years old or younger were allowed to live (and of course were to be raised as Mormons). I took this "revelation" as my answer. I probably think too much and ask too many questions to join your church.

I was totally lost, knew I didn't fit in, and was looking for someplace where I could fit in. I should have been prime meat for TSCC. I wanted to believe, but my parents had raised me with strong critical thinking and reasoning skills. So, despite wanting to fit in, I just could not believe. If I couldn't believe, I couldn't be baptized. So after 3 years of investigating, trying to believe by never believing, I left.

A few years I figure out I was gay and knew why I felt so different.