I just had three elders come by to visit the wife. This is how the conversation went. It was very enlightening.

(knock knock)
Me: Well hey..guys my lucky day..three of you. How are ya doing (shaking their hands)
Elder A: Hello, is this the Johnson residence?
Me: Why yes it is...(still smiling)
Elder B: Yeah hi, we're in the area checking on the members, and anyway we wanted to see how you were.
Me: We're doing great..so nice of you to ask. It's the wife she a member, not me, but she's not home. But I'll let her know.

Elder B: Oh, well have you ever heard of the LDS church?
Me: Indeed, as I say, my wife is a member, and I a thing or two about the church

Elder C: Are you a Christian?
Me: Me?...no no. I'm an athiest.

Elder A: Well how long have you been an athiest? Have you ever had a spiritual experience?
Me: Well you know, these are kind of a personal questions, but I'll answer your question if you answer mine. No, I've never had a spiritual experience. I have been an athiest ever since I was 6 months old. I had a poopy diaper that hadn't been changed for awhile, and I thought, ya know, no God would ever allow this shittiness to happen to me..and I became an athiest..na na..just kidding guys, ever since I can remember. Mom and dad were athiest. It's what I know. Now my turn. Elder, how long have you been LDS, and how did you know it was the right - did you have evidence of some sort?

Elder A: Okay well, I was 6 months old..and I had a poopy diaper and so I prayed...lol..kidding. No was about 12 years old, and I saw my brother come home from a mission and I could see the spirit about him and the change that came over him, and I knew for myself that it was true.

Me: You mean you saw ghosts flying around him..kidding..so you felt something..that's your evidence? (he nodds) So there about a billion Muslims and a billion Catholics, and they have all felt feeling of affirmation, if you will, good feelings, about their church. So what is different about your church that make them wrong and you right?
Elder A: Aaah, well, I read the BOM and I know it's true.
Me: Okay, well cool. Um, is there any evidence of the BOM at all, elders. If so what?

Elder C: Oh yes, I'm not allowed to study that evidence while I'm on my mission, but I know there is evidence, cultural evidence, among the Indians that exists, down in South America.
Me: Really? Wow. Um. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't think there is, but. Well let me approach it a different way. The Roman empire lasted roughly the same time, scope, geograph area as the BOM people. There is evidence all over the European continent, yet, there is absolutely no evidence of the BOM, niether cultural, linguistic, archeological...whatsoever.

Elder A: No, that's not correct. Look we could debate this all day, but in the end, it is the spirit that manifests truth.

Me: Okay, easy there. Okay, okay..no no..I'm not trying to debate, but merely to understand. Well let me ask you this, a huge battle took place in the BOM on the hill Cumorah. Over 1 million people were killed in that battle. Is there any evidence whatsoever of that?

Elder: First of all, no there were not a million people, but 230,000, 23 groups of 10,000, so not a million. Yes, indeed, there is..massive weapon cache's have been found, along with bones and relics.

Me: Really? Okay, we're talking about New York. Right? (He shakes his head yes) C'mon now Elder. Don't say things that your not sure about...I mean no disrespect, but please please go google that when you get home. If you find evidence of the BOM whatsoever in New York, please come back and show me. Okay. Well gotta run the US is about to take Korea in VM.

Well there you have it. There is evidence of the BOM in New York.

>> I have been an athiest ever since I was 6 months old. I had a poopy diaper that hadn't been changed for awhile, and I thought, ya know, no God would ever allow this shittiness to happen to me..and I became an atheist.


Awesome!!!

Hahaha oh dear. I liked the way you handled yourself.

We ex-mos are 'more sure' that the hill in NYS was (NOT) the ancient cumorah mentioned in the BoM than the rank-and-file are, in spite of the FP letter they sent out a few yrs ago...

It seems... their 'faith' has been manipulated by tour guides & promoters in S & Central America.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 05:50PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Huge weapons caches, bones, and relics, huh? Are they housed at the visitors center? No? How about the Smithsonian? No? Well maybe at BYU somewhere? No? Maybe there are some pictures of all of this tangible evidence of the BoM on the internet. No?

What a bunch of lies.

the traditional BoM geography.
http://www.firmlds.org/index.php

He now claims they've found evidence of the Hebrew language in the Hopewell sites. That'll be a big surprise to most scholars.

Question:

"Hebrew" or (Reformed) Egyptian?

I don't get any relationship/correlation between Egyptian & Hebrew.

Question:

When (if only approximately) did the 'Hebrew' language come into use? what were any predecessors? surely the people were using some sort of language (Armaic?) in-around Jerusalem.

better ask Mittens, he's a specialist in these matters, AND he's in Israel now.

Here's what WIKI says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Creek_inscription



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 06:58PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Even most TBMs know that's not true.
The church depends on an astonishing degree of ignorance. The risk of apologetic fantasy like that it that it backfires. The church is wise to say ther is no evidence and there won't be any because it's a test of faith.

I never got the 'Reformed Egyptian' thingee...

Weren't the people (jews) of Jerusalem speaking Hebrew at the time Lehi left?

what about the people of the other migrations? what language(s) did they use to communicate?

If it's proposed that they 'changed' their language to RE, WHY did they do so? was there a problem with their prior language?

I just don't get it.

I always was amused that they used "reformed egyptian" to "save space"; now I'm no expert at ancient hebrew, but doesn't ancient hebrew not use vowels (you know, the famous NHM altar carving that apologists just looove?). There's a handy-dandy space saver right there.

Maybe reformed egyptian saved even MORE space by doing away with consonants, too, therefore requiring no writing at all!

Sure would be easier to read off of a rock in a hat that way, doncha think?

LOL... I think that's what 'it was translated by the spirit' means. No writing, no plates. Maybe JS had something else in the hat besides peep stones. Who knows what he was sniffing.