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Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 01:02AM

There's a short reference in a mystery by Greg Iles about "one of the most elite groups in the [FBI] known as the Mormon Mafia." I won't include parenthetical citation as it's not a history book, and the subject only comes up in a short paragraph. But can anyone give me background, or link to a reliable source, on how this little-known, but seemingly powerful group, came about? I was told that the FBI has included LDS members at least since the time of MLK Jr, and that they investigated him? Anybody? Thanks in advance.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 04:39AM

Your are not talking about the Danites I assume? They were like a militia but a long time ago.
Mittler is probably the had of the current Morg Mafia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 04:40AM by enoughenoch19.

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Posted by: Whiskey_Tango ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 04:45AM

In the past Mormons were heavily recruited by the FBI. They easily and quickly passed the extensive background check. Many had a degree for accounting which the FBI loves in an applicant(the first years of an FBI agents career is spent auditing financial records of white collar criminals), plus a foriegn language or experience in a foriegn country to boot. It would stand to reason many Mormon agents would become a power center. Hell, they do everywhere else why not there?

Not so much anymore. Most government agencies, including the FBI now accept that a little Marijuana experimentation in HS/college happens and is no longer an automatic disqualifier like it was twenty years ago, plus the fact that a new huge disqualifier is poor credit, which even Mormons suffer from, seems to have diluted the "Mormon Mafia" to some degree. The FBI also has a mandatory retirement age of 57 so that will drive alot of the older agents out pretty quick.

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Posted by: ambivalent exmo ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 01:28AM

My uncle went to the Taiwan, Taipei mission-
in the first batch of missionaries.

He was a math whiz already, and with his
recently acquired mandarin Chinese fluency,
he was a perfect match.

His job was to decode/translate radio chatter to triangulate
bomb targets during the Korean war.

Perfect recruits: returned mishies.
The gov knows they are fiercely patriotic,
hardworking, and best of all,
rm's have already demonstrated blind obedience to authority.
Match made in heaven.

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Posted by: partymxman ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 05:20AM

The nicey name is "the strengthening church members committee." But spies is more correct.

Many Mormon men have been hired by the FBI as Whiskey_Tango said.

Retired FBI agent James Wright wrote his autobiography "FBI: Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity." This looks like an informative read.

The National Security Agency (NSA) is building a 1.5 million square feet cyber storage facility in Utah costing 1.6 Billion Dollars.

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Posted by: Whiskey_Tango ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 10:21AM

The rumor that I hear with that(I work for DOD) is that there are not going to be a lot of employees actually working there. The ones that are going to work there will be brought in from Maryland. It is being built there because of the ability to suck up available electricity for their super-duper, double Top Secret computers, and the use of Camp Williams. Not really expected to employ many locals...

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 10:56AM

It's a slang term for the Mormons inside the FBI during the Hoover administration. Hoover like straight laced religious types in general, but he was particularly enjoyed employing Mormons, whom he liked because "they rarely lie, but they know how to bend the truth."

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Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 11:27PM

Thanks for the responses. That's pentultimate Hoover, forbiddencokedrinker, is it not?

Their recruitment makes sense, I suppose. I'm just having a hard time finding any substantive information on the subject, because what I'm reading about is very much present-day. And from what I've gleaned, "spies" appears quite the accurate description. Clean-cut--but entitled bullies--would also be a fair assessment; thus, the slang term "mafia."

I'll keep looking. But thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 11:28PM by ducky333.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 11:34PM

The stuff that I have seen it referred to is more like legend then scholarly research. That doesn't mean it isn't true, just that it is all second hand stuff, that no one ever bothered to write down.

BTW, the young J Edgar Hoover, despite his flaws, is a hero of mine. While he made some mistakes early in his career, up until the mid 1950s I believe he was mostly on the right side of history. When the FBI started snooping on the civil rights movement, and J. Edgar basically had to have his arm twisted to go after white supremacy groups in the south after that period, then I feel he fell into a dark period.

Also from what little I have read, I personally believe he was probably a closet homosexual, but I have serious doubts about him having ever dressed up in women's clothing in order to pick up men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 11:38PM by forbiddencokedrinker.

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 01:28AM

respect for j e hoover - you have to be kidding fcd.

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 01:30AM

Didn't h. hughes have a "mormon mafia" as his security detail.

I know nothing of current day mormon mafia except for scmc

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Posted by: SCMD ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 03:05AM

templeendumbed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't h. hughes have a "mormon mafia" as his
> security detail.
>
> I know nothing of current day mormon mafia except
> for scmc


I personally know three Mormons who worked in Hughes' security detail. I always assumed there were more.

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 03:12AM

My suggestion would be to let the stories begin.

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Posted by: Ragnar ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 04:30AM

J E Hoover became a non-elected, lifetime "shadow president" running the gov't/country as he saw fit. He was a tyrant, and insane. Read: J. Edgar Hoover: The Man and the Secrets by Curt Gentry.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 02:55PM

My father was a personal friend and long-time employee of Hoover. I agree, Hoover was insane. My father was also insane. Alcoholism, hate and vengeance was the lifestyle I witnessed among the agents.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: July 24, 2012 11:44PM

Of course, here is another theory I have about J Edgar, and many of the Mormon and other super religious FBI agents. It is not based on any evidence, just assumptions. Let us go with the assumption that J Edgar was secretly a gay man in a time when that was illegal. FBI agents have to be really good at living double lives. Gay men in J. Edgar's time had to live double lives all the time, so they were probably good at it. Gay men from super religious groups would have to be really good at living a double life. Maybe the inner circle of the FBI, the experience investigators who got the really tough cases were men J. Edgar believed were really good at living double lives, for the same reasons I just cited. It would have also given him something to hold over their heads, to keep them straight and narrow, and he wouldn't have to worry about the Mafia or KGB tempting them with female prostitutes.

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Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 01:09AM

To me, J Edgar is the quintessential enigma. I agree with you about him--up to a point. I admire him up to his time in the Justice Dept. I think then that his proclivities for spying (whether necessary or not at the time) changed him. Of course the Civil Rights Movement is what I think (like many others) drove him off the deep end--his vitriolic hatred of MLK, the Kennedys et al, his attempts to infiltrate the movement, destroy the black press, create a list of "subversives," colluding with Mafia figures, etc. Then his colluding with Nixon. Whew, he was a busy man.

Honestly, it's hard for me to get an accurate historical depiction of the man during that time. What I do see is a real change from the young JEH, who started out as a brilliant, compassionate, patriotic young man with quite the work ethic. Whether the change was gradual or abrupt as many debate, Idk. There are so many contradictions in his life. I also think it was telling that he once said (paraphrasing here) that the reat end and meaning of life is one man pitting his wits against another man. To me that's telling about his later character-and actions.

You may be spot on about the circle of gay men around him. It sounds logical. Idk. But then he waged war on gays in government, equating the life choice with Communism--yet another contradiction. I've always wondered why such emphasis was placed on whether or not he dressed in drag (I mean, who the hell cares), other than to embarrass the man who'd made so many enemies. I'm certainly no scholar on J Edgar, but I do think he began his career with the best of intentions. Whether the good outweighs the bad is for history to decide and much of it is still up in the air. I'm going to get Tim Weiner's latest book about him; it's supposedly quite the telling read.

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Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 03:23AM

I found this from, I believe, 2009. Again, who knows:

http://www.equip.org/articles/mormon-mafia-cited-in-fbi-discrimination-case/

From sources I can't corroborate, I read that the MM was the only group H Hughes trusted to care for him at the end of his life. After his death, this particular group of the MM, led by William Gay, was sued in connection with his death re poisoning him. Furthermore, there is something on youtube about Hughes and the so-called MM. Didn't watch it. I'm sure somebody knows more than the little I can find that's unsubstantiated.

Real or myth? Idk. The author of the book I read could've been taking some degree of literary license.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2012 03:26AM by ducky333.

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 03:45PM

That is a great link! Thanks

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Posted by: gnosticguru ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 10:19AM

Just start with a search for "Mormon Mafia" + "Howard Hughes". When I was investigating Mormonism before my exit, I came across some very interesting information concerning this subject. Here are a few facts:
1. Hughes surrounded himself primarily with Mormons because he trusted them. His doctors were Mormon. His security was provided Mormons. Head of the Mormon mafia was Frank William Cay, whose son Robert started Bain Capital.
2. After Hughes death, a handwritten will mysteriously showed up at Church HQ, leaving 1/16 of Hughes' estate to the church--it was ruled to be a fraud. Though the church did not receive any money from Hughes' estate, there is evidence that Cay controlled interests in some of Hughes' companies, including Nevada casinos. (within a few years of this, the Church started prospering and doing a lot of construction; remember the old days, when members had to pay extra to the ward budget to raise building funds for new chapels? And we had to at least help build them ourselves? Then word came from SLC that they would pay for and build new chapels without extorting $ and labor from the ward members. They would even pay to clean them and hired janitors and gardeners! And the temples started multiplying like rabbits. Hmmmm)

3. This is interesting--this site also has some dark info on Romney. Wicked stuff. Not for skeptics!
http://mittromney2012potus.blogspot.com/2012/03/who-is-robert-gay-and-why-romney.html?m=1

You can do the rest and come to your own conclusions.

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Posted by: debbie skousen ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 06:31PM

They do not need to come to their own conclusions on this site - some expressed them well a few years ago.

For others, who have commented on my blog and are well-heeled themselves, one such posted the following on my blog.

"AnonymousJuly 20, 2012 1:58 PM
I have no doubt that your crack investigative efforts will single handedly topple the Romney house of cards. Thanks for saving us from the Mormons. They are a treacherous bunch. And with a name like Skousen,we would have to assume some hidden Mormon baggage is driving you."

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 06:53PM

Uh.......

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Posted by: Debbie Skousen ( )
Date: July 26, 2012 07:50PM

As the poster said "They are a treacherous bunch", and could not have said it better.

There is no need for anyone on this board to attempt to reach their own conclusions, or attempt to go down the 'rabbit hole'.
Opinions expressed the board years ago by some, were handed over for review. For them, they showed themselves for what they are, and no one was impressed.

A treacherous bunch indeed.

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Posted by: debbie skousen ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 06:10PM

Thanks for giving the link to my website "the Real Mitt Romney The Weather-Vane Candidate" Some notable people have come into my blog and posted comments - which was kind of them.

I am currently working on a book - I have been for awhile. The Mormon Community is an odd community, inside and outside the Mormon Church. My grandmother and dad was right on it that is for sure.

The book is a tell all about my journey within Mormon - with people both in an out of the church - Mormonism is quite an exclusive club and a painful one.

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Posted by: ducky333 ( )
Date: July 25, 2012 06:20PM

gnosticguru,

Just call me Alice. Oh thanks, btw, I read that name as William Gay. I blame the fireworks that drained my brain last night.

But even those very few close to Hughes later in life said that they couldn't confirm persistent rumors about MM, including their being the ones who actually kept him doped up, poisoned him, taking over his finances (though there was a lawsuit), etc. What is your source? I've looked at many sources, but nobody seems to be able to confirm anything. There are also books out there that claim to be definitive bios. Do you know of a good one?

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Posted by: debbie sk ( )
Date: August 09, 2012 02:46AM

Don't worry ex-mormon, I am only telling the truth when asked about your group. I have the e-mails and the thread. I think you might come up about ch. 17 or so. You sure are visiting my site a lot.

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Posted by: Demon of Kolob ( )
Date: August 09, 2012 01:07PM

I read about this in the book "The darker side of virute" by Anson Shupe

http://www.amazon.com/The-Darker-Side-Virtue-Corruption/dp/0879756543



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 01:07PM by Demon of Kolob.

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