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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 05:18PM

Yeah, I said it.

Let me explain myself.

Mormonism has such strict, puritanical rules regarding human sexual conduct, it can't help but fuck with the minds of members. LGBT people who grow up mormon are demonized entirely, mormon women are treated like a sexual commodity that is at once both valuable if "unspoiled" and too dangerous to make their own decisions (but are blamed by some church members for their own rapes, as described by another poster. The church is so obsessed with sex, that it can't even see rape as the violent act it is, and regards it in the same light as consensual sex. How backward is that?). Even hetero mormon men are mindfucked by the masturbation issue and worthiness interviews. Upon leaving mormonism, it is almost inevitable that the former mormon will have some healing to do in regard to his/her sexuality.

A big part of that healing involves discussion of sex, and talking about previously taboo sexual issues in a way that smashes taboos. In particular, if a gay or lesbian exmo needs to do some intense healing - as they have most certainly been made to feel worthless simply for being who they are - then part of their sexual and self-esteem therapy may necessarily be to be "out, loud and proud".

Simply put, if GayLayAle starts sex threads, it is far less about preoccupation than it is about healing, and about feeling normal and part of the human community by discussing something that is a part of his identity.

When I was mormon, I didn't regard gays and lesbians as wicked people, as many mormons seem to. But I would frequently say, "You don't see happy gays or lesbians, do you? It's because they oppose God's Law." First, I didn't really know many LGBT people, so I had no right to make that pronouncement. Second, it never occurred to me until I left mormonism, that it might have been attitudes like mine that contributed to any perceived unhappiness in gays or lesbians I DID encounter. Finally, I realized that LGBT people are no more or less happy than anyone else. But I also decided I could be a helluva lot more understanding by simply being okay with who LGBT folks are, and being okay with their stating who they are.

And in regard to women, well, they've received multiple mind-fuckings and levels of cultural repression of their sexuality, just by having the misfortune of being born into western judaeo-islamo-christian society. Somehow, with millenia of cultural overlay, we've managed to convince many women that they don't *really* have their own sexual urges, but should submit to the urges of their husband, after they find the right man. Going back again to the other poster describing a bishop who blamed her for her own rape, I think this reveals an extremely patriarchal attitude that regards women as property, and mere appendages of either their fathers or their husbands. And ultimately, such an attitude is based upon patriarchal need to ensure rights of property, inheritance and lineage. One needs only to see that the ancient Hebrews not only stoned adultresses to death, but rape victims, too, to see my point. Even though modern DNA testing has obviated much of that patriarchal desperation, the attitudes unfortunately remain.

But the truth is, women have a very deep, powerful sexuality, once they shed their social conditioning/brainwashing.

(Check out books like Sperm Wars for futher info on the following) There was one study I remember reading about that studied the physical, sexual response to various visual stimuli in both genders and in straight and gay orientations (can't recall details about the study and am too lazy to Google at the moment; it should be easy enough to find). The findings were very telling. Gay males, hetero males and lesbians all had the responses you might predict. They all responded to the "appropriate" visual stimuli (gay males liked gay porn, hetero males liked straight porn, etc.) as measured by genital blood flow, didn't respond to the visual stimuli that you would not expect them to respond to, and they largely reported the same levels of stimulation as the blood flow indicated.

However....


When studying the hetero women, something VERY interesting was discovered. The hetero women *reported* only being stimulated by straight porn (and leaned toward the "softer" variety), but their genital blood flow indicated sexual stimulation by ALL forms of visual stimuli, whether it be straight porn, gay porn, bestiality, soft core bathing suit shots of either sex, etc. What this might indicate is that the story about men being naturally promiscuous, but women being naturally picky is largely fiction.

Women who leave mormonmism are likely to get more in touch with their own sexual nature, and may in fact leave a lot of mainstream cultural sexual norms behind.

That might also warrant discussion on this board.

The bottom line is, if you don't like it, don't click on the thread, and don't whinge like an idiot about it, either. It's not rocket surgery, people!

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Posted by: David Stimpson ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 06:44PM

Well put.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 07:41PM

I have to laugh at the perception that women are the picky ones. Great post!

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 07:58PM


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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 08:13PM

Pretty interesting stuff. The guest a therapist a did a study for her PHd about female sexuality in Mormonism. The therapist herself is LDS although of the more liberal variety.

Her findings were no big surprise. LDS patriarchy and rules about sex have lasting and often harmful effects on the sex lives of LDS women.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=1384

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 09:04PM

Not like I haven't told my own story before, but I was just discussing this with my son today. I lived in absolute fear of ever having to discuss sexual issues with a bishop, so I was as strait laced as they come. Then the bishop decided to use me to experiment to see if we could at least get my gay boyfriend turned on.

So at age 25, after keeping everything locked up really tightly (mentally and emotionally, too), he used my "true mormon virgin" (as I stated on gaylayale's post) to try to change a gay to straight, essentially telling me that my "saving myself" meant actually NOTHING unless it was to save a man. It was okay to sacrifice my "chastity"--never mind what it did as far as a mindfuck.

I somehow turned out okay . . . I often think it was my marriage that saved me sexually as odd as that sounds.

Their SSA label they give to gays shows how focused they are on all things sexual.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 09:06PM by cl2.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 11:16PM


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Posted by: angsty ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 09:42PM

It has been five or more years and I'm still in the process of realizing the degree to which my Mormon upbringing has damaged my ability to appreciate my sexuality. I got no problem with the sex talk. It's a normal part of life.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 09:57PM

The old adage around meetings is if you're looking for a relationship on the AA campus, the odds are good, but the goods are odd...

Same with ex-Mormons (at my age, it's gonna take a real parlay to get me back into the game; I kind of gave up being a sex symbol when I became a cabbie).

Try to be nice and understanding to each other (advice I probably need to follow myself).

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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: December 16, 2010 10:31PM

Most people in the "real world" have it all figured out. Then there are we odd duck exmo's who not only missed out on certain sexual milestones but were made to feel guilty if we even so much as thought about it. I will always remember hearing a recording of some famous LDS speaker saying (to a young adult audience): "If you have sex before marriage, you're gonna feel guilty and you're gonna feel dirty." It's rediculous to think we can heal and recover from mormonism without talking about sex.

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Posted by: Tippy the Topper ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 10:50AM


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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 11:27AM

We just had a trollish individual harassing one of our regular posters saying that posting about sex showed "preoccupation" and/or "obsession". This is my reply to him, and to explain my view of the value of sex talk on RfM.

It's okay here, if (as Susan I/S once told me) "it doesn't come off like a Penthouse Letter".

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 12:00PM


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Posted by: GayLayAle ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 12:04PM

Oh hell, there I go again.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 12:16PM


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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 12:18PM

remember that the study also included data on lesbian women, and that they responded much the same ways as straight and gay men did. So I don't think the measurement methodology is an issue here.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 01:58PM

Perhaps you are more bi than lesbian. Something to think about.

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 04:35PM

I'm a lesbian in a man's body. Does that count?

Ron

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: December 18, 2010 02:15AM

I have a deeply personal question and absolutely no one to ask. Would you mind emailing me at anagrammy@gmail.com?

I would so appreciate it!

Thanks, Halegal

Anagrammy

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 02:35PM

I think female sexuality is simply much more fluid than male sexuality in general. I think I slide around on the Kinsey scale depending on what I had for dessert, what movie I'm watching, where I am in my cycle, who I'm with and whether or not this is during a month that ends in Y or not.

:>D

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Posted by: DNA ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 04:33PM

There is a continuum with as heterosexual as can be on one end, and as gay as can be on the other end. And there is 1,000 different points in between. People can fall anywhere on the scale.

I often have wondered what cultural norms play in it seeming like women are more open to same sex experiences etc. In our culture, guys who are feminine are ostracized a lot more than masculine women are. On the range from masculine to feminine, women are free to roam over a wide range. Guys have a lot narrower range where it's not penalized.

Who knows how it would all shake out if there wasn't the social norms and penalties.

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: December 17, 2010 02:45PM

As GrandPappyRon used to say:

"There may be snow on the mountain, but there's still a fire in the furnace!"

Ron

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