I mean, I know it's the church and the culture. But is it really so important to replenish the earth at such young age and so fast? For example, we have one friend who went on a mission came back dated a girl for two weeks and was married to her two months later...WTF! There is no way you can know someone well enough, after such little time, to get married.

When my husband and I got married, granted we were young, but we dated for three and half years off and on. Then we were engaged for almost a full year. We both had been through a lot and had to grow up quick. Our maturity was more than our physical age.

My friend on Facebook mentioned that he is going to be moving to Orem in a month. I jokingly said, "eeww Orem.." There was a conversation that ensued that got me thinking. I feel the need to add that this friend likes to joke around about everything, you will hardly catch him being serious. But after knowing him as long as I have, I know his joking is always hiding truths. Here it is...

Friend: Orem isn't that bad. I just don't want to be in the heat, and my best friend is going to school up there. Oh, and I hear girls are really anxious to get married in the Provo area. So I am gonna check that out. Haha

Me: Friend, you really shouldn't be in a hurry to get married. I know that's kind of the culture thing in Utah, date for two months get married in one. But in all honesty, you should take time being with yourself and getting to know yourself better. Travel, do something. The Utah rush to get married usually ends in divorce or unhappiness.

Friend: 2 months? Man I plan on dating for 2 weeks. I am buying a ring when I get up there. Heck with a month engagement. Make it a 2 week engagement so she has something to do. Then flocks of babies before she is old and barren. I must multiply and replenish the earth. This is what I was made for. Well that and to start a revolution with my electric dance moves.
<there is much veiled in this small statement. He has told me before how lonely he is and how he just wants to be married. He is a bigger guy and since people are shallow, he hasn't had a lot of dates where we live.>

Me: I know you are half joking, but Friend it really is terrible to get married to someone you hardly know. I hate how this culture pushes people to get married fast and young. People change a lot as they get older and sometimes become different people. It takes at least a year(I would say longer) to get to know someone.

So that is my Facebook convo that reminded me of the Utah Mormon push to get married. So many young adults feel the push to get married and feel like something is wrong with them if they don't. Truly, it makes me sick. I feel for friends struggling through horrible marriages or friends that are already divorced at 23. I feel for the ones(like my friend above) who feel that they are broken because they are not married yet.

I have nothing else to say, this topic always upsets me. My rant is over.

I think there is also a sense of "something is wrong with you" if you "can't" find someone to marry fairly quickly. I know I felt that way and I think I picked it up from the indoctrination and the culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 01:07PM by bc.

Yup covered that in my paragraphs...

Fine I'll try to say something that actually adds.

I think a lot of it is the Mormon doctrine/culture is that compatibility, maturity, and experience aren't important for the success of the marriage.

When I married at age 22 I pretty much figured that being "in love" and "righteous" were about the only requirements for a successful marriage - never mind that neither of our parents had successful marriages.

There is just very little real teaching in the Mormon world of what it really takes to have a successful marriage. You hear a lot of platitudes like "never go to bed angry", "if you make God your first focus everything else will work out", etc.

Also FYI: At the end of our mission my mission president would have a final interview with us where the main topic was - hurry up and get married. I believe this is typical of most missions.
As it turns out "being in love" isn't that rare and isn't that good of an indicator that your marriage will work.

Plus the entire focus on the YM/YW programs are go on a mission and get married in the temple. It really is presented as once you do that you have "arrived". Then the rest of your life is just this trivial "endure to the end" thing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 01:27PM by bc.

Yep, the ONLY thing you need to make a marriage work is a shared belief in TheGospel and the single focus of goose-stepping for TheBrethren. Compatability Schmatability. Who needs it?

Because they are so family oriented, TSCC will keep you so busy running around and doing callings that your time to hate each other is minimized. And you thought they didn't care.

bc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a lot of it is the Mormon doctrine/culture
> is that compatibility, maturity, and experience
> aren't important for the success of the marriage.
>
> When I married at age 22 I pretty much figured
> that being "in love" and "righteous" were about
> the only requirements for a successful marriage -
> never mind that neither of our parents had
> successful marriages.
>
> There is just very little real teaching in the
> Mormon world of what it really takes to have a
> successful marriage. You hear a lot of platitudes
> like "never go to bed angry", "if you make God
> your first focus everything else will work out",
> etc.

> As it turns out "being in love" isn't that rare
> and isn't that good of an indicator that your
> marriage will work.

Truth and compassion aren't important, either. Only obedience and a few warm fuzzy feelings that are confirmation of them, and only occur within the one true restored church. Don't look elsewhere, you won't get that feeling anywhere else, take our word for it. It's rare. And confirmation of everything we say.

You dated 3 years? You must not has been living the law of chastity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 04:25PM by Samantha Baker.

Of course I wasn't. You can't be sure you are compatible with someone until you do the naughty....

Hey, you gotta test drive the car.

Most definitely!

Because the brainwashing has been successful.

<long sad sigh>

they are really, really lonely. It can be hard to make and keep real friends in Utah County, at least it was for me.

might have something to do with nookie.

only a guess there, of course

When I got married it was because we were at the point of having sex and it is less taboo in the culture to get married early than to have sex out of wedlock.

In retrospect, obviously, it was a terrible idea.

I've heard of people that had set their wedding plans and engagement to be a year away. Their church leaders would tell them, "not if you want to be married in the temple". Basically implying that they would "break down" and have sex sooner as the temptation would be too strong. I can attest to that, I was engaged for 7 months as a TBM, and resisting was extremely difficult. We managed to resist, wasn't without a great amount of trying and not wanting the guilt associated with it. Now I ask myself, what for? We wanted the wedding as soon as possible so we could get it on, so to speak.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 01:19PM by Mormoney.

So they can have sex without the guilt?

A few TBM's told me that they reason they got married at a very young age - sometimes instead of going on a mission -- was because they could have sex legitimately and "righteously."

Besides sex, the other reason they are in such a hurry to get married is that they've been brainwashed to do so ASAP when they reach 18, or for males, the moment they return from their mission.

For girls, it's also because the RMs all want fresh young 18 and 19 year olds. I've heard from many RMs that their leaders tell them if they are righteous enough, there will be a beautiful young virgin waiting for them. They see it as the reward for doing their mission well.

If the girls graduate from college without the MRS degree, heaven help them. The older they get as singles, the less desirable they are. The menfolk continue to focus on the 18 to 20 year old women and ignore the older ones.

In our mission the saying was "the harder you work, the better looking your wife." At least on my mission, there was never a comment on age.

That's pretty nauseating.

A member of the seventy said this in a fireside when I was in the MTC. He said a lot of the missionaries from his mission when he was MP must have been a lot harder workers than he thought based on how good looking their wives are.

is they don't know what else to do with themselves. I had no plans when I graduated from high school. I thought God was going to provide a man immediately--that was just the way things were supposed to go, wasn't it? That is what they told me at least. My friends all got married quickly without any kind of plan--and I had to find a way to survive single and I was looked upon as though there was something wrong with me. (It just occurred to me--I got a good job and I really liked being single except the nagging about getting married--I loved being on my own and independent--maybe the church doesn't want women to find that out.)

I hate to say it--but he sounds like someone my TBM daughter might like. She'd probably kill me for saying that or not--but the fact that he is "bigger"--she likes the bigger guys. I don't know why. She is an exercise freak, but she finds the bigger guys aren't as in need of being worshiped! My dad was also a big guy and reminded her of John Wayne--and that is what she wants. A manly man, actually.

But she is re-living my fun of being single in mormonism because she is too independent, too outspoken, and doesn't need a man to take care of her. Sure, she'd like one. It just kills me to watch it taking place just like it did for me.

The old bishop's daughter--who she is good friends with the whole family as he is the bishop who got her back into the church--the daughter met the guy the end of April. They are getting married this week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 01:57PM by cl2.

Marriage fixes every teenage insecurity in your life. Didn't you know that?

Oh, except the only few that are fixed by getting a back alley home loan at age 21/19 while in the employ of Hogi Yogi. And then cranking out kids simultaneously. And then defaulting on the loan. That makes life worth living.

At least for the spectators. I used to bring a tub of popcorn to my daily life in Logan. And then revel in being called out for not living right by people in $300,000 worth of debt at age 22. It's a pretty sweet culture, it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 03:05PM by flyboy21.

like I said, a lot of it is centered around Nookie.

My mo friend and I used to make fun of the culture to get married so young. It didn't even surprise me anymore after all the stories I heard. She was a commitment phobe and actually did break up with a guy at byu because he went shopping for engagement rings and she wasn't ready. Of course it was also "mutual" because the "spirit" told them it wasn't right.

She just got into a relationship two weeks before returning home a little over a month ago and when I talked to her she was asking all sorts of questions about being "in love" and just "knowing" that he was right, even about the pressures of physical stuff. I am seriously waiting for the ring already! He is visiting here soon so I can't wait to meet him. I sincerely hope that they are compatible if they are going to rush it.

It kills me because she is doing the same thing we made fun of others about! I want to say something so bad! I do congratulate her for getting to 22 without being married with a kid!

Then there was the poster on RfM a few years back who literally ran from the temple to their parents' home to get it on between the wedding and the reception.

They came out to quite an awkward scene; extended family all sitting in the living room, all having heard the headboard smack the wall and the bride yelling "Yes, yes, yes!"

T-Bone

They're horny and have a NEED TO BREED??

Its not just utah mormons, I've seen a ton of TX mormons do it too. I totally agree its about being horny and wanting to breed.

I know young couples who have admitted that it was just so they could have sex.

I'm sure sex plays a role.

But I think that since the idea of having a celestial marriage is the end all be all and having a large family is so important that the desire to marry as soon as possible is there.

In YW the leaders are all ususally young, married women with babies (that are just *so* cute). The leaders talk about their perfect lives and about how important temple marriage is. There are 8 YW values now, they added one a few years ago that basically boils down to virginity.

I hate it. I was a YW leader for a while and most of the girls I had in class were married before 21. I hope they have happy lives...

I'm a member in Orem right now and I have problems with this so called "Utah rush." I've even posted a rant or two about this myself. I'm of the opinion that if you really are being married for time and all eternity then what's 2, 5, or dare I say it, even TEN years spent ensuring it's done correctly out of that time and all eternity? In fact, you'll have that time and all eternity to populate an entire planet if you make the CK. If you ask me, Mormon Doctrine clearly points to making sure you marry the right person. Seems like a bunch of people in Utah would rather have sex with the first person they can(by marriage of course) than make sure they married the right person.

It's not just the young Utahns. My very TBM BIL divorced his first wife of 16 years - they married young, and cranked out 4 kids, all the while knowing his wife didn't WANT to be a mother, and remarried less than 4 months later just so he and new girlfriend could have sex! "Yeah, I think she's great, and we REALLY want to have sex" were his exact words.

I think the morg leaders know that a man, even a TBM RM, stands a good chance of breaking the LoC if he waits too long to have sex. Some may repent and stay but a lot would end up leaving and taking their tithing dollars with them because, honestly, did they really have a testimony to begin with? How strong is that testimony post-mish? Men just aren't as spirchul as the wimminfolk.

So...convince the young'uns that it's righteous obedience to the prophet, and God's will, that they get married right away and start crankin' out the kids. Now they've got him! That TBM wife and the kids will make sure he toes the line like a good little morgbot thus ensuring a lifetime of tithing and a fresh batch of mishies in twenty years.

The beauty of the plan is that the young couple, who are as horny as anyone else, don't have to worry about people thinking they got married just to have legal sex...they're merely demonstrating their pious obedience to the "brethren" as they put their trust in the Lord. Of course, they're screwing like crazed weasels two or three times a day too.

I have a Mormon roommate who moved to Provo to get married. In her words, "If I don't get married in three months then I'm going on a mission."

I think it's sad how their culture uses human capital to evaluate spiritual worth, and marriage is one of them. I don't ever want to judge myself based on their religious and cultural standards again. It's too materialistic and perfection-based. I can see why so many people in Utah County are depressed, addicted, and suicidal.

I'm sorry he's moving to Orem, and that he's Mormon, and that he believes marriage is a rite of passage to prestige. It isn't. I live in Orem and I'm exMormon. It's like living on an island full of cannibals--and I'm a vegetarian.

It's a great business and it is passed on by generations. At the age of 20 you start to wonder and feel the need to have sex with the person you LOVE and it's totally normal...you can enjoy it and be responsible at the same time. They want Mormons to get married, so they can also have sex without feeling guilty and have kids so Mormons continue to pay 10% to the church. Parents believe this, so will their kids and follow what they consider is the right thing to do. Sad! Some people need the church to control their lives because they do not have control over their own and it is totally fine because they need the help, but it is sad to see friends being brainwashed in their 20’s and have already 2 divorces. People….aren’t you smart enough to see what is right & wrong and determine that for yourself without having an organization on your butt all the time or having to questions everything or ask the bishop what to do? Seek the answers within your soul and just worry about doing good to yourself(Dont drink, dont smoke and yes people...I've seen a lot of obese Mormons but yet they forget that eating JUNK is also bad for your health...worse than having a glass of wine at lunch which is actually good for the heart),the people around you and your environment…be more spiritual!
You need to find a balance on everything and not take everything to the extreme! Religions want people to live in FEAR!
***There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see***