When DH and I were engaged our bishop recommended that we follow Dave Ramsey (financial guru). So, of course, since our bishop said it we bought the books and started listening. That was 11 years ago. For the most part we have followed his plan & are Dave Ramsey brainwashed.

Since leaving TSCC, and seeing it as the fraud it is, I have started reflecting on other areas of my life that I might have been manipulated into thinking is "the best and only way to do something." Dave Ramsey has me so scared to deter from "the plan" that I fear something finacially horrible will happen if I do, even though we are very responsible. Just like leaving TSCC, I feared that horrible things would start happening in my life. I do think he has great advice but honestly he has ruined me for thinking for myself and most mornings I want to kick him in the teeth. You lose a little trust in yourself after finding out that something you believed in was all lies and you bought it. So, just curious what others thoughts are on Dave and if you think he is right? Anyone else see the correlation between DR and TSCC?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 08:21PM by notanymore.

Ramsey is a fraud. He is laughing all the way to the bank.

If you have a little common sense you can do as well financially as you would by listening to his fear mongering and giving him your hard earned money.
He and Beck are siamese twins joined at the lips.

I can see how you would think that. He is very wealthy and so he tithes. Big deal Dave....you do what you are able and let others do the same. I can see benefits to being strict with your financial recovery if you are so in debt it will bury you in a yr. or two. But I do not see how eating beans and rice (as he says) forever will make a couple happy. I see the program as good but with an adjustment to the program that allows each of the partners to see that they can seriously accept. May take longer but you won't hate one another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 10:33PM by honestone.

I've never heard of him and i'm doing just fine.

I had the opportunity to listen to his show a number of times last year as I made the trip to my mom's deal with her estate. His advice is tough but it makes sense. If you've been sucked into the pit of debt by living beyond your means, you've got to make significant sacrifices to get out of it.

I don't see his advice as brainwashing. It's tough financial love. It's not necessarily the only way, either. But the people who call into his show are in serious straits. Recognizing you're deep in debt doesn't mean you have the discipline to try to get out of it on your own w/o a guide to follow.

My brother sent me through Daves program a year ago.

I wish I'd had it to follow during my TBM days, it would have helped me leave the TSCC far behind.

The TSCC with it's "pay your debts, but pay us first" kept me down for years.

There is no way I should have had so many children with the income we had.
At least with Ramsey I learned that if you are getting a big fat tax return each year you actually have an income problem, not enough!

The TSCC had us all believing TBM mothers that to work outside the home was only for 'luxuries" and we were evil mothers if we did it.

Yet my husband was very comfortable with us always on church food, while he bought all kinds of frivolous small things for himself. The things he justified buying for himself "were on sale" and "he really really wanted them" added up to our children having one pair of shoes...no Sunday shoes, in fact when my eldest boy was able to start making his own money from odd jobs at age 11, that was the first thing he bought...not a toy, but Sunday dress shoes!

My husband crabbed at me about wearing the same dress year after year to church, but wouldn't go without his little geegaw things so there was money for one simple dress for me.

Even a new summer short set size three, for our daughter which would only cost $8 at Wal-Mart was too expensive!!

We could never save for anything because everything was "an emergency".

Ramsey teaches how to have an emergency fund and save for what you want.

There are only two things that really perturb me about Ramsey:

One is do not buy coins!! Silver and Gold coins are not a good return and in a disaster people want water and food, not coins! He is right, but I looked into savings plans a few years back found the return too small for the short turn profit I wanted if I needed to liquidate quickly for 'emergency"

But luckily I was TRAINED BY AN EXPERT in coins and had invested in a few. I was able to pay my rent with coins I'd bought at $17 and cashed in at $34! Big return on investment, but I was trained on what coins to buy and resell.

The other thing Ramsey worries about is schools that teach a theory called evolution. I don't care. I've dug up Dinosaur Bones and Trilobites from the Cambrian era. I know the earth is a lot older than the current Christian community wants to preach, but that's his beef. No big deal.

Ramsey is pretty solid and his program is NOT A RIP OFF!

It is tailored for people who have never pulled in the reins on their spending and have never been trained on how to plan what to do with their money and then do it!

It has saved me a lot of grief because it helped me quickly see through gold digging would be relationships., men who would try to talk me out of what money I have, claiming they who have no money and live in debt as a lifestyle know more than me about saving and using money!

After you come out of TSCC you jump at lot of shadows. I know I can't stand to be inside churches in general because I find religion suffocating,but Ramsey and his program help and are not a fraud. In fact even though he is a proclaimed follower of Christ, he is not prejudiced.

I've heard him time and time again give good money counsel to people who are trying to get along financially who are living together and not married, he never once tells them they're living in sin or any other way condemning! That's unusual for a Christian! He just helps them manage their money!

I love Dave Ramsey's program! Before DH and I took the 13-week course, we'd spent our entire married life in poverty, fighting about money, and we nearly broke up several times. I had no hope it would ever get any better.

My experiences with DH were similar to MormonObserver above. He spent whatever he pleased on himself and his kids, while my kids and I went without. He blamed me for our poverty, but was terrible at managing money -- and very secretive!

The classes taught us how to understand our relationship with money and each other, how to do a budget without killing each other in the process, how to get out of debt (and avoid debt), how to invest well and wisely, and how to live (even on a very small income) so that we are no longer worried about losing our house, getting the utilities shut off, etc.

Dave Ramsey breaks everything down into simple, easily understandable "baby steps" that aren't intimidating. He provides tools to help you do the baby steps and, step by step, turn your financial life around.

I did not detect ANY fear or brainwashing going on at any time. Instead, when DH and I had our first-ever budget summit and didn't end up screaming at each other, I felt a big surge of confidence.

We gave our high school graduates his kit, and they think it's great, too. My kids recently received a very large inheritance from a deceased family member (who didn't give me anything, sadly...). We watched the Dave Ramsey DVDs with them. Every kid is now investing in mutual funds, avoiding student loans, putting money in savings, and budgeting wisely with their inheritances.

The only things I don't like are his strident Christianity and his sometimes annoying attitudes about women.

Quote > The only things I don't like are his strident Christianity and his sometimes annoying attitudes about women.

Maybe I'm just offended too easily, but that was enough to make me not want to read any more of his writings.

(I'm not into the Suze cult either, BTW.)

I love Suze Orman and have followed her advice. She can be tough, but she also takes human nature into account.

Her philosophy is:

People First
Then Money
Then Things.

I don't follow Ramsey, but sacrificing your life and family to madly save money will only hurt you in the long run. You cannot live on a starvation diet, and you should reward yourself for working hard and saving. Family vacations and time together are important. Just as you have limited money, you have limited time together.

Yes, I like Suze, but what I meant was that I don't hang on her very word, like it's the gospel truth. She's done & said things I disagree with.

Some friends of ours who follow/ed his teachings religiously are currently in a bad financial spot. Sure, they were out of debt except for their house and potentially student loans, had never taken out a credit card because those are evil, even for emergency use, but he quit his job last fall with out having another job lined up first because it was stressing him out too much. Then, yes, he did get a new job before their savings ran out a few months later, but the job paid less than he was making before, not quite enough to cover their bills. Then he quit at the beginning of the summer to follow the lure of the "sell our security systems and earn big bucks!" A month or so later he had quit that and was with out a job and income. He has his degree yet is currently working as a call center rep (the kind of thing that high school and college kids do to work their way through school) because he needed a job.

FWIW, I'm a finance guy and have been a fan of Dave's for years.

along with Gail VanOxlade. They've been motivational, and have each given practical advice and wisdom.

But, like any "gurus" you gotta take them with a grain of salt.

I'm not going to call Suze and ask her "if I can afford it". Because at my age, she'll say NO to taking a vacation to Europe, unless you have 500k to a million in retirement. I'm not planning such a trip, because I already KNOW I can't afford it right now. But if I wait until I have 500K, I'll NEVER go. My view is that you can replace spent money, but if you waste your life, it's gone forever.

The same things applies to the Ramsey program. I'm not going take Dave Ramsey too seriously and live on "beans and rice", either, although they are fine sometimes. Nor am I going to sell our second car, or turn off the cable. Life isn't all about money. I'm willing to make a few sacrifices and work hard. But I'm not going to give up important quality of life elements for extreme frugality. Because you can't get your life back after your kids are grown, or after retirement.

But I have learned some good things, and he's motivating and entertaining.

Everybody has to figure out what works best for them. These advisors are just people like the rest of us. They've figured out something that works for some people, and entertains us, and SELLS. And I am bothered somewhat about the element of FEAR that Dave and Suze both have in their program. . . . about getting 8 months of income saved in case of an emergency. Sure, that would great to have, but most people aren't going to be able to do that anytime soon. Because most people actually need to LIVE on most of their income. Even if people could save 20% of their income, it would take them 40 months to save that up, if nothing bad happened in the meantime. Oh, yeah, and be sure to fund your retirement and get out of debt at the same time.

Oh yeah, and the Christian aspect of Dave's show? I just ignore it.

Fear-induced brain washing? He's a guy with a radio show and a point of view. Some people handle debt just fine and never get in over their head. Other people find debt to be strangling. There's amazing freedom to be found in waking up each day and realizing you have no long-term debt.

Hardly any brainwashing here. My radio has these little buttons I use to change the channel.

no

and was shocked he recommends NO mortgage and NO credit cards and pay cash for cars. Well, umm, this will put your credit rating in the tank. Try to get a loan, any loan with NO credit in this economy. He uses his debit card for everything. Well, when you have millions in your account, no problem. I would keep two cards at a minimum to keep your credit score. Just use common sense and pay off every month.

As well as the thinking that "well, if the bible has a few esoteric verses about debt - then we must get out of it at all costs" that is also laughable.

If you have a few reasonable pieces of credit (mortgage, car, emergency credit card), and you pay your bills on time - your credit score will be fine. And you are in no way "worshiping at the altar of the great FICO," as that ridiculous man claims.

You don't have to pay for cash for everything but neither should you pay with credit for ridiculous things (and carry the balance).

There are plenty of financial advisors who are reasonable. But nothing sells like extreme positions.

Some people can't handle moderation. For some of us, the cold-turkey, no-exceptions approach helps us get our heads on straight and tackle our financial issues as fast as possible.

No, I wouldn't want to sacrifice my Starbucks for the next 30 years, BUT listening to Dave made me aware of my own unconscious spending pattern and my attitudes about money. Better yet, he gave me some very effective tools to change. DH and I are getting good results using his program.

I love his quote, "Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else." Basically live frugally now, so you can enjoy your money stress free later. He tells people to live on rice and beans to help them get out of debt, but after that he talks of the importance of enjoying your money. He never discourages family vacations, boats, vacation homes, except for people that can't afford it. He does talk about balancing spending, saving and giving. I am a big Dave Ramsey believer, although with everything, I make a few adjustment and don't just follow everything blindly.

But if he's a fraud, somebody please clue me in before I open an IRA.

T-Bone