I had dinner the other night with a lapsed Mormom friend of mine (who lurks on RfM but as of yet hasn't posted, although he says he wants to once he figures out how to use his new computer).

He informed me that his hometeacher recently (meaning the end of November) left a voice message that the ward hometeaching program was being changed in ways to, well, clean up its act.

That change, the hometeacher relayed in the message, was that on occasion the hometeacher would invite all his assigned familes to go to the local wardhouse, where they would meet up, then clean it up.

My friend said this sparkling new wrinkle in the hometeaching program would mean that instead of 12 monthly visits to the homes of an assigned family, twice a year or so the hometeacher would dutifully assemble at the wardhouse with the sheep placed under his care for an edifying experience in spiritual sudsing.

My friend said that his hometeacher pitched the new progam by describing it as an opportunity for "service."

My friend was flabbergasted by the news and, just to make sure, contacted members of his extended family in the area to see if, in fact, this was the Mormon Church's new approach to hometeaching. He said he was informed that, indeed, this wardhouse worker bee Janitors-for-Jesus initiative was being implemented as a periodic replacement during the calendar year for the traditional hometeaching visit to family homes.

I asked my friend what he thought of this development. With an irritated look on his face and in a slightly raised voice (we were at a restaurant), he replied that his personal idea of service was not to clean the property of "a multi-billion dollar corporation."

He added that his wife's reaction was likewise less than enthusiastic. She noted that this meant people bringing along their kids--which meant that they would simply run around out of control. (His wife works in the Young Woman's program, so couldn't be described as a slouch).

I asked my friend how he responded to his hometeacher's invitation to join him and the other assigned families in an inspiring adventure of group wardhouse cleaning.

He said he simply ignored this inner-cleansing call to service. He also said that he didn't expect any resistance from his hometeacher, describing the HT as a laidback kind of guy who, when he made his visits to their home, only knocks, doesn't come in and sometimes brings along goodies.

There you have it--another prophetic initiative to protect Morg profitability.

Come to church, brothers and sisters, and scrub the bathrooms.

Hometeaching: Isn't it about slime?



Edited 43 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 11:40AM by steve benson.

if the brethren don't secretly harbor a wish to destroy the church. How many members are going to just say enough when presented with this request?

Keep it up boys. Keep it up.

Lapsed Mormon friend's "personal idea of service was not to clean the property of 'a multi-billion dollar corporation.'" Yes, most members even would agree with that statement--but would not dare to say so, openly.

Instead, most of the sheeple obediently will submit... while the leaders plan the next thing to dump on them.

So when are they going to sink the boat and put ward house cleaning on a temple recommend???

Seriously! I was thinking the exact same thing. Worked for tithing and the WoW.

Allegedly he was a carpenter with a job on the side washing away sins.

An excellent comment. Thanks

Dentist,

I know a dentist's educational path doesn't require much analytical training and most dentists I know aren't the most intellectually curious people, but did you happen to notice the name and purpose of this website? Your questions and assumptions about duty to the Mormon corporation, church attendance, being lazy, and God being in charge of it all are presumptuous and obtuse given the purpose of this site and its intended audience.

You might want to read more about what the site is about, spend time reading some of the people's stories, and explore the other sections on this site before you self-righteously criticize the people posting on the forums. You also might want to visit Richard Packham's site and read his story. http://home.teleport.com/~packham/

Finally, if you are interested in strengthening your or other people's testimonies of the Mormon corporation, this is probably not the best site for that purpose. You might try LDS.org. I hear they have content that is more closely aligned with your level of intellectual curiosity and your desire to be a dutiful corporate citizen. Happy drilling and filling, drilling and filling, drilling and filling, drilling and filling...makes Jack a dull boy...

The stupid "multi-billion dollar corporation" just keeps getting stupider and stupider.

TG

If so, how long before someone brings gasoline?

"For the day cometh that the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them who dwelleth thereon, by whom it is dressed, who now receiveth blessings from God, shall be cleansed with fire." Hebrews 6:7 JST

I told him under no terms would I clean toilets.. He was shocked when I told him if they can build a 4 billion dollar mall they can afford to keep the custodians which is now an unemployed man in our ward.

Jesus wants me for a janitor?

That's telling him, brother/sister!

Now here's my idea (speaking as a non-Mormon who almost got sucked (suckered?) into it--replace the HT with the Bishop, and make him bring his wife & kiddies--that way he can BOTH (a) set a good example to the ward, and (b) spend some time with his family (from what I understand, bishops don't get much family time...).

Or does the above sound like science fiction? :)

. . . does that mean Jesus is Satan?

Sounds like a comfortable fit in Mormon theology. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 11:49AM by steve benson.

I've said before, my aunt and uncle who are in their 70s--who both hold jobs because they lost an big investment a few years ago--clean the conference center and the temple in their area in SLC. They moved back here about 5 years ago and have lived out of state for almost 40 years. BUT they can't get tickets to GC in the conference center.

My reactivated TBM daughter, gets tickets every conference (she is close to many local leaders)--so in order for my aunt and uncle to get tickets to the place they clean, they have to go through my 25-year-old daughter (she is going to try to get them some in the spring).

I want to believe I'd tell them h*ll no if they did this to me--but when I was TBM, I probably would have done it, or maybe not . . . didn't attend the temple much. Oh, maybe I wouldn't have after all. I refused to HOE BEETS for the church farm. I grew up hoeing beets and my father who didn't allow us to ever tell him, "no"--told me I was doing it and I said, "NO I'M NOT!" I can't believe that the members go along with this sh*t.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 11:49AM by cl2.

Boy, have you not heard? There is a temple in South Jordon that is now cleaned by the membership!

TBM divorced DIL abandonned her kids in order to clean the bloody stupa (Indian shrines that dot the Indian landscape) and had not supervised the children into having them bathe and put on clean clothes. When our poor son got the kids for visitation, they were waring the same clothes as they were a few days before and were dirty and one of the kids had impetigo! He was crying as he was telling us us about the horrors!

Yeah, mormonism has NOTHING to do with families! PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT~!

Maybe they can skip town with all the loot and divide it up among the faithful who stick it out.

This is one great way to increase the ward's "Do Not Contact" List.

Members will not only not want the Home Teachers coming around, they won't want to BE Home Teachers themselves. The only thing worse than being asked to clean toilets, is to have to ask others to do it!

Clean buildings AND pay 10%! Boy, those blessing opportunities never stop.

I think one thing that really irritates many Mormons is when others don't have to pay and clean yet have a higher quality of life. All they can do is repeat the mantra, "I'll be blessed in the next life for doing this, they are getting their blessings now." Yeah, riiigggghtt.

Imagine the mental gymnastics it would take to clean slobbery Cheerios off the walls and toilets AND paying money. What a bunch of patsies.

What will happen is that families just won't show up, leaving the hapless HT to do it himself.

I've haven't heard anything about this yet in the mission field where I live but I'll sure keep my ears peeled! 8-O

and members will be called to shine his shoes.

to be able to serve when this subject came up.

They think the money saved will go to help the poor instead. They were so excited about this new example of inspired leadership in Mormonism.

No kidding, it left me wondering yet again just how far they could be pushed before they publicly registered pain or disgust.

Dudes, how hard is it to clean a toilet and vacuum the floor? The church cleaning "service" is not that hard. When you have 500 people in a ward, 3 wards per building, each family seriously gets asked to help out like once a year. How hard it that? One hour of cleaning a year?? Don't you spend at least that each week in your own house? I live in Alaska, and we do the church cleaning here too. I lived in Nebraska, and we did it there....including both temples in Anchorage and Omaha. It's not about the "multi-billion dollar company saving money from not paying a janitor", it's about not being lazy.

I'm a dentist and my employees clean our office every day. Cleaning has to be done folks. Duh.

Also, I have a friend who's dad is the minister at their protestant church here in Alaska. She tells me all the time that they (the members of their church) get together to clean their building. It's just what church-goers do. Don't any of you go to church??? I understand you are ex-mormons but do you not attend any church?

Also, it isn't a church-wide home teaching initiative to clean the church. I imagine that is just what that ward did to organize the cleaning schedule.

This website is funny to me. People get offended about the silliest things.

<I'm a dentist and my employees clean our office every day. Cleaning has to be done folks. Duh.>

There folks, right there "employees"...

Ok..."Employees". Yes..."Members" do the cleaning. You sign up for it when you join the church (it meaning participating in the stupid simple things the "Church" asks you to do, like clean a building)...do your duty, just like you do your job. If your employer at your work asks you to do a job don't you do it?

Are Mormons the only ones who think God is in charge? (And no I'm not opening up a can of worms by saying God needs me to clean a toilet at his building and if I don't do it I'll get "fired.")

Aren't we all subordinate to God (or Ala, Krishna, whatever you want to call It), regardless of what church we belong to? Why are Mormons the only ones picked on for actually following the direction of their beliefs?

Dentist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are Mormons the only
> ones picked on for actually following the
> direction of their beliefs?

Mormonism is a psychologically and emotionally damaging belief system, as is the belief system of all cults. If the direction of your belief is focused in the toilet, then I applaud your sense of direction, because that is where Joseph Smith's crap should have been placed in the beginning.

You are the only ones picked on? You are a dentist with an education? You sound like my middle school students. Take the time to do some other research and you will find that other cults get the smack down, too. I am here at this site, because I was foolish enough to have joined the morg back in the day. "Why's everybody always pickin' on me?!"

Leave the mantras at the door and communicate as an adult.

Glad2B Out



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2011 04:40AM by glad2bout.

Dentist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just like you do
> your job. If your employer at your work asks you
> to do a job don't you do it?

And there ya go - if my employer asks me to do something, I do because I'm getting money for it. However, not even I clean bathrooms any longer because I have a steward who does that, and I have not worked for years to become a captain to go back to cleaning toilets, and if my employer decided to cut cost and get rid of the steward and ask me to clean, I'd laugh my ass off and go to another company.

The fact is, TSCC spends billions on a mall, but can't employ people to clean their buildings. That speaks for itself.

Are you really saying all those BIC 8 year olds are voluntarily joining the church? Because they want to clean the toilets when they grow up?

They are told they want to go to the temple.
They are told they will clean the toilets.
They are told they are in the only true church.
There really isn't any "choice" in the matter.

Not everyone is a convert.

Historically, as in prior to lately, there was a cleaning crew. Now the members must clean, but the "savings" of not paying cleaners is not passed on to the members. There is no reward for going above and beyond what they thought they signed up for, just more busywork for the busy little mo drones.

There is plenty of money to ease the busywork. Mos already devote more time to their church than quite a few other religions require of their members. Now they should scrub shit too?

Dentist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>People get offended about the silliest things.

The mormon mantra is chanted again.

If you are a dentist, you exhibit ignorance despite being educated. Five hundred people in a ward, of which far fewer than 100 attend. And because fewer morgbots are paying tithing, the corporation has resorted to eliminating the overhead. Not a bad move by a business, yet the dudes who attend the cult get left holding the mop. It isn't about not being lazy, which you seem to think your fellow cultists are, it is about money and the morg keeping it in SLC.

And because fewer people, fortunately, are morgbots, that one hour a year figure you cited is inaccurate. Who are you trying to fool? Why are you not being honest?

One positive result of my leaving the cult of mormonism is viewing other man made fantasy schemes with a questioning eye. No, I don't attend church, because it is made up fantasy rubbish, just as mormonism is.

Dude, it's time you started living in the land of reality.

Glad2B Out

Enjoy your land of reality. I'm happy.

And my figure was accurate...of those 500, more like 150-250 attend...multiply that by 3 (3 wards) and you have let's say 520 people doing the cleaning (and yes, kids can help too...they know how to work a vacuum). 52 weeks a year...10 people per week (which is way high, usually ends up being 4 or 5 people), and it takes an hour.

Point is, cleaning the church is not the sign of conformity, or lack of individuality. Yes, it is good business sense. What's wrong with that? There is no doubt the Church has to function as a corporation...difference is that the President of the Church doesn't pay himself a million dollar salary like the CEO of a major corporation.

So ya, enjoy your reality.

And it makes good business sense for a church to spend money on mall development.

Dentist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There is no doubt the Church has to function as a
> corporation...difference is that the President of
> the Church doesn't pay himself a million dollar
> salary like the CEO of a major corporation.
>

How do you know what salary Monson pays himself? Mormonsm is all about money shrouded in secrecy.

Sorry, didn't realize this was a cult-basing site. I was wrong. Go ahead and bash on us with the rest of the cults. No, Mormons are not the only ones that are picked on...everyone is. I just was reading various posts on here and they were all directed at Mormons...so again, sorry.

Sounds like Mr. Dentist is not following the explicit directions of his 'bosses' by frequenting such nasty places like exmormon.org.

So, Mr. church-corporation loving dentist, why are you really here? What has made you question your committment to your 'employers' enough to drop by?

Look deep inside, and you'll notice that there's something making you uncomfortable with your chosen religion.

We can help you with that.

And since you're into 'business sense', here's a tip. I know how you can increase your income 10% instantly...guaranteed. I only ask for 1% as payment. Details to follow.

One should consider his thoughts before allowing him to work on his or her teeth.

Let me get this straight, Dentist. Your employees pay you to work for you and clean the building?

I work for me now, but if a former employer were to lay someone off and expect me to pick-up the duties, I would be inclined to demand a raise. Should that not happen I would most certainly decline my employer's less-than-generous offer.

I frequent a local movie theater. I pay to see movies there. Never been asked to clean the place.

As a matter of fact, I frequent many establishments that require cash for services rendered. Can't recall a single such institition asking me to clean its building.

You pay the cult 10% of your gross income and willingly clean its toilets on demand. That's certainly not "lazy" but I would call it stupid.

Got a deal for you Dentist. Pay me twenty-bucks and I'll let you clean my toilets.

Deal?

Didn't think so.

Timothy

No, no, no, not his *employees*, he demands his *clients* clean up the place afterward. Not just ask, but "calls" them to do so.

If they refuse, he can have a Court of.. er, Root Canal of Love with all of the high-priests.. er, dental hygienists, and they can determine by the prompting of the spirit.. er, novacaine, if this person really is worthy to have their teeth cleaned in his office.

He also requires all his patients to lay back in the chair with a baker's hat, green apron and a sash and repeat "Pay Lay Ale" three times with half their jaw numb.

Any patients who announce their intention to no longer frequent his establishment will be criticized for being "offended", and he sends out a pamphlet with the three top leaders of the American Dental Association asking them to consider coming back and that it is a local matter that will be handled by his area leaders.

Then he'll b*tch to all his remaining suckers.. er, clients about how some people just "can't leave his office alone". And that they play with their little factories too much and don't floss afterwards.

Dentist,

This is Recovery from Mormonism so of course the posts are directed at the Mormon Church/people. I'm not Mormon (Thank you GOD) but my family has been "offended" by Mormons too many times than I can count; hence my involvement here. The majority of RFM members need to express their frustrations and ask for guidance from hundreds of other people that have flocked from the LDS faith. What is your purpose here; leave them alone! Although I do understand that stalking, shaming, controlling, and judging are part of your training.

If you're so inclined, you tell everyone when enough is enough when it comes to giving to this Church. 10% tithing, callings, constant volunteer-ism, etc...Is that already not enough to ask of people who have families, jobs and other obligations?

By the way, it's simply pathetic if you force your employee's to actually deep clean your office when paying a cleaning service is affordable and simple. I guess you've learned from the best that greed has no boundaries.

It's baffling to me that members of the Cult do not see the truth that is easily available at the click of a mouse.

...most churches publish their budgets. You can look many of them up online. Notice the sections devoted to church custodians and maintenance. So no, what you and your friend do is not the norm.

Sometimes church members do once or twice a year "spruce ups" that do not involve vacuuming or cleaning toilets.

But if you want to donate 10% of your income to a church that has a miserable record of charitable donations to others, but has a *great* record of non-church related real estate investment, feel free. No one here is going to stop you.

Oh, and dentist, why does so much tithed money end up going to the COB? Something like 95%? (Since you're a dentist I'm going to assume that you have a high enough calling to know exactly how much your ward gathers/sends out/gets back. If not, consult your friendly ward clerk.) This *definitely* isn't normal. Other denominations spend most of their money on their own needs and send a small fraction of donated funds to church headquarters. Where is all of your money going?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2011 10:10AM by summer.

Yes, cleaning needs to be done. It also needs to be done right. This move by your stupid leaders is going to backfire as hugely as their coverups of abusers and molestors has.

I'd like to say this to Dentist. How about if you rinse and spit, you smug Mormon?

Dentist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> difference is that the President of the Church doesn't pay himself a million dollar salary like the CEO of a major corporation.

What does he pay himself? It would be interesting to know.

I would say Monson's compensation exceeds half a million. Look at all the benefits he gets, free everything, first class travel, his condo remodel project alone was like a half million recently.

But of course we will never know for sure because they are hiding where they put all their money. The best we can do is figure "by their fruits ye shall know them." $4 billion mall, luxury condos, tons of real estate development, great and spacious buildings, etc.

Each ward sends hundreds of thousands of dollars in tithing to SLC yet only receives back maybe 1% to run their ward budgets.

What are the big boys hiding that they refuse to reveal where all the money goes?

It's his assertion that there's a difference between LDS corp and another corporation.

join in the cleaning, or just expect his employees to?